r/battletech • u/StatsPilot • 8h ago
Tabletop Classic Tabletop Long Range lobber preference
My group is playing an Amaris War era campaign. The good guys are naturally the SLDF.
For the next game, it's recommended to either bring speed or range. My question is: what would the advantage be to bringing an Archer over a Catapault? The archer has LRM 20s to the Catapaults LRM 15s, but not even enough heat sinks to shoot and move. Both are the same speed, but the Catapault has jump jets.
I turn to the wisdom of the crowd if I might be missing something.
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u/AGBell64 8h ago edited 7h ago
Catapult has slightly less ammo endurance and armor but the weapon layout, low ammo, and jump jets let you do a grasshopper impression once you bin out the missiles. If you can get your hands on an SLDF refit of the archer they are quite good
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u/AGBell64 7h ago
Now, if assaults are in the table my preference is gonna be a Longbow or a Royal Stalker. The 3Fb is an absolutely solid brick of a fire support assault that basically doubles the long and short range firepower of a Catapult
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u/StatsPilot 7h ago
I wish! We are limited to heavies and below. We can win an Assault if we get enough XP
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u/AGBell64 7h ago
If you're limited to heavies but you can do sldf royals then I'd go for the Archer 100%. The royal Cat is nice but 2Rb is very hard hitting, durable, and runs ice cold
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u/StatsPilot 7h ago
Looks like for Royals, it's medium and below.
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u/AGBell64 7h ago
Well if you're stuck with non-royal heavies I'd suggest seeing if you can get your mits on a Kintaro. If your lance is investing in missiles without streak/artemis guidance heavily then the Narc beacons it packs let you do some very devious stuff.
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u/StatsPilot 6h ago
Kintaro we have available, but only the 19. Im not sure if it's fast enough at 5/8. My fast choice was going to be the Phoenix Hawk PXH-2 to get the Gaurdian ECM
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u/mermster 8h ago
Maybe the Archer is a bit more of a that at long range due to the large lasers?
I do love jumping though, I'd probably take the catapult.
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u/trappedinthisxy MechWarrior (editable) 7h ago
Large Lasers? You rocking a Kurita model?
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u/Magical_Savior NEMO POTEST VINCERE 7h ago
If the Royal Catapult is on the table, I'll take it, no question. I think I'd still take it over the Royal Archer, just for BV efficiency. Fists are nice, but the Catapult is a scythe.
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u/spazz866745 6h ago
The catapult is ussually a better pick in my eyes although its somewhat variant dependent. The c1 catapult can defend itself in close and effectively lob lrms but only for 8 turns. The 2r archer gets a bit better ammo with 12 turns of lrm at the cost of having to hold an lrm every other turn. Theoretically it gets you the same firepower on average 30 missiles every turn or 40 then 20 wich average out (40+20)/2=30. So then it becomes a question of self defense and jump versus ammo. I personally lean towards the catapult. That said if you have access to the longbow 8C its probably the be all end all of intro tech lrm spam.
Same firepower and ammo as the Archer but with sufficient heat syncing.
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u/PsyavaIG Magistracy of Canopus 6h ago
I'm a Catapult enthusiast.
Jump Jets for positioning to enable later turn turreting, MLs for clean up late in the match once the missiles are out or everything is balled and within range.
Push the heat higher if you have a perfect shot with good mods, jump away to cool down
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u/Metaphoricalsimile 6h ago
The Archer is significantly more armored and has more ammo than a Catapult, but IMO the regular ol Catapult CLPT-C1 is one of the best IntroTech mechs anyway.
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u/Attaxalotl #1 ProtoMech Fan 8h ago
If the map is rough, take the Catapult, if not, Archer
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u/StatsPilot 7h ago
What's driving your preference for the archer, if I can ask?
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u/Attaxalotl #1 ProtoMech Fan 6h ago
Archer has more Dakka, and the Catapult’s JJs aren’t needed on easy terrain.
Hell, I’d suggest taking the Archer if you know you can just stand it in one spot all game, even if the map is rough.
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u/Electrical_Catch9231 Proud Capellan Dirt-Farmer 8h ago
Personally, I like the catapult, because you can jump in and commit with your medium lasers once your ammo runs dry, or beforehand if need be.
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u/1001WingedHussars Gauss enjoyer 8h ago
The archer variant with 4 light PPCs and two LRM 20 racks slaps. Sure it only moves 3/5 but when you can reach out and touch basically everyone on a mapsheet, it doesnt really matter.
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u/AGBell64 7h ago
I think you're probably thinking of the 9M which is pretty decent but unfortunately for OP:
My group is playing an Amaris War era campaign
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u/jaqattack02 7h ago
Why would you bring either of them when you can grab a Thunder Hawk and lob hypersonic metal slugs at them instead?
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u/StatsPilot 7h ago
We have a set list to pick from and Thunder Hawk didn't make the cut sadly. I do agree though, direct fire magnetics are the way
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u/jaqattack02 7h ago
Of those choices though, I'd probably take the Catapult. It's at least got the 4 MLs facing the right direction as backup weapons.
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u/Metaphoricalsimile 6h ago
If the Archer didn't put its two front-facing lasers in the arms it would actually want to use its famous battlefists in close combat, but as-built two lasers and a kick is usually going to beat two punches. It's really not as optimized as people think it is. I think it's just rare for an IntroTech mech to actually have full armor, and it also looks very good, so it makes people feel good.
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u/135forte 5h ago
Yes, the lasers are the backup. We definitely don't use our 4/6/4 to close to brawling range with the LRMs being something to fire on the way in . . .
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u/Anastrace You got ravens in my outworlds 7h ago
I like the archer personally, I've had to wade in punching a few times. I saw the ARC-2Rb looks nice and era specific
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u/PharmaDan 7h ago
Both are pretty decent, especially if you got the Royal Archer.
Honestly Id go for the Archer cause of the Battlefists. Punching and potentially double tapping the enemy head and picking stuff up is useful. What variant are you using?
That being said the Catapult does have a significant punch with its lasers and the jump jets are great for repositioning or rougher terrain.
Either one is a good mech, it just depends on the map and your preferences for when the ammo is gone.
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u/WestRider3025 Canopian Queerasser 7h ago
Catapult. They both average out to about the same damage per turn when you take into account the Archer's breaks for cooling, but the Cat stays more consistent, and is much better at brawling with its lasers once the missiles run out.
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u/135forte 5h ago
Catapult is fast for a heavy at 4/6/4 (and isn't exactly slow by medium standards) and has respectable fire power at all ranges.
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u/Several-Feeling3409 4h ago
Does the Archer get the Star League tech? If so, a Royal Archeec with double HS and Artemis is pretty much fire support perfection
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u/StatsPilot 4h ago
We are supposed to just use stock mech from the TROs, so I am limited to the 2R
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u/EyeStache Capellan Unseen Connoisseur 4h ago
Here's the best way to look at it:
The Archer is designed to spend 12 rounds dumping LRMs at enemies as they advance towards their position, then run directly towards them and kick the hell out of them while using their medium lasers to shoot anything in front of and behind them. They have enough armour and enough mobility to do this pretty easily.
The Catapult, on the other hand, spends 8 turns dumping LRMs into things, then becomes a mobile nuisance, jumping behind enemies and putting a quartet of lasers into their spines, then jumping away.
It depends on what you like to do, honestly.
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u/_Thorshammer_ WHM-6D > your mech 8h ago
I'd go Cat - if the LRM ammo runs dry or a fast mover gets close the Cat has the medium lasers and JJ to make it less of a target.