Let's talk about Harry Potter

[u/AMVilla86]

… and other problematic IP

Hi folks,

We need your input. The mods have been discussing for a bit now about crafts with complicated Intellectual Property creators. Occasionally a craft will receive reports due to the theme of the craft and not about crafting itself. While we try to be as open-minded as possible, and we follow sitewide rules (such as no hate speech targeting identity or vulnerability, etc), there is still some nuance with moderating these types of posts. These posts have raised many questions, but we realized we needed to ask the community what they thought. If the community is uncomfortable with something, we want to know and be sure to moderate appropriately.

Some of the ideas we had so far, and why they would be tough to implement:

- Ban specific IP→ Where do we draw the line of what is and isn’t allowed?

- Create specific flair for ‘problematic’ → again, where is the line drawn?

- When a post receives enough reports about the theme and not the craft, leave a high-level moderator comment explaining how to block a user and/or hide a post → might be ignoring a problem rather than solving the issue for the sub.

With that being said, there’s only so much we can police. We want crafters to feel welcome, but with all the moderating we do, it would be hard to add on a layer of “educate a crafter on why the creator of this IP is bad” on top of our normal roles. We also don’t want our subreddit to become a lightning rod for debate. Ultimately, we are a crafts subreddit. While a few comments about inspiration of a craft is allowed, and questioning of said inspiration is also welcome, once we're many comments deep in multiple comment threads with no mention of crafting, it is no longer an appropriate conversation for r/crafts. There are many other subreddits for discussion and debate where you can converse.

So, what do you all think we should do with these types of posts? If we receive a large variety of ideas, we'll put it together in a survey or poll to further gauge how the subreddit feels. Also, feel free to message the mods if you're uncomfortable commenting on the post.

[u/Calm-Counter7510]

I am very against HP and definitely roll my eyes when I see anyone "celebrating" it through merch etc, since a cut of that goes into JKRs pocket. However, crafting something is actually not giving any money to JKR, so is I guess is one of the most harmless HP related things someone could do?

That aside - I don't think the mods should be trying to ban/police posts making crafts in relation to specific problematic fandoms. That would feel very weird and I could also see it going downhill very quickly. 

I think the high level moderator comment idea would make the most sense. Aa a casual browser of this sub, and one who does have strong political views at that, I don't think much past that is needed? Its a crafts sub, about making crafts. Policing the subject matter of a craft seems really unnecessary

[u/Concept_Check → u/Calm-Counter7510]

This is my opinion on this as well. The moderator top comment could also serve as the spot for commenters to explain why that IP is problematic. Educate people and hope for change in the future.

Like, I’m someone who grew up loving HP and it’s been a difficult road to cutting it from my life in meaningful ways. I understand why it’s hard for others. I would rather have them post and learn than be banned from posting it.

[u/settingdogstar → u/[deleted]]

Oh no…I mean he wasn’t as bad as JK but boy oh boy do I have some news for you lol

[u/tonicella_lineata → u/settingdogstar]

The problem with JKR is not her views alone. The problem is the way she uses her cultural, political, and economic influence right now to push those views, and the harm she causes right now while doing so. Gene Roddenberry was no saint, but he also is not currently harming anybody. Nor has the IP owner (Paramount) explicitly stated that support of Star Trek is tantamount to support for Roddenberry's worst views, the way JKR has for Harry Potter.

[u/settingdogstar → u/tonicella_lineata]

Yall don’t gotta preach all the time. I’m aware, that’s why I said “not as bad”

Try reading over playingg keyboard warrior mansplainer

[u/tonicella_lineata → u/settingdogstar]

I mean, they're not even really on the same scale, though? The person you were responding to said if he was doing "the same thing." And he very much did not.

It's not "preaching" to point out differences in scale of harm. If someone doesn't want to watch Star Trek (or Coraline, or Pulp Fiction, etc. etc.) because of personal feelings about the creator's actions, that's totally fair! But engaging in those things is not actively contributing to ongoing harm in the same way, because those creators are not currently using the cultural sway granted by their IP to create a massive political platform, with the explicit intent of further disenfranchising an entire marginalized group. And treating them like they're remotely equivalent is a huge part of the problem, because JKR relies on people railing against "cancel culture" as part of how she keeps her massive audience.

[u/GenericWhyteMale → u/tonicella_lineata]

What did Coraline’s creator do? I love that movie and book

[u/tonicella_lineata → u/GenericWhyteMale]

Gaiman was accused last year of sexually assaulting and grooming several women. The (multiple) lawsuits over it were dismissed, and he insists it was a smear campaign, but one of the victims worked with a journalist to do a pretty major report on it, and several of the details matched to other people's stories and things like that. Plus I know at least one of the lawsuits was mostly dismissed on the basis of jurisdiction, since it was filed in the US (I believe due to where Gaiman was living at the time?) but the assaults in question happened in New Zealand.

[u/GenericWhyteMale → u/tonicella_lineata]

Ugh that’s awful. I’m glad I got the physical copy a long time ago, fuck supporting him

[u/tonicella_lineata → u/GenericWhyteMale]

Yeah, I was a huge fan of his work for a very long time, and I'll admit there's definitely some works I still enjoy - but I'm definitely not giving him any of my money ever again.

[u/settingdogstar → u/tonicella_lineata]

And I said he wasnt as bad. I don’t treat them as equivalent. Yall are so annoying with your incessant need to see the worst in people’s comments. Insufferable.

Again, try reading what people say not what you want to hear.

[u/middle_age_zombie → u/settingdogstar]

That’s the problem, some of the worst people make the best stuff. Or they are great in one area, but suck in another. I have an issue with JKR and I did not grow up with HP so it isn’t a big deal to no longer give her money. But, I did Star Trek TNG and you will pry my love for ST from my cold dead hands.

Sometimes the thing that people love will go way beyond the person that created it. I don’t fault anyone for still loving their fandom, it might have gotten them through hard times and it’s hard to let go. We all have to make our own choices, I can think of plenty of things that people love that I find the creators behind appalling.