r/highschool • u/Few-Teaching-9602 • 2d ago
Rant How petty of a fucking math teacher do you have to be.
I get that their are some reasonable points off like #4 where I didn’t put plus minus. But wtf for the others? Does it even matter if I got the answer right but the teacher decides to take off points because I didn’t put a =0. This isn’t even like an AP class or anything. I would’ve gotten like a 95 if it weren't for these stupid points
Edit: Everyone saying shes not that bad, im re-editing this point because this is very recent new upcoming of how petty she is. Recently we had a quiz, it was a TWO PART QUIZ we had to finish in 45 MINUTES, and labeled a quiz despite it covered EVERYTHING we did in this unit. Not only that, their was another math teacher who gave the EXACT same quiz to the EXACT same level and the exact same type of class, and she gave them TWO days to do it, while my teacher only gave us 45 MINUTES to do it. the "quiz" that was built and (in my opinion) worse then a test. Literately nobody finished it in the end, I BARELY finished it, while people in my class were stretching so much time to finish questions she had to kick them out by the second late bell. Everybody was so worried about having all the quiz answers and all their work shown even for the simplest shit, I even recall writing basic addition down so she wouldn't take off points reflecting on this post and taking the commentary that I should be careful, on top of the SEVERAL other niche things she expects us to recall that she supposedly said a 2 weeks ago which im pretty sure I missed, how the fuck am I supposed to juggle between getting the answer right and getting the work right. If this doesn't change your mind that she is NOT petty then I don't know what IS. I took your advice and yet she still grilled us the next day about how we didn't remember this niche specific thing she said to do. I set everything that had to be = 0 to = 0 I showed all my work. Like what the fuck am I supposed to do? And their were several incidents after this point I haven't even mentioned. At this point im writing a formal report with my classmates because nearly all of them were complaining about the exact same thing. I really don't care at this point if you guys say stuff like "Welcome to the real world!" Because I know damn well a multi billionaire company isn't going to give two dog poopy shits if I write something that is right but I don't show that I put = 0 at the end on a piece of paper and show my work, I tried following your advice and it didn't work, the grade didn't come out and I know its already going to be shit, I studied for it and I know that the level I am in is definitely sufficient since I've been to the best of two worlds in advanced and the lower level class I dropped in which I averaged A+'s before. She shouldn't be teaching if she can't teach and doesn't give the fair and equitable time that other teachers with the same assessment gave their students.
And to be clear I am not the type of person to call every teacher shitty at the slightest inconvenience, I am quite the opposite and always try to say that a teacher is beneficial for me, but this math teacher has definitely proved me wrong. I have no other words and I've had bad teachers but she's definitely won the title as the worst most obnoxious and egotistical math teacher I've ever had, and I haven't even gotten into the meat into how she acts in class either with how she treats other people.
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u/DavidFosterWallace69 2d ago
Your teacher is actually being fair, hate to be honest with you.
You need to be detailed in showing your work, you will quickly find you will start to make silly mistakes semi-often in math if you skip over writing “=0” at the end of a quadratic or “+/-“ at the solution to the quadratic. Trust me, I know because it happened to me. (If you don’t want to major in stem, it’s irrelevant, but if you plan on doing an engineering major, the time to build good math habits is now).
As other comments have pointed out. There’s a difference between showing your work “differently” than how your teacher wants it, and showing work that is incorrect as presented.
But, good news: it’s clear you understand the content, just some little mistakes.
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u/Thefakewhitefang 1d ago
I would argue that not using the equals sign when finding the roots of the quadratic does show that you really don't understand what you're doing.
I mean, the roots are literally just finding where the quadratic function crosses the x-axis, what were you doing in class to not understand what the "solving" means?
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u/DiskPartition 2d ago
If nothing else it's preparation for higher grades. It's a little on the stricter side but not substantially so.
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u/taxiviaalfa 1d ago
It's not on the stricter side. OP is lucky actually. My high school math teacher didn't do half marks. Either you got the full mark or you didn't. I would've lost at least 1 full mark on this question
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u/Disastrous-Nail-640 2d ago
Every one of those point deductions is valid.
Proper notation is expected. Without it, you change the meaning.
For example, dropping the “=0” means there’s nothing to solve as you no longer even have an equation. It’s just an expression at that point and you can’t solve an expression.
When you stopped the (x^2-20) you have changed the entire expression. You can’t just not write it because you don’t feel like it.
You wouldn’t get an A in my class either. A students use proper notation and show all their work.
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u/Human-Unit-1897 1d ago
brutal but fair. the "I would've gotten a 95" math is doing a lot of heavy lifting here for someone who won't write two characters. ngl though, losing an A to punctuation stings in a way nothing else does at 16.
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u/soundoftwilight 2d ago
This is insane. Such a degree of detail in notation isn't even always required in published mathematical proofs, and you think it's relevant for a high schooler? What is required is that you indicate what you mean and that the reader understands what you mean. They clearly indicated their methodology AND got the right answer. You sound like you read a math textbook and thought that math is a series of formulae and steps. You're treating math like it's drawing a magic circle, where you have to reproduce the exact steps perfectly or you'll summon a red bat instead of a blue one. That's not how math works. The literal pencil marks on the page don't matter. What matters is the expression of the idea; mathematical notation, after all, is simply a representative language. It is a convenience, nothing more. There is always more than one way to express an idea. You could write out a solution in plain English and it would be just as valid, as long as the ideas were correct.
Which, to be clear, they are to any reader who isn't actively antagonistic. No sane reader would assume that they have forgotten that they are working with an equation, nor that they have forgotten part of the left-hand expression given that they explicitly wrote down the process for the "missing" part and got the appropriate answers. A generous reader might even assume that they dropped the "=0" on purpose; they are merely simplifying the left-hand expression, without performing any operations that change its value. Thus the original equation remains preserved, and there is no reason to write it down multiple times.
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u/JeffdaPeff 2d ago
You have no idea wtf you are talking about if you think such sloppy notation is sufficient for proofs.
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u/Nin10do0014 2d ago edited 1d ago
What matters is the expression of the idea; mathematical notation, after all, is simply a representative language.
If it's a language, it has grammar rules. Notation IS the math version of grammar. Try skipping small notations in computer science and watch your code "work."
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u/bluesam3 2d ago
Such a degree of detail in notation isn't even always required in published mathematical proofs
The standards there are wildly higher.
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u/Disastrous-Nail-640 2d ago
Wow. That was a lot of assumptions you made there.
I’m treating math as a language, which is it. You need to clearly communicate your ideas to the reader.
Contrary to what you may think, it’s not my job to assume anything. My job is to grade the work they showed me. It’s up to them to ensure their work is valid and flows well.
My rubric is clear about what our expectations are in our department.
If you want full credit and want to show you’re an A student, then you should be able to clearly communicate how you got from start to finish without shortcuts.
Math is about expressing ideas in a clear and logical manner.
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u/JTT207 1d ago
Counter point, the directions most likely didn't say "show the mathimatical progression of equivalent steps that lead to the solution". They most likely said "Solve".
The student was presented with a question, they did some very intelligent things, and they successfully found the solutions.
I think this style of grading comes off as petty because the grade should refelct the mastery of the concept. The person doing the work clearly mastered the concept that was being taught, just not the notation. You would need to explicity tell them you were going to grade this way for it to be ok in my opinion.
But also it's also only 1.5 points. Assuming the grade is out of 100, that isn't a big deal.
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u/Disastrous-Nail-640 1d ago
I bet the words “show your work” were either on the test, on the board, or stated.
And frankly, you really shouldn’t need to be told to show your work.
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u/bolt110 2d ago
ur teacher is right
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u/Temporary_Duck4337 2d ago
The teacher clearly not only requires correct answers but also accurate communication of methods.
This is analogous to taking off points for bad grammar or incomplete sentences in an essay - the ideas are correct but the mathematical communication is incomplete.
I'm not sure how many points each question is worth but if it's one point each, than losing half credit for poor communication seems harsh.
If each question is worth like 10 points, then not so bad.
At least the teacher is letting you know exactly why you lost points.
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u/josiahb120 2d ago
College math prof here 👋🏽 When I grade, I mark off for improper notation, but if all surrounding work is correct I allow students to earn back those points by submitting corrections, as long as conceptual understanding is there.
That being said notation is very important in mathematics. Many times what you write without it isn’t even remotely correct. Think of it as a language. It is as if you are leaving words off when speaking. Imagine you are asking your boss for a raise or promotion but decide to leave off or use the shortest words:
“Worked hard years, do good work, get raise?”
instead of
“I worked really hard for this company for the last 10 years, and feel I contribute to much of the success of this company. Therefore, I’d like to ask for a raise.”
Your boss would understand the first sentence, but you’re probably not gonna get that raise.
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u/Character_Drive6141 2d ago
I'm in college now and I'm very confused by this standard. Luckily I have not had the displeasure of a prof like that in the time I've been here. Most of the work in tests is scratchwork. As long as you solve it with the correct methods it doesn't matter. Additionally, a major part of math exams (at least at my school) are the time constraints. You are supposed to be fast. Expecting perfect notation under those conditions is irrational.
To use your boss/worker example, if your boss asks you to give a presentations to the higher ups it must be well articulated and organized. If he tells you to give a presentation to the higher ups at a surprise check in, it doesnt have to be nearly as professional as long as you can explain yourself and give the correct information.
I'm working with Laplace right now, and if I have a system x_1(t) and a corresponding laplace of X_1(s), you can bet that in a test I am shorthanding those as x_1 and X_1 respectively. As long as by the end I write the result as X(s) or x(t) depending on what's asked, there is no way I should lose points. Also, while working I will simplify expressions above by just writing little numbers above them (especially if they are in parentheticals). These arent real notation, but they help me solve the problem by keeping track of the numbers on the the page, which is their purpose.
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u/Emergency-Print400 2d ago
This is how I feel. If I was going to major in something with mathematics, sure I'd understand the stress on proper notation all of the time. However, students are oftentimes just taking a quick math class or two to meet degree requirements.
I always use proper notation because I enjoy doing it and need to remember it when tutoring others, but on a standardized test? I'm cutting half of it out to meet time constraints and still getting the same answer.
I have a lot of friends who are very intelligent when it comes to math—like, top of the school kind of intelligent—and many of them don't write full notation. They'll get the right answer and understand how they got it, but they cut out whatever they don't feel is necessary for them to visually compute an equation.
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u/Leather-Prior3926 2d ago
this is the only response that anyone in this thread needs to read.
by high school, the test isn't only about finding the solution, it's about demonstrating the act of mathematical reasoning on paper, and that's very much about things like retaining all the parts of the equations you're keeping balanced.
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u/WanderingPilot- Freshman (9th) 2d ago
It's not a real equation without the = 0. It changes the whole problem.
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u/Adorable_Argument_44 2d ago
the dummies on this thread dont know the diff between an equation and an expression
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u/SyllabubLoud1128 2d ago
No this is reasonable. You have to write the 0. It's an equation.
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u/r_Yellow01 1d ago
One could work on expression before plugging it back into the equation. I would make the note but not take away points.
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u/Internal-Fan9026 2d ago
bruh I remember when my teacher gave me a bunch of -1 here and there without bothering to circle or explain where I did it wrong
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u/Mckillface666 1d ago
I’m a 9th grade algebra teacher. I would certainly take off points for the plus minus sign missing. The equals zero is an important part of the equation as that is what allows you to use the zero product property. They are well within bounds to take these points off. I personally would not unless it was something I emphasized in class. I would most likely make a note and say “make sure you don’t do this again” and then deduct points if they did it again. If your teacher was standing in front of class saying you had to do it all week then they definitely SHOULD take those points off.
At best, your teacher is following through on an important part of the problem they have been yelling about all week. At worst they are taking off points they could let you slide on. I don’t think there is anything petty about it though…
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u/kassadilla59 1d ago
Math teacher of 13 years and I would agree. The plus/minus is a for sure deduction. The other stuff I was like "eh, I'd let it slide probably but they aren't wrong for what they did either." Definitely within the bounds of reasonable expectation, similar to punctuation in English class.
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u/Cold_Badger2965 2d ago
I had a math teacher like this last year. It actually made me really good at notation and keeping my work clean because of how many points I got taken off b/c of it; there was a test I got like an 80% on even though I got every problem right :,)
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u/ApplicationBig9830 2d ago
4 6 7 are legit, 5 is questionable but you can not say they are wrong, your teacher is likely expecting you guys to keep on studying math after this year
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u/ApprehensiveOkra9977 1d ago
Yeah, you’re making lazy mistakes. If you plan to go further than algebra, you need to be able to solve these properly. It gets much harder than this and notation and all these “stupid points” are important
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u/cdsmith 1d ago
I think it's more subtle than that. This student definitely has a process that gets them correct answers to these questions. As a teacher here, my concern would be that it appears the student might be lacking an understanding of why the process works. If we're being fair, many of the students who are using immaculate notation are probably also missing an understanding of why the process works. But there's a limited amount a teacher can do with a sheet of paper turned in for homework, and requiring correct notation is at least something... some small but imperfect step toward checking for a correct understanding of what's going on.
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u/n0m4d1234 1d ago
Yeah, this screams of a memorized process. I have taught calculus and asked people to derive the quadratic formula from scratch (which is easy if you understand completing the square) and they all stare at me like I asked them to solve climate change. OP shows that they don't understand the process and would be one of those students.
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u/prawnydagrate 1d ago
what part of OP's working suggests that they don't understand the process?
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u/WeekendOk7163 2d ago
bruh that sucks my math teacher used to be like that when I did geometry in 8th grade like give me a break.
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u/Maximum-Rub-8913 2d ago
if you don't put an = sign, there is not statement. What you can do is put = and then jump to the next line and just put =0 right before you divide to solve.
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u/Dr0110111001101111 2d ago
You got dinged for a fraction of a point. How many points were the questions worth?
I am certain that the teacher repeatedly emphasized how they want work shown in class. You ignored that and did whatever you want. And if you got full credit, you would continue to do so. I bet you won’t now, though.
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u/Important-Poem-9747 2d ago
The equals zero matters in the equation, which is why you lost half of a point. An equation isn’t solvable without an equal sign, which you would have learned in 6th grade or earlier. Solving for x without the zero and equal sign is like saying “it’s implied” that a period ends the sentence, you don’t need to put it there.
When you’ve finished your bachelors in math, and have your teaching certificate, you can decide to do things differently.
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u/onemasterball2027 2d ago
Not petty, your work is just sloppy. Should include the = 0s for the equations.
And your answer to the first problem was straight up wrong without the +/-.
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u/thewritingtexan 2d ago
math teacher here. totally valid and not petty. like many other people comment, it changes the meaning to forget those things. im glad your teacher is doing this for you, that way you wont keep messing it up.
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u/Tight-Fan612 2d ago
Yeah so that teacher is helping you get better grades in math by showing you how to get full points for your assignments. You're just taking it the wrong way.
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u/localizeatp 1d ago
I'm guessing the reason you aren't showing the instructions at the top in this pic is because they explicitly asked for you to show this.
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u/Ambitious-Bank4559 2d ago
this is what some teachers ask for. they prolly told u b4 hand they wanted as much work as possible shown and u didn’t do that. next time just show more work
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u/Outrageous_Try_3854 2d ago
Except their work isn't correct. Proper math notation is required for work to be correct. Teaching bad habits is not beneficial to anyone
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u/Few-Teaching-9602 2d ago
Yeah, she's had petitions to have her fired in the previous years. Litterately nobody likes her
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u/WanderingPilot- Freshman (9th) 2d ago
You want someone fired for taking 3 points off homework?
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u/SafeTraditional4595 2d ago
For justifyingly taking 3 points off homework. OP is objectively using wrong math notation. They want to get a teacher fired for expecting students to use proper math notation.
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u/Imaginary_Tax_5102 2d ago
my alg 2 teacher was also like this... it's annoying but TECHNICALLY they're right because it has to be an equation. you just gotta get into the habit.
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u/Euphoric_Lynx_6664 2d ago
You need the =0 to keep your work correct. I mean you already put it at the end when you did x2 - 20 = 0, so why would you not put it in your previous steps.
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u/badumtsssst Sophomore (10th) 2d ago
Efficiency
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u/Outrageous_Try_3854 2d ago
You can't just ignore parts of the equation because you're too lazy to write it
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u/Gfran856 2d ago
Tbf this would’ve been deducted if you were taking a uni college course
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u/OkBookkeeper460 2d ago
I never lost points for anything like this all through to calc 4. If anything profs care way less in my personal experience
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u/SafeTraditional4595 2d ago
You are using objectively wrong notation. In math communicating your thinnking is as important as gettging the correct answer. Also taking points off is not a punishment, it is a form of feedback telling you to be more careful next time.
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u/Techno_Eggnog 2d ago
…hot take. I agree with the teacher.
For number 4, you really should have known to use the +/-, especially since you do that later in question 6. Also, when solving equations you must keep them as equations for clarity’s sake. You also tried to improperly use the quadratic formula to express that the entire equation just evaluates to x, but it evaluates to 0 when x is the root(s) of the quadratic formula. I actually would’ve taken more than just half a point off of that one just for that.
Another thing especially in question 6 is that you forgot to drop the (x^2 - 20) term when you expanded (x^2 - 16), and that should’ve stayed along with the rest of it. I think you just need to have a refresher on logically organizing problems. You can do it, and it shows, but your answers are arriving unsteadily and that can bite you in the ass later on.
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u/Adorable_Argument_44 2d ago
lol without the =0 it's majorly incorrect. half point is more than reasonable
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u/No_Soil2258 Senior (12th) 2d ago
Yeah idk what op is complaining about you can't just write (x-3)(x+3)(x-5) and then x=3 x=5 x=-3 there isn't even a single equation in their work lol
Edit: Even if op isn't in an ap class they should try developing better habits, you need understandable work cause the answer isn't the only thing that matters
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u/Sxd0308 Junior (11th) 2d ago
isint ur teacher like right on all of these situations 😭😭 goddamn out generation does complain about EVERYTHING in school
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u/Different-Guest-6094 Junior (11th) 2d ago
Some teachers are specific, some aren’t
But it’s crazy to expect this if she didn’t tell you ahead of time
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u/Little_Orlik College Student 2d ago
Once I got a 54% on a 2 question math test because I forgot the closing parenthesis on my sin(x in step 2 of the problem, meaning that I lost all the points on the rest of the steps as well. My work was flawless otherwise. It has been nearly 5 years and I still think about that all the time.
Justin D who teaches precalc, I hope you hit every red light you ever come upon.
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u/Graysonlyurs 2d ago
Omg my teacher does this too. I get that they are trying to make sure we dont forget steps in long problems, but it gets to a point where you are hindering me more than me not writing =0 during every step. I think teachers need to lay off on this unless the student is continously getting the wrong answer due to not writing everything oit
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u/Narrow-Durian4837 2d ago
I kind of don't blame you for being upset, and if I were your teacher, I wouldn't have taken off points for anything other than the missing ±. However...
Your work is sloppy and leaves stuff out, in ways that can very easily lead to careless errors. I've seen people post on reddit asking how they can avoid making dumb math mistakes, and the (correct) advice that is often given is to work carefully and write everything out.
Maybe in general, and certainly for this particular teacher, you'd be better off thinking in terms of communicating clearly and correctly what you're doing rather than just working out the answers,
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u/orzosity 2d ago
Two points here, work being graded instead of just the answer is usually to the benefit of the student. Lets say that each question was graded as right or wrong, you would have gotten 5,6,7 correct but you would have gotten the entirety of question 4 wrong. Also for the dropping the zero part, I don't entirely understand this but the part about just removing the (x^2-20), I don't think you can just remove that. I feel you though, i owuld freak if I were you
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u/auntanniesalligator 2d ago
INFO: How many points is each problem worth? If they’re 1 pt each then I agree losing half the possible credit is overly harsh. If they’re 5 points each, your teacher was being generous.
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u/FitTown7621 2d ago
the not being allowed to drop = 0 is crazy work. losing pts for the dropping of teh x= and +- does make sense that actually meaningfully changes the expression but as long as you initially say that is equal to zero you should be fine. u didnt in this case so i do lowk get where they're coming from but like that is a picky ahh teacher. at least yk for next time tho
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u/earthsustainer 2d ago
Why aren’t they grading in red?
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u/FeelsWowMan 2d ago
actually many teachers are told not to grade in red anymore because it's triggering
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u/awildboop College Student 2d ago
The others here are just being pretentious. Yes, your teacher is being petty. The purpose of the test is to test your understanding.
You obviously understand that, algebraically, you set to 0 to solve. How else would you still end up with the right answers and otherwise entirely correct work? Similarly, even if you didn't write (x-4)(x+4), how else would you have gotten from (x-16) to x=+-4?
It's pretty clear, imo, that the student generally understands the fundamental concepts without necessarily showing every little detail. This isn't your dissertation or world-changing maths proof.
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u/Angel_xjj Senior (12th) 2d ago
I agree with you OP, many of my math teachers were fine with me leaving out the "= 0" at the end of equations, as long as I put them back in at the end of my answers
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u/Character_Drive6141 2d ago
You aren't writing a proof, you are working towards the answer. The method is still correct. I'm a senior in a #2 engineering school (no clue why reddit recommended me this ragebait, lol) and no teacher here would ever do this. Sure it's an expression now, but the way you write it implies equivalence with the expression above on that side of the equal sign. As long as you write x=[answer] for the final result then you did solve the equation successfully. The rest is just scratchwork that only should be graded if partial credit applies (or if it shows that your work was completely wrong and you got lucky).
The top two (missing x= or the +- sign) are both valid marks off though.
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u/alexathompson007 1d ago edited 1d ago
If the teacher told the class to make sure to put “=0” then points off are valid. If not, then they should’ve gave grace and told the class after the quiz, and then take points off in the future
Maybe half is a bit too much tho, for each problem too. 1/4 off should’ve been good.
I feel like a lot of kids do skip out on the “=0” part bc they’re trying to finish the quiz in time and putting that on every problem feels unnecessary bc your putting the answer at the end anyway. I know my teacher didn’t care abt all of that bc all she needed to see was that we knew how to do the problem without guessing.
Although it would be mathematically correct to put that, most teachers only care about the actual answer being completely correct. Most teachers view the show ur work part as a way to see where u went wrong if your end result was wrong.
I think as a teacher, they should’ve guessed a lot of students would skip that part bc they’re just viewing it as a “show your work”, not an actual answer. the teacher should’ve told the class their guidelines and warned them points would be taken off. (I’m assuming off this post, they didn’t tell the class. If they did tell the class, then i recant everything because that’s a very diff story than what this post portrays)
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u/Smooth_Stock_6089 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah I would gotten points taken off for the = 0 because its a factored equation. Also,its pretty reasonable if you ask me cause one you are solving for an factored EQUATION and + or - symbol represents the solutions. Notation is IMPORTANT for Math.
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u/bigbruhusername 13h ago
Ngl I’m in college and my professors/TA’s wouldn’t take points off for that
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u/Lugnutz__ 2d ago
Adding the =0 seems nominal but it’s very important for the way you see the equation. It sets you up for the future. Teach is just doing their job, and remember, they have big classes of many people to deal with, and math only gets harder from here. Everyone learns different, so might aswell learn right.
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u/CorrePlatanooo 2d ago
Had I written what you wrote in an exam at your grade level, I think I would have had a 0, deservedly so. Think of it this way: your mathematical statements are sentences. Sentences require a subject, a verb, etc., to be complete and have meaning: you can't drop "equals", otherwise you have no verb, and you can't drop "zero"(*), otherwise you're not saying anything about your expression. Your reasoning is supposed to concatenate those sentences in a way that makes sense too. Write some logical connectors where appropriate: hence, then, therefore, so,...
As is, what you have written does not have meaning, and should consequently receive 0 points if we're being fair. The reason you get more than 0 is probably that most of your classmates have a level of understanding so poor that you're decent in comparison. That's the reason I grade my university students higher than they deserve too. There's a 20% of students who work and get it, but below that, I just have to give points they don't really deserve while I palliate the catastrophic high-school preparation throughout 4 or 5 semesters.
When I was in university, there was a clear deal: get it now, or gtfo. It was good for excellence, bad for mental health. Take advantage of the system you're in: you're being pampered. Take accountability, do better and thrive.
(*) You can write that each line equals the next, though. That can be even better, provided you conclude well at the end.
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u/itskorvael 2d ago
Your math teacher is right. None of these equations are correct without the things you left out
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u/Rich841 2d ago
None of this nitpicky shit will ever matter in real math classes in college. What is even the point of grading so pedantically
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u/VanillaBlossom09 2d ago
As a graduate Math student who also got their Bachelor's in Math, you would definitely get points off from this.
For OP, you need the =0 because that's how you were able to find what x equals for each of them. If you don't have the =0, then you can't actually say that's what x equals.
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u/Independent-Bee3135 2d ago
college math in my experience has been equally and infuriatingly nitpicky, even more than HS. might vary based on university
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u/putney96 2d ago
Notation is even more important in college math where you're expressing more complicated things and using more complicated methods—not just computing things—and so need to be entirely clear about what you're doing. I had professors who would give a straight zero for OP's answers because the notation errors make them actually technically incorrect.
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u/Jediweirdo 2d ago edited 2d ago
I guess this is somehow a blazing hot take, but getting 50% of the problem taken off for this in high school seems dumb and stupid. I see a lot of math professors and PhD students in the replies talking about this as if this person is also going to join their ranks as prestigious mathematicians or something. No, man, this is literally basic, non-AP, base-level high school math.
Why are we pretending that a teenager is someone who needs high-brow, fine-comb critiquing? For all this teacher knows they could graduate and become a plumber for god's sake. So the important part should always be knowing how to do the content, not being politically correct as if they're going to turn in their math exam to be examined by some mathematical institute. The time and place to care about otherwise correct work not having an "= 0" is when they are in college, taking a major that requires them to care that their work is properly formatted (which even then is very little since most jobs care about the end result, not the steps taken to get there). Trust me, there will be enough time in college for you to learn how to add "= 0" and other proper lables to the end of your equation work. No need to bully some kid because "that's how it is in the real world" or "that's how I was taught"
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u/nighty_time 2d ago
Yeah, 50% is extreme. I assume each problem is worth multiple points though, and "-1/2" means losing half a point.
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u/Confidence-Upbeat 2d ago
Well it’s like a student forgetting to use punctuation at all in his essay.
Some basic level of correctness must be required
But I’d just take off a point
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u/marty-mcfryguy 1d ago
You're really going to quibble m over whether 50% is the exactly right amount of points to take off? On one assignment?
This is fine, and certainly isn't "bullying". The teacher wants all intermediate work to be precise, presumably so they don't have to go around guessing what you meant, whether apparent or confusing.
This is a cheap and easy way to learn the lesson that you need to produce work consistent with what's expected, and doing less can have consequences. Which is a great lesson that this student can carry with them to anything they work on.
"Bullying", lol.
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u/delsystem32exe 2d ago
retarded. usually these teachers do not have exposure to more advanced maths so they nitpick these trivial things. generally these teachers actually are one of the weakest in there math understanding, although counterintuitive, trust me on that.
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u/Optimal_Risk_7961 2d ago
I mean, it's kinda sucky that the teacher took off all these points. At the same time, he/she is right. Your work should be neat and make sense regardless of if you got the answer. Some answers are technically wrong without it as well. Like plus or minus is imperative because then you just said +5i and didn't account for the other possible answer of -5i. You also can't find the answer without the =0 on quadratics otherwise it's just an expression not an equation and therefore you would only be able to simplify to (x-3)(x+3)(x-5) for example and not x=3,-3,5. Question 5 is just making it neat and following the equation, though.
But I'd also be sort of mad if my teacher took off points just because of it, so not completely blaming you.
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u/Least-Regular-4358 1d ago
bro not even calculus bc requires this much work shown. like if they wanted work to be this explicit, then they should specify that in the problem statement. If I were grading, any intermediate work would just be scratch work, and I would look for the general idea; but the final answer should have x = and be mathematically correct.
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u/wirywonder82 1d ago
Having marked an AP calc exam, they definitely would require this work be shown, and they would require the equal signs.
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u/Dependent-Entrance56 18h ago
Im pretty sure not including +- would be an instant 0. You are missing half the roots
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u/JonAyer1 2d ago
You need to go along with what your math teacher instructs you to do. Showing all of your work correctly makes a huge difference. I got an A in junior level math in college my freshman year because I had scrutiny like this from my algebra and precalculus teachers from high school. Also showing as much work as you can correctly convinces your teacher that you know your stuff. Apply this teacher’s scrutiny on all of your math work from now on. Trust me.
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u/Signal_State_5505 2d ago
removing pints for small errors like these outside of ap are so silly, even in honors i wouldnt lose points for this
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u/Dani_kn 2d ago
I tutor on the side, I have an honors math degree. OP is exactly like 1 of my student right now, he keeps forgetting the same thing as the one in your picture. He can replicate the steps well enough but can't solve an unseen type of problem. This is because you and him are not learning math if you keep doing this at your level, you are replicating the steps and you will forget every formula/methods in the future because of that. Like he forget how to factor after 1 month of not doing any factoring, I haven't factored anything in 5 years and still remember for example.
So OP, if you don't understand why you got the points deducted, you need to learn why instead of complaining.
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u/Blibbyblobby72 2d ago edited 2d ago
Well, you got the top left question wrong, and your teacher's correction is also wrong. So, the loss of marks is valid (but not for the seemingly proscribed reason)
You do need to show the equation equals zero and show what x equals for the top right question. Your working is otherwise fine. I would take the 0.5 marks from you as well
I see no problem with the bottom left. It is messy, but it is pretty clear you split the two factors off. Showing they equal 0 is very important - you can't use the idea of null factors unless all the factors have a product of 0. I might take 0.5 marks off for that
Same applies to the bottom right. I am okay with students factoring the equation without equating it to 0, but you can't evaluate x in the final line without stating it is equal to 0
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u/Optimistiqueone 2d ago
Your teacher is setting her standard. Now you know for future assignments. Her standard is correct BTW.
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u/ingannilo 2d ago
There are several not-notation issues here that deserve points being deducted. Most offensively sqrt(-5) is sqrt(5)i not 5i.
If the problems required one to "factor completely over the integers", then failing to factor x2-16 as(x-4)(x+4) is fair, but otherwise I'd not deduct points.
Failing to write "x=" again isn't something I'd penalize for, but it's context sensitive. What are you supposed to be learning about? If the whole purpose here is to solve and understand these equations, then requiring you to indicate that you understand the solutions are values of the variable x (especially when the process halts and jumps to a formula not previously part of the process) is par for the course.
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u/everythingistaken587 2d ago
Am I crazy or is the first question +-i*sqrt(5), the teacher didn’t even give the right correction lmao
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u/Opening_Ad_8993 2d ago
I have a feeling your teacher spoke about it before in class which is why she grades so harshly
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u/Certain-Flamingo-311 2d ago
I am not specifically a math teacher but, I am a teaher and I do remember what all my teachers told me or something similar growing up. Having the wrong final answer but showing your work will earn you more points then just having the answer with no work shown. Knowing how to do the answer is more important because with a different set of numbers you may not get so lucky and be completly off instead of off by like one or two numbers.
Yes you did get the right answer but you didn't do it the correct way, and your teacher seems nicer than my teachers were with subtracting points.
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u/ShiningEspeon3 2d ago
Even if you don’t go on to use algebra in your future, technical communication is a very important skill to develop and correctly writing your mathematics emphasizes that skill. It’s not just about having the correct answer. It’s also about presenting your process in a clear, coherent, and correct way.
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u/Wide-Spread9866 2d ago
it is kind of nit picky but for show your work assignments they arent grading the answer theyre grading the work. multiple choice is where you can be messy
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u/Agile-Gift1068 Freshman (9th) 2d ago
Instead of docking points for every little thing, my teacher says "I won't take off for this, but just know you're supposed to do it like this, not like this". I actually don't know what happens if you don't put the =0 or x= since I've never not put the =0 or x= in situations they need to be.
Also why did the teacher mark for not having +- rather than putting sqrt(x) instead of sqrt(x^2)? The latter is much more important to get right. If you're going to take off points for only one of them, it should be that one.
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u/R1V3RG1RL 2d ago
I'm a physics teacher. My students need to draw it, write the correct equation, and do the math (WITH SI units). On tests the right answer is worth way less points than the rest of the problem (e.g. if a problem is worth 3 points, the correct answer is often only 1/2 a point).
For homework, I often give them the answers so they can check their work.
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u/SapphicWARRI0R 2d ago
ur 100% in the wrong but i feel like they shouldnt have taken off points. she should have put a warning for the first quiz, and then for the rest she should have taken points off bc its incorrect
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u/candiedstarsVI 2d ago
you're only losing 1/2 a point because you aren't properly showing your work. as your teacher literally says "you can't drop this". Showing your work properly is one of the fundamentals of math. not including parts or just drawing an arrow is how you make errors. Your teacher is doing you a favor, teachers letting you get this far into high school without stressing the importance of showing your work is a failure on their parts
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u/Sea-Set-540 2d ago
Here’s the hard part- they actually aren’t being that petty. I have math teachers that I have both had personally and worked with in the past- they would dock ALL the points- not just a partial dock. At minimum- you need to at least remember to put it in the first couple of lines, and then again at the end- to show you didn’t forget.
I have had one math teacher personally tell me that he hates grading everything- and how just leaving one phrase answers would make his life easier. However- he valued students showing work and understanding the topic- so he insists on getting the work to give partial credit back- especially if they are showing a solid level of understanding.
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u/Mcdangs88 2d ago
Honestly take this to heart. Get so mad it deters you from doing anything that requires mathematical precision in society.
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u/Key_Scheme3516 2d ago
Nah your teacher is valid. Your final simplification is wrong. It’s missing half of it.
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u/ASentientHam 2d ago
When you write solutions on paper, you're communicating your ideas. You've communicated them incorrectly. Would you expect to see work of your quality in a textbook? No, of course not, you'd expect the author of a textbook to communicate their mathematical ideas clearly and accurately.
Yeah sure you can argue that you're not a textbook author and you aren't perfect. But if you're not perfect then why would you expect a perfect mark?
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u/Same_Winter7713 2d ago
All of these are reasonable points off. I would have gotten tortured and killed in the math department's lounge if I did any of these past freshman year in my pure math undergrad.
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u/teacherJoe416 2d ago
The teacher is correct for deducting marks for this. I don't love that you were deducted marks for the same error multiple times. I would need to see the marking scheme on the entire test to see if this is fair or not.
I would’ve gotten like a 95 if it werent for these stupid points
This is a very childish and pathetic statement. If you want a perfect mark, hand in perfect work. Look at your class notes and you'll see your teacher did each example in the way they expected you to do it. Learn from your mistakes and move if you want to improve.
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u/Vantherion 2d ago
As a math teacher, I wouldn't deduct points for showing your work like you did as long as you arrived to the correct answer. I know some students like to "simplify" their work by removing things they aren't directly working with and that's fine by me. What's not fine is if they "simplify" their work and get it wrong. Then they are going to fast and this is creating errors.
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u/burghsportsfan 2d ago
If you’re going to use the Zero Product Property, you better show that you have a product that equals zero.
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u/No-Raspberry-2647 2d ago
I'm in honors classes, and my math teacher is a bit strict too, but honestly, all that I get wrong are things that seem small and unimportant to me but actually really matter in the end. It makes getting anything above a 90 super rewarding, though! Plus, the good thing is it makes me work a lot harder to get the grades I want 🤣
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u/LuckyCod2887 2d ago
bro, why do you put a small workspace? why are the boxes so fucking tiny?
also, unfortunately, some math teachers are like this. They’re like this in university as well. they act like everyone’s a fucking math major in graduate school.
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u/Leather-Prior3926 2d ago
ITT: we separate the people who were able to get the right answer without really understanding what math is about from the people who were pedantic and bored enough to attend to the details.
They both think they're doing math. Only one of them is correct.
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u/Kingmelo62 2d ago
Nah, that is definitely on you. Dropping the = sign makes it no longer an equation and you’re not evaluating here
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u/Even_Mycologist110 2d ago
As an engineering student, my math better be petty. But for you, if you feel fine being wrong, and accepting that grade, then your math is fine. But it is wrong. sqrt-5 doesn’t equal 5i
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u/Brilliant-Music7273 2d ago
Awwww brother they get pretty fucken petty … especially with all the AI running around … watch your 6 !
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u/m1emilk3rs 2d ago
ur just salty ur teacher picked up on mistakes you made. be grateful you’re losing these points on a minor test and not an important one. you r the petty one lmfaoo
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u/ArtfulsSockPuppet 2d ago
fucking wild saying “no”, like the fuck you mean no? If my teacher ever did this I would commit some acts I may or may not regret in the future.
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u/ZLCZMartello 2d ago
It's just a polynomial in #7 you're writing. What are you solving for? Zeros are very important points for polynomials (see Riemann hypothesis). Without the =0 the expression does not make sense, tbh.
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u/Amazing-Ad9604 2d ago
Got points taken off for not writing my limits😂 during my Calc 1 and 2
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u/Amazing-Ad9604 2d ago
But pretty petty for this type to f math level tho. There’s always room for development but no need for teacher to be petty, unless this is the second or third exam…
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u/delyurka 2d ago
As a math major, I fully understand the reasoning of taking away points by not writing =0. And it's not only because of the difference between equations and expressions, but because of the methods. Sometimes, to solve an equation you need to work with both parts. It's not needed in simple equations like these, so they are a GOOD TRAINING to get to these habits. You may add something to both sides, you may multiply them, or do some other non-trivial staff. In high school, some methods of differential equations are easier to solve by working with each side independently, like separation of variables, and going from XYZ = 0 to something like A = B is very important and you need to clarify what you are doing on each side and specify if you are not changing anything in one.
And writing full equation that you DID NOT affect other side of the equation. It's for clarity, as someone who is not your teacher, who taught you how to solve these, cannot get the way you solve these by first glance. That's disrespect.
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u/iLikePotatoes65 2d ago
Honestly I'd give you a -0.75 for the missing zeros just because the amount of zeros you missed
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u/Worth-Staff4943 2d ago
The whole point is to be precise during the fundamentals stage so that when you get to calculus or higher level math you don't make these kinds of mistakes which will cause you to get the problem wrong
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u/a1hens 2d ago
not even remotely true, the only thing that matters for a paper test is the teacher fully seeing your understanding and thought process, op has demonstrated that. It means nothing to write = 0 on each step, your explicit structure only matters for proofs which is not what this is testing on.
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u/Independent-Plum4942 2d ago
yeah thats all your fault dude sorry you cant drop those basic things.
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u/Sea-Brick8308 2d ago
if the teacher said they expected work to be shown in a certain way and you didnt follow it, i think its fair. otherwise i think the deductions are a bit harsh
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u/nighty_time 2d ago
I think these are reasonable things to penalize. You mention you would've scored a 95%, but I think these are fundamental mistakes that make the difference between your score and 95% accuracy.
However, I understand why you think it's petty. You do understand most of the steps, but the less than correct justification made you lose points. I think understanding why you must include "=0" will reinforce your knowledge though. That way, you'll completely understand what you're doing.
Keep your head up though. You have good foundation, and I'm sure you can do better on the next test/quiz!
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u/RunReal959595 2d ago
As someone who actually used to teach university math classes I wouldn’t have taken points off like this. Maybe left a note to help guide you, but the thought process is obviously there.
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u/placidv99 2d ago
A lot of mixed opinions so I'll also chip in and say I don't think it's petty. You need your math work to make sense on paper; that's why you're given the space to show your work. Yes your working was correct but you can only do what you did to a polynomial equation, which you didn't have because you didn't equate it to zero.
And I don't buy the excuse of time restraints: it takes less than a second to write "=0" in a line
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u/SpecialistNo7642 2d ago
As a teacher, I would be happy you can do this level of work if it was a remedial math class. Are you in a lower track for math? If you are in a honors class, teachers can hold you to a higher standard. If they expect you to move onto an AP class, they could be doing this to prep you for the future.
How much were each question worth? 2 points? 4 points? Teacher is nice they even considered taking half a point instead of a full point. Honestly, I wouldn't want to bother with fractions of a point. Take it as a warning and be mindful of it next time.
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u/Lonely_Wafer 2d ago
you should have gotten zero points for question 4. you forgot the square root as well
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u/ActiveAccount1279 2d ago
Reminds me of my mother's maths teacher who would mark you down if you didn't write your name in the specific format he asked for. like bruh just be glad you showed your working
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u/Andra_Ingensbarn 2d ago
Ignoring anything that’s actually wrong, having worked in science research with people from 50+ countries, you have to communicate in an agreed upon language. We did not have one universal language apart from maths. You have to do it the way everyone else does.
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u/topiary566 1d ago
Coming from someone who majored in math in college, none of this stuff matters from a math perspective. You got the right answer and showed enough work to demonstrate that you understood what you are doing.
What does matter is being able to follow orders even if it doesn't make logical sense.
You can try to negotiate points back from the teacher or maybe escalate it, which may or may not work. However, the most important takeaway is to just do what the teacher tells you to do so you can get a good grade.
There are times where it is worth fighting for things, but there are also times where it's worth just sparing your energy. In general, the way you want to do life is to put effort into the things you truly care about (or things you need to do to survive) while trying your best not to lose any sleep over things which really don't matter.
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u/potentialeight 1d ago
None of this is petty. Doing it the way you’re being graded on is the point, not just finding the right answer.
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u/hpxvzhjfgb 1d ago
I have a math degree and comment on /r/learnmath a lot and see people complaining about "unnecessarily harsh" grading a lot.
in the majority of cases, the teacher/professor is correct and it's the student who is being sloppy or just doesn't have the experience to tell the difference between what they wrote and a correct solution. this post is no exception.
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u/oliviaiaia23 Middle Schooler 1d ago
I love how all the math unc nerds are mad at u and showing how lame they rly are 😭💀
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u/Apprehensive_War265 1d ago
ur teacher is in the right, learn the correct things instead of crying about it, it will help you in the future.
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u/taxiviaalfa 1d ago
You're lucky you didn't lose a full mark. My high school math teacher didn't do half marks. Either you got the full mark or you lost it. I'd say your teacher was being lenient here
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u/Ok_Application_3068 1d ago
Bullshit. If it’s an AP or college class then your teacher is totally in the right, but this is absurd for regular high school algebra. If your teacher wants to grade like this they should teach a different class
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u/Maximum_Bathroom3490 1d ago
Showing work is important. Just writing the quadratic formula is just lazy and may even show lack of understanding. Just putting the answers without putting x= is just not answering the question at all. Not putting =0 is just lazy and takes 3 strokes so that you show that you're using the same equation every time.
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u/CIS_Professor 1d ago
Paying attention to the details is a real thing.
That this is isn't an AP course isn't relevant.
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u/Annyunatom 1d ago
this is okay. i would have deducted 1/2 points maybe on one or two of those. but that’s just how each teacher’s rubric works. i don’t see a problem
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u/Zekeboy550 Junior (11th) 2d ago
I mean, missing the plus minus and not putting x= is definitely something you will lose marks on.
Lowk I don’t think your teacher is being petty. It seems to be how you’d properly write it. It can be annoying but just write the = 0 lol. It’s really not that hard, and it’s needed to remember how to do things. It’s easy to mess up things like that.
Edit: my teacher words it as the fact that you’re solving it. It must equal 0. Otherwise it’s an expression.