Let's talk about Harry Potter

[u/AMVilla86]

… and other problematic IP

Hi folks,

We need your input. The mods have been discussing for a bit now about crafts with complicated Intellectual Property creators. Occasionally a craft will receive reports due to the theme of the craft and not about crafting itself. While we try to be as open-minded as possible, and we follow sitewide rules (such as no hate speech targeting identity or vulnerability, etc), there is still some nuance with moderating these types of posts. These posts have raised many questions, but we realized we needed to ask the community what they thought. If the community is uncomfortable with something, we want to know and be sure to moderate appropriately.

Some of the ideas we had so far, and why they would be tough to implement:

- Ban specific IP→ Where do we draw the line of what is and isn’t allowed?

- Create specific flair for ‘problematic’ → again, where is the line drawn?

- When a post receives enough reports about the theme and not the craft, leave a high-level moderator comment explaining how to block a user and/or hide a post → might be ignoring a problem rather than solving the issue for the sub.

With that being said, there’s only so much we can police. We want crafters to feel welcome, but with all the moderating we do, it would be hard to add on a layer of “educate a crafter on why the creator of this IP is bad” on top of our normal roles. We also don’t want our subreddit to become a lightning rod for debate. Ultimately, we are a crafts subreddit. While a few comments about inspiration of a craft is allowed, and questioning of said inspiration is also welcome, once we're many comments deep in multiple comment threads with no mention of crafting, it is no longer an appropriate conversation for r/crafts. There are many other subreddits for discussion and debate where you can converse.

So, what do you all think we should do with these types of posts? If we receive a large variety of ideas, we'll put it together in a survey or poll to further gauge how the subreddit feels. Also, feel free to message the mods if you're uncomfortable commenting on the post.

[u/redoingredditagain]

I ethically hate Harry Potter but I also hate censorship. I worry about it devolving into banning Steven King IP for child abuse or animal abuse, or so-and-so for supporting a war, or such-and-such creator who tweeted something in poor taste.

I really don’t see a problematic tag doing too much for the community, and I think it would upset some people for their posts to be labeled problematic when they clearly don’t think it is. Someone’s love of a children’s series isn’t always rooted in bigotry, even if they are perpetuating it by keeping her and her views relevant and lining her pockets with more money to do bigoted politics.

I believe censorship is worse in this instance, but transphobic comments (and anti-semitism, racism, and all the things that come with JKR and her work) can be banned. I am a trans person of color, and while I wish her IP would get lost, I fear the future of other bans, as stated before.

I am a firm believer in keeping her work from public relevance (because even “she didn’t profit from my crafts/fic/art!” keeps her and her IP relevant and popular), but I don’t think here is the place to have that battle.

[u/sillygoofygooose → u/redoingredditagain]

Out of curiosity - where is the right place for that battle? Because pushing against populist bigotry is going to be unpopular by definition. I struggle to think of an impactful place to discuss this where it won’t frustrate some

[u/redoingredditagain → u/sillygoofygooose]

People post crafts here out of love & passion. There is no perfect place to have such a discussion, but on someone’s hard work steeped in such passion, it will only ever be seen as a personal attack. I think more general spaces is where education might happen best (social media, the news, articles, in person friend groups and circles), but even then, people who have a deep nostalgia for their childhoods might not ever change despite the real, active, and tangible harm JKR has done to the world.

I’m not saying that that there are places that the discussion can’t happen, but I just think in a sub where people post passion crafts is going to be one of the least effective places possible. A lot of people double down when they feel they are being attacked.

[u/sillygoofygooose → u/redoingredditagain]

You may be right, but it is interesting that this argument matches exactly the one most often levelled against political protests in general. Sadly disturbing the status quo - even one that is vile like transphobia - is always going to make a lot of people uncomfortable

[u/redoingredditagain → u/sillygoofygooose]

I believe we have to fight transphobia and other bigotry in every space, but I guess what I’m trying to say is that the people making and posting Harry Potter crafts are not really the people who are going to suddenly go “oh no, I’ve been perpetuating bigoted content! I have seen the errors of my ways and will stop immediately.”

It’s me being more realistic than anything else. And I’m against a total ban due to censorship anyway.

[u/sillygoofygooose → u/redoingredditagain]

I mean yeah, people don’t tend to change their beliefs right away. That’s why climate change also isn’t solved, and you’d better believe ‘this is stupid because it inconveniences me a lot/makes me feel bad’ is the most common response to attempts to change people’s minds on that.