BOOK 1: Hyperion

Just read it for the first time. Spent the morning reading next to my kids as they watched cartoons trying not to sob. My wife hasn't read Hyperion yet so I have no one to discuss it with.

No spoilers please

My only comfort is that I can pick up a book and farcast back into the world anytime I want.

I’ve never been completely engulfed into a world, that I’ll surely miss, like I have been with the Cantos. Need a break to process and I guess I’ll reluctantly continue with another Simmons book.

I visited Rio de Janeiro and saw the 'Catedral Metropolitana de São Sebastião', I was just amazed. It reminded me of Father Dure's story (my favourite) when he climbed down the cliff into the Bikura's cathedral.

Was just playing around with chat and made a few fun images of the place. The whole world has a creepy vibe but this helps even more when I reread Hyperion

Hi,

Is there anyone from India who'd love to sell their old copies of the cantos?

In the first book, the Ousters are absolutely brutal monsters. They take prisoners, cut off their limbs, open them up and connect filaments to their brains to interrogate them. I don't think this was just Hegemony propaganda either, or at least I don't think Simmons was trying to present it that way. The Ousters were just technologically advanced barbarians who would nuke a world to glass given the opportunity just because it was part of the Hegemony. They'd developed suits with prosthetic tails, and they were tall/stretched like the Belters from The Expanse in a way, but they were hardly some idealized futuristic vision of humanity. They were just scary anorexic guerilla Vikings.

(Spoilers for those who haven't read past the first two books ahead...)

Then in the Endymion series, the Ousters are this enlightened species of post-humans, and they always have been. They live in enormous floating gardens peacefully with all of the refugees from the various species that the Hegemony tried to exterminate. They have zero ability to counter the firepower of the Pax, nor do they seem to have even tried to do anything other than float around in space waiting to get lanced to death by some priests.

Am I missing something? What the hell happened to the Ousters?

No se si leerlo en inglés o traducido (por Carlos Gardini, es la version kindle).

Before I get to my thoughts on the book itself, let me bore you a bit with a little backstory on my relationship with this series.

I started the first book while I was waiting for my wife to come out of carpal tunnel surgery. Two weeks before this, my mother had gotten diagnosed with brain cancer. I read The Scholar's Tale as I watched my mothers condition decline rapidly, and I don't think I ever cried that hard in my life. I was around the halfway point in the book when she passed away suddenly, and I swear this book was one of the only things that held me together and kept me sane during that period. I finished reading it, and given the circumstances, it fucking wrecked me. I had never read anything like it, and while it is always hailed as a sci-fi classic, to me, it's always read as a kind of sci-fi horror hybrid. Dan manages to spin a constant sense of unease with the presence of the Shrike, and the mythos surrounding this being make for a great central hook.

I waited some time before I read Fall, and I have to admit that about halfway through that book, I was really starting to think that Dan had lost the plot, so to speak. It almost felt like he was having a hard time keeping all the story strands together and wondered how he would ultimately resolve them. I'm not trying to suggest that it was a bad book; far from it. I don't think it helped that the second one was told in a much different format, which I understand was necessary, and I think that the format of the first book was one of the things that made it so special. I finished the second book and ultimately enjoyed the ending, but I couldn't help but wonder if Dan was going to continue to struggle with the plot in the third book. This, combined with the fact that I had always read that a lot of people thought the relationship between Aenea and Raul was rather "ick", I was never really sure if I wanted to continue with the series.

Fast forward to two weeks ago, I started Endymion. I did this because, ultimately, given how invested I was in the story and the circumstances surrounding it, I really wanted to know how the saga ended. That being said, here's my thoughts:

I fucking loved it. I thought it was fantastic. That being said, I don't think it is for everyone.

The reason that I say this is because I think that one's enjoyment of the third book is going to be conditional on how well they liked the first two. I know that there are those in the camp of "stop reading after the second book," and I definitely think that there is an argument to be made there. The fact that there aren't really a whole lot of characters that carry over into the third and fourth books means that they kind of form their own entity that is a much different vibe from the first two, and I, for one, really enjoyed the kind of stripped back, space opera adventure. It wasn't as twisty and turny as the first two and made for a brisk adventure that did a good job in answering a lot of questions that were raised by the first two.

Here's the other big thing to address, regarding the whole Raul/Aenea relationship being "ick": I don't get that vibe, at least from this book. I don't know if the dynamic is worse in the last book, but I didn't see anything overtly inappropriate in this book. I would also remind anyone that has also "Ringworld" by Larry Niven that there is a relationship where one of the main characters is over 200 years old and is boinking a 21 year old, which, in my opinion, is a lot more "ick", but I digress.

All right, TL;DR version: I loved Endymion, and would highly recommend it if you enjoyed the first two, as it does a fantastic job of continuing the narrative some 300 years later. If you feel as though you got enough of the story with the first two and don't feel like you want to continue, I wouldn't blame you for not wanting to continue. I feel that if I didn't read the first book when I did and form the connection with it that I have, I probably would not have bothered to read the third book, but I am ultimately glad that I did, and I can't wait to finish the series.

I had a vivid dream about meeting a group of people who were repairing a vessel of some sort. I was speaking to one of the workers who told me they had solved long distance space travel by traveling sideways through dimensional realities and tethering or untethering from the physical.

I was watching a worker walk across some scaffolding which then disappeared and the worker fell. I asked the person what happened and he said the worker experienced a "hyperdimensional trans-locality" and the "For him, it just wasn't there anymore."

I do not remember encountering this term in the real world at all. I had to search it on Google when I woke up to try to understand it. I did read the Hyperion books years ago. Is it used in any real sense or did my mind make it up?

Please tell me your favorite books if you loved the Hyperion Cantos as much as I did!
I really fell in love with all four books, and while I definitely don’t want to reread them again within the next year, I’m desperately looking for something that can scratch that same itch and blow my mind in a similar way.
Doesn’t have to be sci-fi, but that would definitely be a plus, of course.
So: what are your favorite books that you’d recommend to someone who absolutely loved the Cantos?

Hello!

Just finished Endymion and am about 80 pages into Rise. Honestly, these books feel like they’re the author acknowledging how convoluted the stories of the first two got, and is using them to clarify.

I think this, because that was me lol.

It’s like Dan saw people say “That was a masterpiece!! It was so epic!! But what the hell did I just read???”, and then wrote two more books to iron out the confusing parts of the first two.

Anyone else kinda get that vibe?

Is time debt something Simmons cane up with for hyperion or it's some know in science? Where i could get to know more about it and study it?

I have read the first two books of the Hyperion Cantos and recently started with Endymiom. I've heard this book is about a love story about a guy and some messias figure so i was pretty shocked when I heard the protagonists are 27 and 12. I have just read the chapter when they first met and it felt kinda weird to me, like how much them touching each other is described or how Endymiom is described as trying to impress her. it probably wasn't even that weird, I just read it with their future lovestory in the back of my mind. i don't want to read two books full of grown ups flirting with little girls so i decided to google around and found out that many people consider their love story very weird and that dan simmons wrote other literature with very very very pedophile themes. I mean i probably should have guessed, these left leaning generation of '68 liberals always tried to normalize pedophilia for some reason lmao.

my question is basically how weird will things get? is it bad? is it bearable? or is it not bad at all and the people on the internet just overreacted?

The worldbuilding was alright. Kind of a cool side story, but that's all it felt like was some worldbuilding. Idk when it was written, but it feels very inconsequential, almost like a teaser for a future story. This Petyr guy shows up for 2 seconds with the Shrike and they don't really do much, kinda just leaves more questions than answers (as does a lot of stuff in Hyperion). Also, after reading what Simmons wrote about how Petyr felt about his parents (https://hyperioncantos.fandom.com/wiki/Petyr), I felt that kinda soured the ending too. Like if the books continued, and maybe Petyr was a misguided protagonist or some sort of antagonist it could've worked better, but for the final part of the Hyperion cantos it kinda felt tacked on. I understand it's not necessary reading it just felt inconsequential and not a crucial part of reading, but that's just my take, what did y'all think?

-I don’t get what the shrike is — both uis agreed to its “release”?
-why are there a ton of shrikes
-why did sol enter the when caster
-what happened to the techno core
-what is earth’s purpose
-what happened to Leigh hunt

I don't think I can ever read anything again. Four acts of art at its finest. Writing through tears.

About 1'5/2 months ago I finished the Fall of Hyperion. Loved it.

But then, during the Endymion series, if I am not wrong, Raul states that the TechnoCore was responsible not only for the wide attack on several worlds of the Web (something that I was aware of), but also for the attack on Hyperion.

This is where I get lost. If I remember correctly, when the Consul meets with the Ousters to await his trial, they claim that the are only responsible for the attack on Hyperion. That they are going to gain control of the planet and because of that it is pointless to negotiate anything about Hyperion, but they inform the Consul and through him, Gladstone, that the other attacks are not being carried by the Ousters (it is the Technocore in disguise). They don't deny that they were the ones involved in Bressia either, instead they admit to the Consul that his family died at the hands of Ousters.

But then I check the Wiki, I read comments, the books after themselves, and it seems like there's been a 180° change. Apparently the Ousters were never involved and all this time the Technocore was fighting in disguise against the Hegemony in the hopes of creating the perfect situation to defeat its forces and with that, humanity. I don't know, it feels like a retcon.

Just finished Fall of Hyperion and honestly I have no words yet. I really, really loved it. But one (of many!) questions I'm left with is, was the Shrike on humanity's side all along? Because it seems every single action it took was building toward foiling TechnoCore's plan to enslave humanity forever.

It showed Paul Duré the horrors that lay in the caves, then gave him the means to escape, which led to him exposing TechnoCore's plan of infecting humanity with the cruciform.

In the tombs, it directly plugged Brawne Lamia into the data sphere with her Jonhy instead of killing her, which of course led to her learning the AI's plans directly from Ummon (and maybe gaining the power to kill the Shrike?).

It ultimately killed Kassad, but not before giving him the means to actually fight it and lead future humanity's war.

Now that I remember it, Moneta did mention she was it's keeper. So is she the reason the Shrike seems to be on humanity's side? Did she orchestrate it all? If then... How? Did they build their own Shrike, or hack one of the many in the tombs?

Sorry if this is easily answered in the books! I may be stupid but I genuinely didn't catch it.

Just finished The Fall of Hyperion and absolutely am in love with the first two books. And I really do thoroughly enjoy the philosophical elements that ties everything together.

But I'm getting the sense that there's no where to go in the series except explore high concept, metaphysical essence of love and empathy. While I trust whatever Simmons wrote is going to be intelligent and beautiful, I'm just not really sure that would be something I can find myself interested in, at least without the balance of world building and political intrigue. A lot of Keats' portions were already testing my patience.

Should I be giving Endymion a shot or does it play out as I imagine?

Just finished book 1.

Fuck me, what a ride.

Especially Sol's story. I have a 1 year old daughter. I was reading that chapter sitting with her the other night as she slept. Had to keep putting it down to just... look at her for a few mins.

Anyway, speaking of Sol, a line stood out to me. Before his tale, he said "of course, I've been to Hyperion before..."

After reading his tale, I see he's never been to Hyperion before.

Is this ever addressed? Is this spoiler territory for book 2?

The book itself prompted a reflection on what we've learned after Sol told his story. Characters commented that we still don't know enough and elected to hold. Before I start chapter 6, I thought it would be fun to prematurely guess that Brawne's story was the "final" piece to then start comming up with guesses.

To start let's lay out major puzzle pieces each story provided.

1. Father Hoyt - the mechanics of the cruciform and it's ultimate limitation. There is a shrike kill condition.

2. Kassad - The shrike sends out and lures its agents through space time within the mechanics of the time tombs. It feeds on strong emotions or adrenaline like violent and sexual encounters. Leading to a great war at the center of hyperion, being It's ultimate goal.

Multiple "shrikes"

The shrike uses witnesses as messengers

1. Martin Silenus - John Keats idk. the shrike uses victims bodies and messangers (and poetry?)to spread influence.

2. Rachel time mechanics

3. John Keats idk. AI agendas. Ouster linked to the core. God

So, prediction number 1. The consul is going to die. 2. The pilgrims are the contents of the time tombs.

The consul and other pilgrims are going to reappear from the the time tombs.

Rachel is the key for this reasoning alongside the mystery of the "suicide" pigrimiges.

Another line of reasoning stemming from Rachel is that nothing that's already been in the tombs from the past will show up in the tombs. That's why the tombs have always been empty and that's why this last pilgrimage is so important. The "contents" of the time tombs are being brought by the pilgrims themselves.

Wild guess on the traitor: Martin Silenus. Father Hoyt was the red herring unreliable narrator.

Martin silenus is a triple agent. He's so self obsessed that he's in league with the shrike who wants to use the ousters. Martin wants to write an epic poem about it all. "Why is there so much luggage for a one way trip?" He wants it to be a one way trip and masks it with humor. He even suggested getting dropped off by the Consul's ship in the middle of shrike territory. The whole jester buffoon act is all misdirection.

The shrike is a trap created by God. It was created to cull humanity retroactively. God predicted with 100% certainty that humanity will always go to Hyperion and will always be obsessed with the time tombs. The time tombs are humanity's final resting place. AI John Keats will be proof whether or not AI is affected by the shrike. Thats why he cannot go to Hyperion.

Welp, can't wait to be wrong about everything. Dan Simmon is so creative that I won't be suprised if I were. Still, it's the creativity that makes racking the brain fun in the first place.