r/matheducation • u/SafeTraditional4595 • 2d ago
Do you agree with taking marks off for notation mistakes?
/r/highschool/comments/1x3itsq/how_petty_of_a_fucking_math_teacher_do_you_have/This is a post on r/highschool about a math teacher taking marks off for using wrong notation. Opinions on the comments are mixed. I personally do take a a few marks off for mistakes like these, but I've had colleages told me that it is not a good idea and result in kids hating or resenting math.
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u/grimjerk 2d ago
I teach math in college, and dropping one side of an equation loses points, every time. It's too easy for students who are not strong in math to completely lose track of what they are doing when they drop the equals sign.
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u/josiahb120 2d ago
College math prof here 👋🏽 When I grade, I mark off for improper notation, but if all surrounding work is correct I allow students to earn back those points by submitting corrections, as long as conceptual understanding is there.
That being said notation is very important in mathematics. Many times what you write without it isn’t even remotely correct. Think of it as a language. It is as if you are leaving words off when speaking. Imagine you are asking your boss for a raise or promotion but decide to leave off or use the shortest words:
“Worked hard years, do good work, get raise?”
instead of
“I worked really hard for this company for the last 10 years, and feel I contribute to much of the success of this company. Therefore, I’d like to ask for a raise.”
Your boss would understand the first sentence, but you’re probably not gonna get that raise.
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u/Disastrous-Nail-640 2d ago
Failure to use proper notation will absolutely lower your grade in my class. You’re definitely not getting an A without proper notation.
Your colleagues are wrong. They need to remember our job is to teach them proper mathematics. It’s not our job to make sure they like it.
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u/conspiracythrm 1d ago
Except you're conflating grades with teaching. Are those the same thing or is it just a punishment?
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u/Disastrous-Nail-640 1d ago
I’m really, really not.
Your grade is a reflection of what you’ve learned. I taught you the notation. So, yes your grade is going to reflect your ability to use proper notation.
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u/conspiracythrm 1d ago
Let me remind you that you said "your colleagues are wrong. They need to remember our job is to teach them proper mathematics" on a post asking about docking marks for notational errors. That sounds a lot like you're saying that docking marks is teaching them proper mathematics. After all, no one is talking about whether or not we should be teaching them the notation formally in the classroom. It's about grading. Grading is not itself teaching. So your statement conflates the two.
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u/Disastrous-Nail-640 1d ago
My apologies.
“They need to remember that part of their job is teaching proper notation.”
Is that better?
You do realize that saying something is someone’s job doesn’t mean it’s the only part of their job, right? 🙄
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u/conspiracythrm 1d ago
No, you misunderstand me: grading≠teaching. So, when you say "they need to remember that part of their job is teaching proper notation" that does not mean, like you imply, that failing to DOCK MARKS for improper notation IS A FAILURE OF TEACHING or representative of their inability to teach well or completely. That would only be true if grading was the same as teaching. It is not. It is at best a measurement of what has been learned but it is not and cannot be and never should be considered "teaching". A part of your job as a teacher, maybe, but not a part of teaching a subject. So, I find it appalling to claim that because a person chooses not to remove a mark from a students grade, they are doing a poor job of or failing at their job of "teaching proper notation/mathematics". That remark is unnecessarily derisive while not being logically sound. That's where my issue is, not the composition of the job of a teacher 🙄
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u/Disastrous-Nail-640 1d ago
Part of teaching is grading accurately and on what they should and shouldn’t know.
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u/conspiracythrm 1d ago
Part of the job of teaching, or, you know, the requirements of working as a teacher. The act of teaching a thing is not the same thing as the job you are hired for as a teacher. You now seem to be conflating the act of teaching a subject with the professional expectations of a working teacher. Are parent-teacher interviews now "teaching"? Are staff meetings also "teaching"? No. Grading is not teaching. Grading is assessing what they know but that does not teach them proper mathematics it assesses their understanding of proper mathematics.
Just because you are expected to do it as part of your job as a teacher doesn't mean that part is teaching itself. And for that reason: not docking marks for notation is not failing at teaching proper notation. You can argue they're failing at their job as a teacher, but not the teaching part - no more than skipping staff meetings is failing at their job as a teacher.
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u/Crab_Turtle_2112 2d ago
Does taking marks off for spelling mistake make kids resent English? I'm sorry but what a ridiculous argument.
As long as the teacher communicates their intent and their grading system clearly beforehand, I see no problem with this. All my exams are over 95 points, with 5 points awarded for proper notation, and you better have impeccable notation to get the full 5. Never had a complaint a 3 minutes conversation with the student didn't solve.
Using proper notation in maths is important to convey the proper meaning, and shows understanding.
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u/soundoftwilight 2d ago
Taking marks off for spelling mistakes does not, but taking marks off for using common spelling variations (grey vs gray, etc.) absolutely does. Similar to taking points off for not using (or for using, based on the personal preference of the teacher) the Oxford comma, and other variations that are stylistic choices and not general rules. And yes some English teachers do take points off for things like that, and many of their students come away from their classes thinking English writing as a discipline is stupid and arbitrary, similar to how many students feel about math. Most of these examples are not explicit mistakes, and students will not understand them to be actual mistakes, even if they're willing to follow directions so as to not lose those points in the future.
I only remember a few teachers from my educational career, but the ones I do remember fondly are those who focused strongly on an understanding of the actual material, not on simply memorizing and following a long list of directions that dictated the "correct" way to do things in this class. Especially when that "correct" way often varies from teacher to teacher within the same core subject.
It's not unfair to mark off students for these things when the requirement is clearly communicated, but it does lead to students resenting the class and assuming the material itself must not be important, if correct answers feel less important than simply following directions.
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u/SuppaDumDum 2d ago
Calling it a spelling mistake as if it's absolute/objective is wrong. It's not a spelling mistake, it's not a notation mistake, it's insufficient clarity in argumentation. Clarity is subjective and is specific to a dialect, mathematical arguments, unless they're written in Lean or something, always contain implicit but hopefully clear enough assumptions. Here the student failed in clarity for the dialect they're expected to be conversant in.
Are we going to take points off because it's missing "=0,=0,=0"? Yes. Are you going to also take points off because they didn't write "which is equivalent to, which is equivalent to, which is equivalent to"? No, apparently this teacher thought that part was clear enough. Are we going to take points off for not clarifying that those statements are still within the same scope of the formal variable x? Hopefully not.
So, the student deserves to get points taken off. And that shouldn't be treated as a god given absolute.
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u/CMDRSheaperd 2d ago
The method being used is clearly the zero product property. It wont work if its not actually equal to 0. This is more akin to dropping limit notation in a limit problem. Its a key part of why what they are doing will work.
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u/soundoftwilight 2d ago
If a student didn't repeatedly write out "lim(x->0)" at the start of every line while simplifying an expression, but as their final step they correctly evaluated the limit, would you really count points off for that? The student obviously didn't forget about the limit, and they obviously didn't think that the expression inside the limit is equivalent to the limit as a whole.
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u/bluesam3 2d ago
Yes, because effective communication is an essential part of good mathematics, and missing out critical notation is not effective communication.
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u/AcellOfllSpades 20h ago
Yes, points should be taken off for that. Maybe not a lot of points, but certainly not none.
If the student doesn't want to write out "lim[x->0]" each time, they can write just "lim" at the start instead.
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u/GruelOmelettes 2d ago
This sort of thing highlights the limitations of using one quantitative measure like "points" as the sole score/grade on an assessment. I get why it's so common, it doesn't take much time or effort in the setup phase to define point values and it's faster to grade (my department almost always does things this way aside deom projects). Ideally, there would be clear expectations and some sort of rubric that covers things like work, communication, and notation that students are aware of ahead of time. But that takes a lot more time to develop. We're given 1 hour per week for PLC and that time goes fast.
I agree with bad notation getting a lower grade than good notation. It shouldn't be kept secret from the students though. We want them to show us their understanding of the math, and they shouldn't have to guess at what is expected of them. Written expectations that are clear and unambiguous ought to be the norm!
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u/YT__ 2d ago
Failure to demonstrate full understanding leads to making careless mistakes. Taking points off will ingrain the idea that you shouldn't drop notation that's 'understood' to save you a few strokes, cause you will end up making mistakes.
I agree with removing points.
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u/NYY15TM 2d ago
Failure to demonstrate full understanding leads to making careless mistakes
You haven't shown failure to demonstrate full understanding
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u/YT__ 2d ago
In the example from the post, the person dropped =0.
From their work, I can't tell if they actually understand that they're still dealing with an equation, or just walking through steps. I'd feel remiss to assume they're completely understood what they're doing and sending them forward with the possibility that they aren't grokking the concepts by showing all important information in each step.
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u/Coffee__Addict 2d ago
Yes, if you domt take off marks then students do t correct the behavior.
Better to lose the marks now then when you're paying for them.
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u/Narrow-Durian4837 2d ago
That's a good question, and I'm interested in seeing the responses, because I think a case could be made either way,
Here's how I responded to the original post:
I kind of don't blame you for being upset, and if I were your teacher, I wouldn't have taken off points for anything other than the missing ±. However...
Your work is sloppy and leaves stuff out, in ways that can very easily lead to careless errors. I've seen people post on reddit asking how they can avoid making dumb math mistakes, and the (correct) advice that is often given is to work carefully and write everything out.
Maybe in general, and certainly for this particular teacher, you'd be better off thinking in terms of communicating clearly and correctly what you're doing rather than just working out the answers,
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u/Nin10do0014 2d ago
As much as I dread my current grad school work with notation, it is fundamentally important that math students utilize notation properly. It is, at its core, the "grammar" rules of math. History and literature teachers don't let students slide for improper grammar and spelling. Foreign language teachers especially do not let grammar and spelling slide. By this principle, math teachers should not let students slide with sloppy or lazy notation, especially since a lot of math leads into computer science where syntax is everything.
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u/unaskthequestion 2d ago
I make it clear what I consider important and require in terms of notation and I give them a couple of assessments to get used to it. I've never had a problem with complaints because I explain why I think it's important, say for naming functions, f(x), g(x) and for derivatives and integrals
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u/mathimati 2d ago
And you’re already abusing notation. The functions are f and g. The notation f(x) is the evaluation of that function at x. It is a standard abuse, but it should be understood as such.
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u/unaskthequestion 2d ago
The name of the function includes the name of the independent variable. Just writing f and g would be be needlessly ambiguous if each had a different independent variable. You've inadvertently made my point, that the purpose of using correct notation is to avoid ambiguity
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u/MeasureDoEventThing 2d ago
>The name of the function includes the name of the independent variable
No, it doesn't. The x in f(x) is a dummy variable.
>Just writing f and g would be be needlessly ambiguous if each had a different independent variable.
That doesn't make sense. How would they have different independent variables, and how would not writing them cause ambiguity? As long as only one function named f is in scope, f is unambiguous.
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u/unaskthequestion 1d ago
Two functions, f and g. Tell me which one is dependent on time as the variable. Oh, you can't.
Two functions (t) and g(x). Tell me which is dependent on time as the variable. Oh look, we've removed the ambiguity
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u/MeasureDoEventThing 1d ago
>Two functions, f and g. Tell me which one is dependent on time as the variable. Oh, you can't.
Being "dependent on time" is not a property of an abstract mathematical function, and is irrelevant to analyzing a function as a mathematical object. "Time" is a physical concept, not a mathematical one.
>Two functions (t) and g(x). Tell me which is dependent on time as the variable. Oh look, we've removed the ambiguity
That's not really a correct use of "ambiguity". And you forgot to have the f before the (t). Using t as the dummy variable rather than x suggests that time is what is being measured, but it's a rather poor way of communicating that. The proper way of communicating this is f: domain -> codomain. E.g. f: R -> R. It's kinda sad you're a teacher and you don't know this.
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u/unaskthequestion 1d ago
Lol, it's obvious that you never even thought about teaching. We're not talking about university mathematics majors here, we're talking about 15 to 17 year old whose experience with mathematics is similar to a puppy.
And it's the perfect use of ambiguity.
Let's just be clear here, you're talking way above the level of students who are not intending to have a university concentration of mathematics where the pedantic issue you're raising has relevance.
You've never taught beginning students, you haven't taught any students at all.
A teacher would not accept a student turning in the answer to a derivative as g2 - 5g (unless it's you). A teacher would never accept a function defined as f = a2 bc3 because it doesn't define the independent variable.
Thats what we're talking about, that's what the point of proper notation is and that's how a good teacher instills good habits in students.
Now I'm going to drop this completely pointless discussion because you have no idea what teaching mathematics is about and should not even be commenting in this sub
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u/MeasureDoEventThing 1d ago
>A teacher would not accept a student turning in the answer to a derivative as g2 - 5g (unless it's you).
Your straw man attacks are childish. g is the name of the function. g^2 is not proper notation. g'(x) = g^2(x)-5g(x) would be proper notation, because it's *defining* the derivative. If we were *naming* the derivative, it would be g'. Seeing as how you not only don't understand the difference between *naming* a function/derivative and *defining* it, and you are unable to discuss the matter civilly, you really shouldn't be a teacher.
>A teacher would never accept a function defined as f = a2 bc3 because it doesn't define the independent variable.
Yes, because that's not the proper *defining* of a function. Duh. When you *define* a function, you put in a dummy variable. Like in Python, if you write
f = lambda x: x**2
That means that f is the function that squares its input. x is the dummy variable. It is used in the *definition*. If you want to *reference* the function, the *name* is f. For instance, you can write
my_funcs = [f, g, h]
You wouldn't write
my_funcs = [f(x), g(x), h(x)]
This some really basic stuff here.
>Thats what we're talking about, that's what the point of proper notation is and that's how a good teacher instills good habits in students.
A good teacher don't post bullshit and then insult people who point out they're wrong.
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u/unaskthequestion 1d ago
Just give it up. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about
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u/MeasureDoEventThing 1d ago
You're exhibiting Dunning-Kruger. You have no argument, just insults.
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u/bluesam3 2d ago
The name of the function includes the name of the independent variable.
No, it doesn't. The function is f. The expression f(x) indicates a value taken by the function f.
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u/unaskthequestion 1d ago
This just gets ridiculous
You're a student in any calculus class in the world and you're asked to define a function for the velocity of a given object.
According to what you're saying, you can just write 'v'
Whereas the only acceptable answer would be something of the form v(t) = t2 - 2t
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u/mathimati 2d ago
This is not true. Or we would not define them as f:(domain)->(codomain). We would include the independent variable. Which we do not. Or formally, as ordered pairs that provide the input/output pairings explicitly, thus a subset of the Cartesian product. In both cases there is no need to label the independent variable as a specific symbol.
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u/unaskthequestion 2d ago
You're obviously not an instructor that grades students' work and has the need to avoid ambiguity, which is essential in all of mathematics. It's odd that you would even attempt to argue the point
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u/peterfirefly 2d ago
The need to avoid ambiguity is precisely why it's important to distinguish between f and f(x). They are not the same.
A lot of the trouble with teaching functions to kids is exactly due that common abuse of notation.
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u/unaskthequestion 1d ago
I think you misunderstood my comment. I make it clear when I require students to use the notation f(x), which is basically all of the time. There are insignificant cases for using f alone for the mathematics I'm teaching. As well as for the vast majority of this sub.
Students need to learn to always identify the independent variable, especially in precalculus and calculus. Failure to do so is one of the more common sources of their errors. Using correct notation practically eliminates this.
It is sometimes clear when someone comments here that is not an instructor
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u/bluesam3 2d ago
Your "correction" isn't removing ambiguity, it's simply incorrect: f and f(x) are different objects, and (generally) only the former is a function.
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u/unaskthequestion 1d ago
As I've said, it's often clear here that people comment who are not instructors
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u/mathimati 1d ago
It is also clear you are not an instructor who has to later reteach them this distinction in courses like functional analysis. Where yes, it very much matters, and you are reinforcing bad habits.
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u/unaskthequestion 1d ago
Well, I've been a successful teacher with several awards for over 30 years so you'll understand that I don't put any stock in what some random redditor who has never taught anything has to say
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u/DuggieHS 2d ago
Do you get marked down in English class for writing in incomplete sentences and not using punctuation?
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u/G-St-Wii 1d ago
None of these are "notation mistakes."
They are incorrect statements or invalid deductions.
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u/philnotfil 2d ago
If they do the work wrong, they can't get as many points as if they did it correctly. The notation is part of the work.
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u/kinggeorgec 2d ago
Math is a language and the notation has meaning and structure. Notation matters and is an insight to how well they understand the material.
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u/matthras 2d ago
I feel like kids hating/resenting maths because they couldn't be bothered to adhere to (presumably sufficiently communicated and modeled) notation/writing principles is more a reflection on them - it's something that's easy enough to correct.
But I also agree that it should be visible on a marking scheme. If it's never communicated/modeled and the teacher takes marks off, then to the student it can look like an unwanted surprise of expectations that were never mentioned or implied.
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u/ingannilo 2d ago
It depends.
I comment on every use of bad or incorrect notation on student exams.
I take points off for notation mishaps that either harm the student's progress in their solution (misplaced variable, lost exponent, sign error, integrating or differentiating with respect to the wrong variable ) or make the logic of their solution incorrect or unintelligible (complete absence of an operator, failure to execute a denoted operation, getting completely lost in systems of equations, various nonsense from not understanding the definition of a symbol).
Other shit... eh... notation is fluid, like language. I'm not in the dogmatic camp like some of my colleagues. Good notation will persist and bubble to the top. Bad notation will often harm its users processes enough that I'll just punish the bad process. In situations where the notation is so bad that one cannot discern a specific process being followed though, some punative measures are needed.
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u/the_spinetingler 2d ago
I do it for lots of various notational mistakes: missing degree signs, missing units of measurement, no name on the paper. . .
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u/RennacOSRS 2d ago
We obviously don't know the full story- but to play devils advocate...
Is this an expectation that is being held to students consistently?
Is this how homework is expected to be done? Would they have done fine if they left it off till the last line thus giving you a full correct answer? Is shorthand never okay? Was it ever said this is how you want the test answers to be presented?
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u/No-Jicama-6523 2d ago
Not understanding that an expression and an equation at different things and randomly switching between the two is going to lead to confusion and resentment.
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u/Fire_Snatcher 2d ago
Top left is definitely wrong (and so is the teacher's correction), but if we're talking about number 7, I'm actually conflicted. It depends how you interpret their statement.
I would give them points if you interpret their work as stating that x^3 - 5x^2 - 9x + 45 factors to (x-3)(x+3)(x-5), so the solutions to the original equation are x =3, x=-3, and x=5. Had they literally written that out, I probably would given them full points. Showing work with mathematical notation in this way is already a bit of a shorthand, so where draw the line? If that line is clearly communicated in class, I would be fine with taking off points.
As for the analogy it is equivalent to sloppy grammar/spelling, it still depends how you interpret their work. If someone is bullet pointing a paragraph response on the side with improper grammar, shorthand, etc., but submits an acceptably punctuated, grammatically correct paragraph, does it not merit full marks even if terse?
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u/burghsportsfan 2d ago
If you’re going to use the Zero Product Property, you better show that you have a product that equals zero.
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u/hunnyflash 2d ago
I think that left bottom one with the arrow is really annoying. It's clear what they meant. But they should be corrected on the Equals Zero. Seems like the teacher was going to take the half point anyway.
I also think it depends on what class you're teaching. Early algebra and early Calc courses should be strict on notation.
I think it's weird to coddle people on the points scored. You need to get used to your work being red-penned, in Math, English, History, wherever.
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u/Blibbyblobby72 2d ago
All the comments are completely missing that the top left question is simply wrong. The student should definitely not get the mark, but not for the reason ostensibly stated by the teacher's correction
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u/mathemusician96 2d ago
I'd be willing to give it a pass until they do the whole ab=0 implies a=0 or b=0 thing without actually saying "=0", that's pretty fundamental to the logic
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u/Arcnounds 2d ago
I realize this might be controversial, but it depends on who my audience is and what their goals are. If I am training mathematicians, the absolutely. If I am working with a class whose terminal class will be college algebra, then I am happy they showed some reasoning and knowledge of factoring.
I see some on this thread who say the student does not understand conceptually what is happening without the "=0". If that is true, then it would have been easy enough to add a conceptual question to clarify why that is the case (if that is what the teacher cares about). I guarantee there are plenty of students in that class who put =0, but have no idea why it is important and the feedback on this test, quiz, etc does explain why =0 is important.
I will also note that sometimes science classes are far less formal than math classes and look more towards the answer and explaining that answer. That means the student might be getting conflicting I formation about mathematics is required to solve a problem from different places.
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u/TheSleepingVoid 2d ago
My feeling is that it depends on how the teacher taught the unit. I'm teaching highschool freshmen right now so of course many of them have awful notation.
And I think there is a difference between scratch work and presenting a full solution with all steps, too.
I think notation is important, but if I want to make notation something I grade it's only a fair thing if I warn the students ahead of time with examples of what I'm looking for. I tell them I will be marking off points and explain why.
The higher level the class is the less that it should need to be explained that notation is important. But I think through Algebra 2 with the general Ed population it's important to be clear about what you want from them or it is unfair.
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u/FlippyCucumber 1d ago
The lines of the discussion are drawn in the wrong place. People are asking "Is this fair to mark off for these notational issues?"
The Obvious First Level Questions:
- "Has the teacher clearly set an expectation for the class to write the full equation through every step?"
- "Does the teacher demonstrate this through their lessons even if communicated?"
- "Is this a consistent problem that this student is demonstrating?"
- "Is this an issue that a significant portion of the class is having?"
But all of these questions assume that focusing on notation is an important issue to address.
- "Does the student understand the concepts that underlie the technique?"
- "Does this penalty teach logical rigor, or does it merely demand compliance?"
- "Is this causing resentment towards the teacher?" If you read the OP, it's definitely there. It may go away with the responses they received or it may linger.
- "Is this causing resentment towards the subject as a whole?"
- "What is gained when focusing on syntactical compliance and at what cost?"
- "How did we decide that this is the time to emphasize this?"
Everyone has a cognitive load limit. Imposing unnecessary extraneous load during problem-solving interferes with schema formation and deep learning. Short hand is a normal part of concept chunking to help students focus on transformational elements. Skipping a untransformed element like the =0 that is stated at the beginning of the logical chain and necessary for its solution penalizes clerical compliance over conceptual construction. Enforcing clerical consistency at this stage of learning teaches rote compliance over logical sense-making. Small, repetitive deductions for formatting shortcuts are precisely what generate the 'stupid points' cynicism.
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u/3ISTHEBESTNUMBER 1d ago
If that kid is complaining about high school math teachers being tough with grading just wait till they get to university. Professors are ruthless graders.
Proper notation is essential. I’m with the teacher here.
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u/Disposable_Eel_6320 1d ago
If you want to make sure people understand how to apply concepts use word questions instead of ticking off points for not writing down work that can easily be done in your head
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u/zedalocious 21h ago
Yes, taking partial points off is valid. Notating things correctly is a process goal. Those are also important, not just knowing the answer. Many math problems are process related: You have to plug things in in the correct order to end up in the right place. It’s valuable to be precise.
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u/RekiWylls 2d ago
It really depends for me. If it's an error repeated multiple times through an assignment/test, I'll usually dock them the first one or two times and just annotate the mistake on previous ones. If I'm supposed to be grading their knowledge, then I don't like the idea of them losing a bunch of half-marks, dragging their overall grade down. Sometimes I'll throw them a bone on small things like forgotten negatives in their answer too.
On the other hand, if the mistake impacts my ability to understand what they're doing, they lose the mark every time. For assignments specifically, if the work is very messy, I will sometimes ask them to rewrite it for legibility before I mark.
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u/Yowie9644 2d ago
It depends.
Are they setting out a proof? Then notation matters.
Or are they "showing their working"? Because if they're just showing their working, that is, how they figured out the result they got, then providing the mathematical logic is sound and the answer is correct, I would not be deducting marks unless I had very specifically stated that all working had to include the exact correct notation as a requirement for full marks.
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u/snowballcannon7 2d ago
very very clear what the student is doing here. don't know why everyone is crashing out. i can see why everyone hates math if this is what they think it's about. if this is what we want to do then fine, but we shouldn't complain when nobody cares about learning math in their own time
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u/Ltserb 2d ago
From a non-highschool non-teacher perspective (although my mom has been a teacher my whole life and I have been engaged with the classroom through her constantly) and I graduated nearly 20 years ago. But I distinctly remember something very similar happening to myself over the course of a few weeks in 8th grade (age 12-13ish), and while I won't defend my actions, I still certainly stand by my sentiment.
I was (am) autistic and in the Gifted & Talented program, but had recently transferred schools.
My math teacher was attempting to teach cross multiplication. Something which I had been doing for a year or two already and was able to do mentally so was no longer challenging or engaging. Since I was able to solve all the problems in my head I turned in my answers without "showing my work". That teacher felt, as this students teacher does, that all work should be shown to "prove" that we understood the problems, the methods, and the solutions. I challenged her to give me cross multiplication problems so I could prove I did in fact understand. I solved them mentally and provided the answers verbally and immediately. Then I said that unless she could challenge me with ones that I couldn't solve without writing them down, then I would continue to do them the way I had been.
One of the next assignments was returned to me with a big fat zero grade for not showing my work. And with all the emotional regulation of a hormonal preteen that knows for a fact that she is in the right - I stood up and screamed in her face that she was the "stupidest woman I had ever met". Obviously - appropriately - she sent me to the principals office (but did not tell him why). I explained to him as I have here, why I was in his office. He corroborated the story with her, reiterated to me why she wanted me to show my work, and when I refused told me something to the effect of "the semester is almost over, just be quiet in class, and don't antagonize her", then sent me back to class.
I started sitting in the back of the room, and spent the next month continuing to do all my work in my head and not showing my work. Only, I also began passing my assignments around when I finished them so everyone could copy off me. I no longer cared about getting a good grade, because I knew the teacher no longer cared about teaching me. I have no clue what I got in that class but since all the exams were multiple choice I know for a fact that every single one was a 100%. And obviously the interaction meant enough to me that I remember it decades later.
My 8th grade math teacher demanding that I do things her way and refusing to acknowledge my competency was demeaning and disrespectful. And because I was a child with poor emotional regulation, I demeaned and disrespected her in turn, as well as sabotaged her efforts to teach other students in that class.
If you are able to determine that your student understands the information, that what you have been trying to teach them has stuck. Even (maybe especially) if they adapt it, as long as they can prove that they comprehend the material, they should receive a grade that reflects their mastery of the subject. If you are restricted from challenging a student that needs it, then that should be communicated directly to your department/leadership/principal and should not be reflected poorly on the student.
She had her contract terminated at the end of that semester.
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u/Travel_and_Tea 11h ago
I teach geometry to a bunch of honors, 99th-percentile type of kids, so I’m pretty strict about it. A lot of them are very quick thinkers who need to learn to slow down and communicate clearly. On a test worth around 40 points, I’ll take off a half point for one notation error, then a whole point overall if they make more than one. If the class don’t generally improve over time, I switch to taking off one point per error. I want them to understand that communication a core, universal, foundational skill for life. Knowing something in your head isn’t very effective if you can’t express it clearly and precisely.
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u/phillipkdink 2d ago
A test is not a request for answers, the test writer (hopefully) already knows the answers. It's a request for the students to demonstrate what they've learned.
If they get the correct answer but don't include "=0" in the steps it is unclear if they genuinely understand the meaning of what they're doing, or if they are simply following an incantation that often gets them to the correct answer. It's not up to the marker to assume students understand what they're doing just because it got them the right answer, it's up to the students to demonstrate it.