r/hotas • • Sep 03 '20

considering your first HOTAS? Read me!

598 Upvotes

[last edit 01/07/2024]

Welcome to r/hotas!

If you're considering your first HOTAS (Hands On Throttle and Stick) setup, you've come to the right place. This guide will help you make an informed decision.

If you are instead looking for product reviews, I publish my articles here: HOTAS/HOSAS/SIMPIT Reviews

Introduction

This subreddit is managed by u/spliffa and u/ddrake1984. If you need assistance with anything not covered in this post, please reach out to us via private message, and we will try to assist you.

This guide is published and pinned for the benefit of new potential HOTAS buyers. The publisher of this article has first-hand experience with real aircraft flight controls and computer flight controls across a wide range of manufacturers, used for playing in flight simulation.

Purpose

This guide aims to assist first-time buyers in making an educated decision when purchasing their first joystick, throttle, and other flight control peripherals.

The Problem

With a growing number of HOTAS products on the market, it can be challenging to identify the best options. Products vary widely in:

  • Price
  • Features
  • Customer support

Additionally, products have a wide range of:

  • Costs
  • Features
  • Support via customer interactions and product patches and updates

The Budget

Whether you're looking for a budget-friendly option or the top-tier products, this guide will categorize recommendations into five budget ranges:

For those who prefer to build their own with a bit of knowledge and skills, check out our Discord server or visit this subreddit: r/HotasDIY.

Budget Ranges

Note: All prices will be listed in U.S. Dollars (Even though I am Australian, USD is the easiest to base value from)

  • Entry-Level ($10 to $100)
  • Novice-Tier ($100-$200)
  • Mid-Tier ($200-$300)
  • Advanced-Tier ($300-$400)
  • Expert-Tier / Top-Tier: This is the very best you can buy as a consumer with a lot of money.

Note: Top-tier does not include what a company or industry could or would purchase. This article is not tailored for that, therefore this is out of scope.

The Companies / The Manufacturers / The Vendors

I will list many companies/manufacturers/vendors (all the same) and the products that they offer. However, this post is not an in-depth review of the products. Please read product reviews for that level of detail and information.

The products will be listed to give you an idea of what is available within each range, and at the end, I will list the recommendation for each budget range.

Best Joystick (Base + Grip)

  • Entry-Level ($10 to $100): Thrustmaster T.16000
  • Novice-Tier ($100-$200): WINWING Ursa Minor
  • Mid-Tier ($200-$300): WINWING Orion 2 Base + WINWING F16 Grip
  • Advanced-Tier ($300-$400): WINWING Orion 2 Base + WINWING F16 Grip, or VKB Gunfighter Mk4 Base + Space Combat Edition Grip
  • Expert-Tier / Top-Tier: FSSB (Force Sensing Stick Base) TIANHANG F16 PRO Base + TIANHANG F-16 Grip, or FFB (Force Feedback) VPForce RHINO Base + TIANHANG A-10C Grip or TIANHANG F/A-18 Grip

Question: Why was the FFBeast not listed as the best FFB?

Answer: Simply put, its value comparison has not been validated by me. The available information from reviews is scarce, making it difficult to ascertain its value. Additionally, the community is mostly non-native English speaking, making it difficult to track and follow the content. Therefore, I have decided that there is not enough evidence to claim it is better than the VPForce RHINO. Based on my own experience, I do not consider it superior until proven otherwise.

Since this post is focused on first-time buyers, I feel it's already quite lengthy and would confuse anyone wanting to debate the matter.

Best Throttle (Base + Grip)

  • Entry-Level ($10 to $100): Thrustmaster TWCS
  • Novice-Tier ($100-$200): Thrustmaster TWCS, or WINWING Ursa Minor with Z-extension
  • Mid-Tier ($200-$300): WINWING Orion 2 Base + WINWING F-15E Grip, or WINWING Orion 2 Base + WINWING F/A-18 Grip
  • Advanced-Tier ($300-$400): WINWING Orion 2 Base + WINWING F-15EX Grip, or WINWING F-16 Grip
  • Expert-Tier / Top-Tier: WINWING Super Taurus + WINWING F-15EX Grip, or WINWING F-16 Grip

Bonus: Best Pedals

Although this post is tailored for first-time HOTAS buyers, I will include this section to accommodate those wishing to take a more comprehensive first step into flight sims. As we all know, a good set of pedals is a requirement for flying helicopters.

  • Entry-Level: No recommendations - I don't recommend anything in this price range.
  • Novice-Tier: No recommendations - I don't recommend anything in this price range.
  • Mid-Tier: VKB T-Rudder Mk.IV
  • Advanced-Tier: WINWING Orion Metal Flight Rudder Pedals
  • Pro-Tier: Custom FFB Pedals using VPForce motors built with either (Slaw Device, MFG Crosswinds, or VIRPIL Rudders)

Bonus: Best Collective

  • Collective (Base + Grip): VIRPIL Rotor TCS Base + VIRPIL Apache-64 Collective Grip

I don't recommend any other collectives on the market, and it's a shame that some companies have discontinued their collective options.

Useful Links


r/hotas • • 10h ago

Dude's built compact force-sensing sim pit. It's brilliant.

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82 Upvotes

r/hotas • • 11h ago

Taking the VKB setup out of space sims and into Star Wars Galactic Racer. The feel is incredible !

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67 Upvotes

r/hotas • • 13h ago

Ace Combat 7 Mission 1 with the Project Rocket Pop MK.2.5.

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30 Upvotes

Not a test flight or anything, I played most of AC8 and a tiny teensy bit of Nuclear Option (literally just a couple tutorials and one single player mission) with it, just wanted to show off that it works, probably could've chosen a better camera angle.

Also, side note: I keep rolling right on Nuclear Option, anyone know what that's about?


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Current couch setup

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357 Upvotes

Made the swing arm from two types of desk mounts from Amazon for like $60. I can mount both or a TM HOTAS ONE combo on it and it will hold them and its steady. First time really messing around with flight Sims and stuff and I got hooked.

A special thanks to Luna Ray for helping illustrate where I should be sitting.


r/hotas • • 5h ago

Thrustmaster Captain Pack X Airbus Edition Engine Switches keep turning off

1 Upvotes

I'm playing with this HOTAS connected to my Xbox.

I recently came across this extremely strange issue where my plane, while flying, will just randomly kill the engines. I have to then flip the engine switch on the physical HOTAS throttle controller Off -> On and it will start the engines again. Then within like a minute or so the engine will turn off again and I have to repeat the same Off -> On on the HOTAS throttle controller to get the engine turned on.

Which means this engine switch on my HOTAS works, right?

Except when I go into controls and I do a "Search by input" and I flick the switch, nothing happens. There's no input being read by it. Edit: SOMETIMES it will detect the switch as Joystick Button 21 and 22 respectively, but sometimes it won't detect any input.

Is there a problem with my physical HOTAS? How can the game read the switch input in game but not in the controls setup? Why does my plane keep killing its engines in game?


r/hotas • • 8h ago

Using a VKB Gunfighter Grip on a Thrustmaster Warthog Base.

1 Upvotes

r/hotas • • 10h ago

HOTAS for WARDOGS - anyone using the Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS?

0 Upvotes

Hey everyone!

I've recently been getting really into flying helicopters in WARDOGS, and I'm thinking about buying my first HOTAS setup to improve my flying experience.

Right now, I'm considering the Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS, but before spending the money, I'd love to hear from people who have actually used a joystick or HOTAS in WARDOGS.

A few questions:

- Does anyone here use the T.16000M FCS HOTAS in WARDOGS?

- Does the game recognize both the joystick and the throttle properly?

- How does it feel when flying helicopters, especially when hovering, landing, and transporting passengers or supplies?

- Are the controls easy to set up, or do you need any workarounds or third-party software?

- Would you recommend this setup, or is there a better option in a similar price range?

My budget is around €170, and my main goal is to make helicopter flying feel more natural and precise.

Any feedback, recommendations, or tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Should I get rudder pedals or TrackIR first?

4 Upvotes

I currently have a Logitech webcam that I am using with open track for headtracking, it's good but not perfect, and I feel it would be worth upgrading. Currently for rudder I am using the twist function on my joystick, and feel that it would be cool and more immersive to have some rudder pedals for both the rudder function and for the toe brakes. Which one should I get first? (In an ideal world with infinite money I would get both at the same time, but alas, life is life)


r/hotas • • 15h ago

Thrustmaster AVA Base and F-18

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1 Upvotes

What are people's thought who have the AVA base and F-18

I'm thinking of buying this and wanted to know people's thoughts.

I have also been looking at Virpil, but some people have said they have been waiting for 6+ months for their order. CDT-AEROMAX-R Flightstick


r/hotas • • 1d ago

This sub be like

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78 Upvotes

r/hotas • • 18h ago

VPForce Software TelemFFB and DreamFoil Bell 206 (XP12) help needed

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1 Upvotes

r/hotas • • 20h ago

Sticks recommendations

1 Upvotes

Hi, I'm looking to buy my first set of sticks to play some space sims, I've never had any experience with joysticks before but I've learned that hosas setup would be the best.

Can someone recommend me some sticks that are available on Amazon Europe?

Budget is soft 300 euro, obviously the less the better but can go a bit over the budget if the quality is worth it


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Thrustmaster T.Flight HOTAS Neo X constantly vibrating

0 Upvotes

Need help with my joystick. Playing AC8 on Xbox Series X with the new T.Flight Neo X. I’ve noticed that the stick vibrates nearly constantly. It does ramp up and down with game play, but in between missions and even with I exit the game it’s still got a low level rumble going on.

Plugged into the front USB of the Xbox. I’ve “power cycled” the controller. It is definitely in the Xbox Series X mode. Otherwise the sick works great for the game.

Anybody have any suggestions or recommendations?


r/hotas • • 1d ago

The games I want to play with HOTAS don't actually support it?

10 Upvotes

I'm a HOTAS noob, mine arrived yesterday. I got a Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas One - Joystick & Throttle for my PC setup, after flying Heli a lot in Wardogs.

I had been using a PS5 controller prior, and had gotten half decent with the flying in wardogs, but felt like I was constantly over correcting my movements and couldn't be precise enough to shoot as a pilot.

Anyways, it turns out that Wardogs doesn't have the best HOTAS support, apparently pitching and rolling should be set-up so that when the stick is in the neutral position, the helicopter should be level? That's not the way it works in Wardogs :(

I also just tried Arma Reforger, and the HOTAS support is even worse there, no way to use the throttle or set any bindings!

Installing Arma 3 now, which should work fine as a friend use to do HOTAS on it all the time.

I specifically like the fact that I can be flying helis in a game where players are doing other things (ground combat). I like picking people up, dropping them off, re-supply etc

So what games are actually out there for me? Or are there work arounds for the games I have listed. Feeling pretty stuck right now, any advice would be amazing!


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Controller and hotas issue with War dogs or even in general I think

1 Upvotes

I noticed an issue today once I connected my Rutter pedals with my set up for war dogs. It seems it doesn’t like me having my VKB gladiator stick, X 56 throttle, thrust master rudder pedals, and Xbox controller plugged in at the same time. Once I turn my Xbox controller on it, deletes the X 56 throttle from being seen in game or through windows usb controllers.
I have tried mapping the VKB, X 56, and Rudder pedals to 1 vjoy device, but as soon as I open war dogs, it cuts off my X 56 throttle *if my controller is on.

Is there anything I can do? Is this a controller issue or even a war dogs issue at all? I’ve been flying with throttle, vkb stick, and switching to controller just fine until I plugged in my rudder pedals. Thanks for the help!


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Thanks for the advice, this feels like day and night from my previous setup

11 Upvotes

After much consideration I went with a HOSAS setup, VKB gladiator and omni, I only kind of wish my gladiator was the premium version, but I bought these used (3 months old according to the invoice) with desk mounts for only 230€ in total (instead of the 410€ I would have paid new).

Man these are hella fun to use.

I do believe if I was buying new I would have gone for the Virpil's instead, which new run only +50€ here in total, but feature the full metal gimbal.

However for the price, this can't be beaten.

Now I wish I had some pedals....yea I'm in trouble.


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Help me decide which hotas to get as I don’t have many options

2 Upvotes

🔅Hello guys, as the title mentions, I’m really starting to enjoy flying helicopters, I want to start flight sim games and also play Wardogs (even tho from this sub I understood it may not be as precise as m&k).

🔅The problem I’m facing is even tho I’m French, I currently live in Central Asia and the country I’m specifically in doesn’t have much options available (and I don’t wanna import because it’s quite difficult, pricey and risky customs wise)

So let me tell you what IS currently available in stock around me, including prices :

————————————————————————-
Logitech

EXTREME 3D PRO Joystick – 70$
Logitech X52 HOTAS – 240$
Logitech X52 PRO HOTAS – 290$
Logitech X56 HOTAS – 330$

————————————————————————-
MOZA

AB9 - 420$
MRP Rudder Pedals -250$
MTQ Throttle Quadrant - 190$
MTLP Panel - 200$

Acsessories
MH16 Flightstick - 180$
MHG Flightstick - 99$
MRP Adjustable Damper - 65$
Flight Base Mount Adapter - 25$
Z-Axis Module -79$
TQB - 39$
TQA - 39$

————————————————————————-

Thrustmaster

T.Flight Hotas 5 (Microsoft Flight Simulator Edition) — 165$

T.16000M FCS Joystick for PC — 100$

T.Flight Rudder Pedals — 160$

T.16000M FCS FLIGHT PACK - 320$
————————————————————————-

PXN-2119PRO – 85$
PXN 2113 Flight Stick – 55$
PXN F16 Flight Stick – 50$

————————————————————————-

Nothing else is available, second hand also, almost nothing, and nothing worth mentioning anyway.

With this in mind, what would you take if you were me ?
Would you be able to make 2 (or more) different bundles at 2 different price range, technically I didn’t set a budget yet but if I could have something good enough for 400 instead of 800+ of course I don’t mind.
Also please tell me the flaws of the bundles you pick please 🙏🏻
Currently I fly with m&k, so I’m not sure about pedals or or just using the stick twisting option instead.

And thank you a lot for helping, I’ve been torturing my mind about what to take for days.


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Upgrading from TM T.16000M FCS

1 Upvotes

I bought the TM kit for elite dangerous maybe 5 or 6 years ago. Recently I've gotten back into using it in Wardogs and have been really enjoying using it even though Wardogs isn't the most realistic game and the hotas support for it is meh.

I am looking at upgrading to the Gladiator NXT space combat right hand and Gladiator Omni Throttle left. This seems like a good all around setup for both space and flight games, however I have one question: is the VKB omni throttle a workable replacement for a more traditional single axis throttle? Will it function similarly for a helicopter as my TM FCS or will it be a learning curve?


r/hotas • • 2d ago

Project Rocket Pop MK2.5 worked perfectly.

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135 Upvotes

2.5 now that I added a handle out of the edge piece of an EVA foam mat.

I played Ace Combat 8 for about 4 hours with this and it worked nearly perfectly, the wire popped out about twice but that's a big leap from how fucking awful MK.I was, I could barely go through a free flight session. I managed to beat the third land ship, 9 shadows, and dozens of aircraft protecting Baxter and DD all while using it without any major issues.

The only real problem now is friction, the slider can be kinda tough even after sanding but some kind of lubricant can fix that.


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Thrustmaster Hotas Neo Viabration?

0 Upvotes

Does anyone know if this works on ps5 for flying MSFS? I don’t have ace combat but would like a Hotas with feedback for MSFS


r/hotas • • 1d ago

TIP: Replacement "1.2 / 4.5 kg" springs for Winwing / WinCTRL Orion2 joystick base.

1 Upvotes

This is kind of a follow-up to my finger lift springs post: https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments/1s938s0/finger_lift_springs_for_winwing_orion_2_throttle/

My main stick is an old Winwing / WinCTRL Orion2 base with an F-16EX grip. I run a mixed cam setup (aggressive centering + aggressive profile) with the heaviest springs that come in the cam and damper kit, referred to in the documentation as "1.2" or "4.5kg". I like to feel like I'm fighting hydraulics, and prefer a very heavy stick. I've run this configuration for about 8 months with moderate use, and honestly I didn't expect to get that long out of the springs with this heavy a setup.

Anyway, a spring broke on me this week, so I grabbed my calipers and started taking measurements. For anyone looking for an equivalent replacement spring, I landed on this one:

McMaster-Carr 9433K807, 302 stainless steel extension spring with hook ends. 1.120" long, 0.360" OD, 0.049" wire diameter, pack of 5. https://www.mcmaster.com/products/9433k807/

These are the closest I can find, both in terms of size and feel, and I went ahead and changed out all four in the stick to make sure they were even, and have retained the 5th one as a spare.

I also ordered the 9433K827 to try something heavier, but I do NOT recommend these as they're physically longer and therefore lack sufficient preload, leaving the stick centering a bit sloppy with the tension only having real effect at the extremes of travel. McMaster only gives overall length from the insides of the hook ends, and not the free spring length, so without comparing CAD models, it's hard to judge the amount of preload that will be available, and these did not cut it. They've gone into my miscellaneous parts bin for now.

Anyway, I hope this helps anyone else that needs replacement springs and doesn't want to order an entire cam kit to get them.


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Stickpostion

3 Upvotes

So I've recently got my novice / mid teir set up arriving however I'm debating where to put the stick.

A) directly in line with my mouse

B) in the middle between the legs.

I'm going to be playing:

Project wingman

Axe combat 6,7 then 8

War thunder ( as I'm a masacist)

So I'm leaning towards the middle.

I am going to have to use a desk clamps as my ergo chair has no way to fit adapters to it 😞

What do people use and recommend.

Thanks 🫡


r/hotas • • 2d ago

Diy 2020 with desk clamps

4 Upvotes

Any suggestions for building a desk clamp set up to run approximately 3ft of 2020 profile along the front edge of a desk?

I'm currently using a pair of these clamps:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09WJMCDCZ?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

Some 1/4"-3/8" photo studs, and 1" split ring pipe hangers threaded for 3/8", with a photo cheese plate threaded for 1/4", with a vesa plate, to mount a touchscreen monitor that has 75 x 75 vesa holes.

But I know this is going to look ugly af, and I think I'd like to go with 2020 across the front edge of my desk (uplift, with a track spacer for the keyboard tray), so that, at some point, I can use my mtsim quick change to move between chair and desk.


r/hotas • • 2d ago

Tech question on "output from PC / input to screen for Thrustmaster MFD".

2 Upvotes

Hi,

I am not a flight sim guy, but I do like a spot of Mechwarrior 5.

I stumbled upon the Thrustmaster Cougar MFD, and knowing someone else has used this for MW5 (but has disappeared from the internet and can't help me), I like the idea.

I had a few questions regarding how these works if any techie types are able to clear up some stuff for me:

  1. If using a little LCD behind them, is there any other way of setting it up so as -not- to simply be a new display in Windows, but still can be addressed as a display somehow? (I already have three monitors pushing 4k apiece, I don't want to add another complication there.)
  2. If not, it possible to use a Raspberry Pi or similar to get API information from the PC (Mechwarrior 5 uses Unreal Engone 4 which does have an API) and display it in the MFD? (i.e. offload the screen display role to another computing device - even another Windows PC would be fine) Obviously, this is a complex solution but I want to be certain that some sort of connected device can process any data and display it on the MFD. The MFD buttons would still be connected to the gaming PC via USB, so that doesn't factor in. Ideally, the secondary computer/computing device would be USB connected.
  3. If not, it possible to do the above with an Android tablet (such as a Samsung Tab)?

This is all speculative and as crazy as it sounds to go overboard here, I would like to at least have the display give the 'radar' map from the game on it and buttons labelled.
Having no coding experience, I am not going to be able to DIY a software solution (and I don't want to 'LLM vibecode') even if it seems easy, but if I could have some assurance I can squeeze the extra functionality out of it, I will invest in the hardware and try to find someone who might be able to whip up the code if it's possible to pull data from UE4 that is game specific.

If it is just not possible to go "API->Second device", then that's fine (I can just make a card and slot it in the holder for labels) - but ya know... if ya can? Ya should!

Thanks to everyone who takes the time to read this and further thanks to those who can provide answers. Just hoping someone here may have dabbled in it and can offer some experience.