Political Question
What makes a pro-Palestine peace protestor turn violent against someone who allegedly tells them to do something about it, leaving the victim with broken knees (according to his account)?
What needs to happen to ensure that people can speak their minds around these demonstrations without fearing for their physical safety?
Because the Pro Palestine movement is a violent one?
"from the river to the sea" and anti Zionism are calls for a 2nd Holocaust, even if they pretend to not understand the meaning of what they are saying, it's not a surprise that the followers of a violent ideology are violent
Specifically when someone protests for peace and anti-violence it's extreme to think their automatic reaction to something as simple as an opinion would be violence
Yes different side of the same coin. A few years ago, I would have said it was a MAGA phenomenon. But it seems they were right about the left all along. both sides are just crazy.
“Leftist Islamists are violent”
“MAGA are also violent”
“True!”
“So both are violent!”
“Downvotes”
This is absolutely true. The difference is that Islamist / leftists are a minority and do not represent liberals. MAGA do represent the whole conservative movement.
US society is general is pretty violent. Seen plenty of fights break out at football games. When people are passionately for or against something it is what you get.
It's so easy to just dismiss any sort of criticism as "propaganda". But the truth is that at this point most people perceive the pro-Palestinian movement as indignant, obnoxious moral fetishists who insist on violently inserting themselves wherever. Want a cup of coffee? Want to go to a concert? Want to go to a Christmast event in the mall? Want to grieve your close ones who were lost to war and terrorism? Want to protest other atrocities and war crimes? Too bad, the propals will show up to make it about them and ruin it for you.
I have no idea where you're getting this nonsense. "Most people" don't think any such thing. Most people see Palestinian lives as having been fragmented and controlled and subjected to constant uncertainty, where ordinary routines like work, travel and family life had to be navigated under decades of military control, and added to that attacks by "settlers" and overblown reactionary extreme acts of violence by the military at any pushback perceived as violent. You know, like when Israeli soldiers shoot unarmed kids for throwing rocks.
I'm the last one to justify the settler terrorism in WB, and the backup they get from the IDF. It's something I criticize constantly and harshly, and pay prices for that.
But that's not the message I often get from the propal crowd. In fact, most of them can't tell the WB apart from Gaza. And the tiny bits of rational criticism against settler terrorism drown in a sea of deranged, unhinged, revisionist, downright antisemitic takes, like "Israel is a colonial terrorist state that shouldn't exist," and "Israeli Jews are Europeans that should go back to Poland," or the classic "the Palestinians let them in in 1948 and they stole their country in return", typically littered with accusations such as the Jews Zionist of being pedophile bloodthirsty sociopaths, and 7.10 denialism ("there were no rapes", "it was a black flag", "Hannibal directive").
Maybe that's just my experience, but I hardly heard of anyone who had, y'know, a civil conversation in these spaces. It always unhinged edginess that leaves very little room for constructive criticism or working towards a solution rooted in the fact that both Israelis and Palestinians are in this space, they cannot share a country, and they have to find a way to live with each other.
The truth is 80% of the people are against the Israeli genocide.
You are either retarded, delusional or so far deep in the pedophile cult you can't accept reality
We hold every other nation-state accountable to international law and human rights standards, where criticizing the US, France, or China doesn't mean you hate Americans, the French, or Chinese people. Holding the Israeli government to those same standards is basic consistency, not antisemitism.
You'd have to be disingenuous or really dumb to hold the position you've espoused.
And do you reckon that statements like "You are either retarded, delusional or so far deep in the pedophile cult you can't accept reality" constitute "holding Israel accountable to international law", or does it go a little bit beyond that?
What are the other options a person would have to deny the reality that Israel is committing war crimes and killing civilians.
Sorry, there should be a forth option; you are an inherently evil person that think it's ok for Israel to slaughter civilians.
It must be one of those four options.
Love that you equate Israel's war crimes with being Jewish. The two are mutually exclusive.
Antisemitism lol
You do know the Zionist of Israel made a deal with the Nazis in 1933 to leave Germany with their money to British Palestine called the havaara agreement? It left the other Jewish sects to be persecuted by the Nazis and killed by the Nazis. They in turn are complicit in the holocaust and now are committing geo oxide and are baby killers.
gtfooh with this conspiratard propaganda. Yes, there was such an agreement, It was called haavara (העברה), not havaar (which is just gibberish). It didn't "leave the other Jewish sects" because Zionism is not a "Jewish sect." It just describes people who were willing to leave Europe, essentially. Also, there were 160k Jews in Germany before the holocaust; 97% of the Jewish casualties lived in countries invaded by Germany, especially Poland and Ukraine, so using העברה as a smoking gun proving "the Zionists were in on it" or whatever is next-level revisionism.
Umm, who knows what made the psycho snap. Just because someone is not a Zionist does not make them a safe or sane person. It just means they are right about one issue, but still might be totally crazy.
Typical. Ignorant protestor just loves the rebellious feeling but can't handle truth that contradicts thier beliefs. What's the old saying? I f you can't beat em, beat em up.
There's another one I like too: Don't argue with idiots. They'll just lower you to their level and beat you with experience.
Its kinda obvious, look at the 39 second mark, 2 people a man and a women gently sheperd him away, earlier someone sticks a flag in front of the camera so that the attackers face isnt filmed.
If you have been paying attention the last 10 years these kinda tactics are standard in left wing mobs.
‘Differing opinion’ isn’t screaming provocative shit in people’s face.
That’s fighting words. He got what he wanted, he just wasn’t ready to defend himself.
If someone went to a holocaust vigil and screamed they should’ve fought back better I wouldn’t think them the victim if people attacked them.
The non-violence agreement in society is a contract, not a shield. You can’t be out there encouraging and defending violence and then be surprised when that topic turns violent.
I guess this Mitch loser is fine with the IDF breaking the knees of Palestinians.
Some lady tried to throw eggs at the ladt protest I was at, was she also a victim when someone tackled her to stop her from doing that? Always the victim.
I played devils advocate when I first started on Reddit. So the people that I mostly agreed with downvoted me right off of the platforms I was a part of. This site is one of the most censored “free speech” platforms. Same as the rest of them. We are teaching our free country that if you can’t downvote them
Into silence then you can beat them into submission.
I think it’s because they western Palestine activists think they have the moral righteousness or moral authority given to them by calling the war a genocide they feel as though they’re justified in anything.
Like if you disagree with them at all, you’re signing on and agreeing with the destruction of the Palestinian people and I guess no longer given moral consideration.
Fo where? In Gaza? Israel destroyed its last airport in 2006. Also, Israel blockade every entry to the strip so nobody can get in. If you try to go by sea, Israel will arrest you, torture you and sexually assault you.
Kind of partially proving my point. Though violence isn’t possible online, you just resort mindless name calling when you see something you don’t like. And yet you call me a low level thinker. 🤔
It makes no sense you are protesting to stop violence but you are happy to inflict it.
People in these groups and other ones setup these situation to cause more violence they are agitators. Far left, far right, they are all going to end up in the same mess.
There was a downvote when I came in.
Kids, learn the criminal code instead of supporting violence and growing up as the adults in this video.
It’s embarrassing to see that they let the assaulter go away, instead of blocking him and calling the police.
Well he just accepted the gentleman's invitation. Don't tell people to "do something about it" if you're not in fact prepared for them to do something about it.
‘Do something about it’ i.e. do something about Israel’s genocide against Palestinians. The Palestinians tried peacefully protesting with things like the Great March of Return. Ironically the IDF shot out people’s knees with snipers in response.
If your oppressor meets your demands for peace with violence, striking back with violence to achieve that peace isn’t self-contradictory. The standard of violence is set by the oppressor.
That said it would’ve been better if this guy was asked to fuck off and escorted away by protest guards or police. Now he gets to do propaganda like this, just like he had hoped (minus a broken knee). Lets not pretend the provocateur wasn’t hoping for a clippable reaction.
I don’t think any knees should be broken. But I think if you go looking for a fight and get it, you are a complete loser for crying about the consequences.
It really is such a cry bully thing to throw fighting words in defence of genocide and then act like the victim when you get that fight.
Perhaps you need to reread the edit of my comment where I explain what I would prefer happened.
I don't think they are protesting for universal peace, but to stop the wanton genocide of the Palestinian people. There is a distinction. I have attended demonstrations against the war in Iraq in 2002, for example, and would have cheerfully fulfilled the request of any red-nosed boomer Republicans who invited me to "do something about it." Palestinians deserve peace. Fascists don't.
Are you saying some people deserve peace and some don't, and that's based on their political views?
So if the Palestinians support Trump, suddenly it'd be okay to be violent against them? Because to be fair, most of them are a bit more conservative than even MAGA supporters
Yes I am saying the Palestinians deserve to live in peace on their own land without having it stolen from them and that anyone who thinks otherwise is a stooge for Israeli war criminals. I have as little sympathy for such people getting attacked for opening their yaps as any other breed of fascist punk.
I’m not out here fighting provocateurs. I’d laugh at that loser till he got embarrassed. I have been in similar situations.
Im not out here throwing fighting words either and then crying when I get a fight. That’s loser shit. I bet the police are annoyed with these provocateurs who intentionally go fishing for a fight/beating.
You evidently do not know the criminal code, if you laugh about such situations and think that the police is as misinformed as you are. I'm sorry that you didn't get that level of education.
It’s not. But just like I’m not categorising two guys in a bar insulting each other turning violent as ‘aSsAuLt’ I don’t think a provocateur getting exactly what he wanted (minus the broken knee) as assault.
Let’s not pretend he wasn’t there to get a clip exactly like this.
Unlike how the last protest some random lady was about to throw eggs at us. That’d be assault. But you’d probably cry how a protest guard tackled her to stop her.
It was a sucker punch. Don't be violent, it hurts the cause.
I don't buy the broken knee btw, the dude would be in a lot more pain. I also would not be surprised if Mossad has false flags like this to make Palestinian anti-genocide protestors look bad.
Also agree with the knee thing. I have seen people break and/or dislodge their knee...they do not speak. As for who the guy is I do not know but it seems like he may just be a professional agitator on the right from the comments here and people at the protest who recognized him.
I dunno, I recently took a fall. my left arm took the brunt of it, my left knee was still bruised and swollen. Knees are tricky. Also adrenaline pushes pain away.
As for as agitating, 2024 gay pride. Not too long after 10/7/23 I hassled people in the parade for carrying Palestine flags. “Ya know, Hamas kills gays, you shouldn’t be here”. Third group I did that too threatened me. Was like, ok, better go him and sober up. Last two years though, I have mitigated my attitude towards Palestinians.
My point is, I was a lone actor. 10/7 was still in my head then, well still is. Still what Gaza has endured boggles me. What a fuckin’ mess.
As I responded elsewhere: I wouldn’t have punched him. I would have laughed at him till he felt embarrassed or lost his own cool. I don’t enjoy violence.
I also don’t go around throwing fighting words. If I did I would be ready for the fight I just welcomed. Lots of chronically online liberals ITT acting like the law is some divine shield that will protect them from above.
I have been faced by provocateurs before, and they are losers you just need to dismiss with a laugh. They want a reaction, this wasn’t a random person filming but clearly with him. He wanted a good clippable fight but got more than he bargained for. I can’t sympathise with that. It’s just the political version of those prank videos.
That said I think it’s ridiculous how many useful fools fall for the provocateur’s obvious propaganda. Useful idiots.
Dude... 78 years of concentration camps ...10/6/23, x, 10/8/23...10/12/26
Also the Israeli press has been criticizing Netanyahu because he had enough intel to stop it completely. Not to mention the Israeli's killed their own that day with Apache Helicopters and disabled their own wall turrets. Look up the Hannibal Directive.
Conspiracy theory, lol, I remember nut cases saying 9/11 was an inside job. Human nature is so weird. Even outside the internet. In my boxing class they were arguing about it. Not a structural engineer in sight.
Will look up Hannibal Directive. I actually typed it out to remember. Wife pulled up as I type this. Gotta go. God speed.
Yeah, if the violent protester in the clip had then went on to kill the camerawoman you’d have a fair comparison.
Israel is committing a genocide. You buying into it being about a war with Hamas is like Germans buying into Nazi propaganda that jews control banks. You are a Zionist antisemite.
"Don't invite someone to attack you...." so assault is ok? "It's not". Word. Seems like you've got some figuring out to do. Walking contradiction this guy
The first amendment states that the U.S. government cant punish you for your words. That dosent mean us americans have to listen to every single asshole saying God knows what.
There are state and local laws to deture violent assaults.
We dont need to make a whole federal case out of every jerk that gets smaked in the jaw. Even if it is New York City.
Its america, dumbass. How could me giving my opinion possibly make its reputation any worse than it all ready is? Do you think any thing any one says in reddit comments is that important?
Even this man in the street yelling at protesters dosent really matter.
Because he wasn't being spoken to and he attacked from behind. So next time 2 people are speaking or arguing and I hear something I dont like I can smack the guy in the face? He isnt talking to me and I am behind him but that will be ok? 😂
No one is defending a sucker punch, he shouldn’t have been punched. But calling it a sucker punch after he goes an antagonizes the group and literally asks for a lunch is hilariously stupid
I mean, all the other protestors intervened. Maybe the guy who turned violent just has violent tendencies and it doesn't have anything to do with him being pro-Palestinian.
So that's the other side of my question - what brings people like him (and the people who cheered him on) to be in a peace pro Palestine protest in the first place?
And tbh we see like 4 people help but also hear people cheering and some who obviously supported the aggressor...
According to his account; so pinch of salt already. But unfortunately (and I'm not saying this is right, just something that happens) you could go back through almost every cause in history that's been peacefully protested, on any side of the political spectrum, and find acts of tension and physical clashes
They are not peace protestors. If the shoe was on the other foot and it was the palestinians bombing israel to rubble they wouldnt be protesting for 'peace'. He attacked because the side he supports is loosing, he made supporting it the basis of his personality so when they are loosing he is loosing and this is how people like that deal with it.
The palestinian cause attracts more unstable and damaged people then the pro israel side which is why no one gets sucker punched whilest walking in a pro israel mob.
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u/HalfHumanHalfFork 18h ago
Because the Pro Palestine movement is a violent one?
"from the river to the sea" and anti Zionism are calls for a 2nd Holocaust, even if they pretend to not understand the meaning of what they are saying, it's not a surprise that the followers of a violent ideology are violent