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1940s America also wasn't a great society and certainly not one to return to. However, you appear to be attempting an argument of the form "well yes the Nazis were bad, but what about X". I.e. you appear to be arguing in defence of Nazis, and using nonsensical whataboutery to do so. Maybe reflect on what impulse drives you to do that?
Back then, would you have still called the first Nazis "nazis"? Or would you have waited until they did more nazi-esque behavior?
The hope here is that if we can call a spade a spade quick enough, we might be able to get people to realize that people are being nazis, if even just baby nazis.
Congress pushed and FDR agreed with them. He's not solely to blame, and some of those people were citizens. FDR isnt a saint but Trump is looking to repeat all the worst mistakes of the 20th century. Sacred cows are for idolaters, MAGA likes idols.
I don't hear MAGA not wanting to repeat that nonsense, considering it is their cult leader who instituted the China Initiative against Chinese-Americans.
Who was it that took down that program? Biden?
Also, how funny that you call Japanese-Americans as "foreigners".
Good point, i dont know if a store would replace that because it might be a mimic(?)…
Unless its harbor freight,..
But it depends on what the tool was on if you can trade for a hoe, how isnt as good as say a screw driver, or ratcheting things depending on the situation…
No, because they aren't the German national socialist party. The Italian fascists weren't called Nazi's as far as I know, they were just fascists. Which in and of itself is bad.
It's good to draw parallels with history, but you shouldn't fall into the trap of equating it too much, that just gives them too many easy ways of going "but we don't have a Reichstag to burn down" or other dumb excuses.
You can call them fascist fucks though, because that's accurate 🤷🏼♂️
In Dutch we call all of that "Chocolade pasta" or "pasta" (which can get confusing tbh), but I see your point.
Sometimes branding is too good to ignore (and you have to admit those Nazi bastards were good at branding)
The only reason I hesitate is because it’s a lot more nuanced than labels. Many different people exist in the party with different degrees of extremism and hatred.
To group them all under the same label would probably cause the less extreme individuals to become more extreme (‘caveman effect’) where to them, it feels like a personal attack so they support the people that don’t attack them (republicans).
I’m not trying to excuse or pander to them, I’m trying to be logical and not worsen the wound. Though at this point everyone’s so filled with hatred and the whole stupid ‘left vs right’ situation is getting out of hand. If people realised it was more complex and didn’t force each other into boxes we’d have a more varied dialogue.
Edit; okay, I think I stand corrected. My arguments hold firm in an ideal situation where everyone can self correct, but I guess that’s not the world me live in and there will be polarisation no matter what, so the best I can do is support the side that doesn’t want to kill trans people
They’re complicit but many weren’t aware that they were. I’m simply arguing for an informed debate in order to get these people onto a more open way of thinking so that never happens again. Rather than automatically grouping them together and causing a definite divide
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
When one side has openly espoused white-nationalism and has used the instruments of the state which they have illegally seized to enact violence on the innocent then it is just to call them NAZIS
The Republican party has more in common with the most reviled monsters of our living history and it is on us to call it as it is.
I’m not being pseudo intellectual I’m stating an opinion and I’d rather have a proper discussion rather than being insulted, thanks.
A caveat in your reasoning is grouping them under one label. Who exactly? How many of them? There are 340 million people in America and grouping everyone into two parties is such a bad way of reasoning, it’s very blind to nuance here.
My reasoning is that the more you treat everyone that has loose similarities or even baseline similarities to one side of the political spectrum the more you push them in that box. It’s true, and once again a real phenomenon called the caveman effect.
Tell me your reasoning in a calm and rational way please, or don’t reply at all.
If you're a Nazi sympathizer, you're fucking scum too. Stop acting intelligent because this take is ✨️dumb af✨️, and this isn't a topic based in intelligence but securing the safety and comfort for every citizen to exist as they wish without harming others.
Nazis want to erase others, just like the Republican party seems to be reveling in its ability to silence and harass anyone they want.
Your "rhetoric" allows that hatred to have a floor.
Sincerely, a local PhD that hates seeing you PSEUDO INTELLECTUALS try to gain whatever upper hand you can.
And if you are able to think rationally you understand that this isn't an attack, because ✨️its on the internet✨️ and won't effect your daily life, and maybe make you think why one side is smug and casual about hate and the other side is clawing back the people that quickly stripped their freedoms.
How is it pseudo intellectual to say bob from down the street who voted rebuplican isn’t a Nazi? Yes he’s complicit in a bad regime but calling him a Nazi won’t make him not vote republican, infact it’ll make him more likely vote republican.
Massive paragraphs and yet you’ve missed my point. Your phd doesn’t make you intelligent, it makes you dilligent and hardworking, but you’re still open to making mistakes in your interpretation and reasoning which you’ve demonstrated with your emotional reaction. Don’t get me wrong I actually agree with most of what you’ve said generally but you’ve definetly misunderstood aspects.
You can't be sympathetic to Nazis, because in turn it makes you a Nazi.
If you protect people who harm others and wants to erase them... You're a Nazi.
If Bob down the street votes Republican and doesn't want the erasure of people, why is he voting Republican, when Republicans currently act and engage with society in direct parallel to Nazis.
If Bob is smart, he knows he is no longer Republican due to the party being against his ideals.
This argument isn't about Bob, but Nazi Sympathizers.
You’re right, I almost didn’t reply but I felt I had to get my point across as little as it matters because I do care about hearing others viewpoints as toxic as Reddit can be.
Yawn was my gut reaction because I didn’t appreciate being called pseudo intellectual. While I don’t consider myself intellectual i felt it wasn’t accurate. You said if I was rational I wouldn’t take it personally but I think you’re mistaking rational with being robotic. I’m human. Of course people want to defend their views because their views are part of who they are, and part of who I am is learning more.
This discussion is about bob, not Nazi sympathisers. I maybe didn’t make this clear enough but what I’m talking about is the fact people are misinformed, misaligned and ignorant. Those people aren’t Nazis, even if they support the regime ‘accidentally’. For me Nazi is evil, fascism that rots peoples hearts and is displayed in unempathetic selfish people.
I don’t like labelling the mininformed and lazy with the evil because it makes the misinformed to side with the evil, often. I’m not excusing the misinformed I’m just pushing for a better medium of education. Just my opinion, and I’d like to hear yours WITHOUT being insulted.
To group them all under the same label would probably cause the less extreme individuals to become more extreme (‘caveman effect’) where to them, it feels like a personal attack so they support the people that don’t attack them (republicans).
So what? Not everyone is gonna see the error of their ways.
I'm a big believer that if nine Nazis are sitting at a table and someone joins them, then there are ten Nazis at that table. Of course, there's someone who said it much better than I:
By Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., 16 April 1963
"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."
Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."
Okay but that’s not the point I’m arguing. I’m arguing that the more you label people into two boxes the more they’ll conform to them.
The frustration at the ‘lukewarm’ isn’t going to help the situation most of the time. My point isn’t that people SHOULD BE lukewarm, it’s a rational argument; people that are lukewarm are likely to go against you if you push them to stop being lukewarm.
I’m not saying I’m lukewarm, I’m not saying anyone should be lukewarm. I’m being a realist and stating the truth as I see it.
I've seen republicans claim that the word has lost all it's meaning because it's overused by the left. 10 years ago this was true, and now the meaning is still gone.
Eithet way, that doesn't make it incorrect or make stupid people and less stupid.
You know what’s weird. I vividly remember in 2012 the right screaming that Obama was a nazi. So much so that I saw buddies posting maps of concentration camps he had set up.
Holy shit, were they wrong. It’s actually ICE Camps in 2025 that would actually be what they were describing.
Make no mistake, these "early similarities" are not 1925 early, they are 1934, maybe 1935 early. The US is not descending into fascism, it is in fascism.
German National Socialism didn't start with industrial genocide either. It early on operated concentration camps, to imprison political enemies first and foremost, criminals, and marginalised groups like queer people, before slowly ramping up its mistreatment of Jews and other racial minorities, ending in the Holocaust what started as "they are only saying this, they wouldn't actually do anything". The Party deconstructed state apparatuses, quietly toppling any democratic order, and intertwined its own party organisations with the state. "Nazis" might not be entirely accurate, but it is close enough.
You’re both wrong and right imo. Yes theres very much two sides, the side of the current regime and the other side. But if we go deeper There is a middle ground.
Misinformed individuals, non political individuals. They contribute to negative political climates, like republican regimes, but they can be swayed imo. I’m simply arguing we should automatically box those that are complicit in with those that are purposefully supporting bad regimes, and try and get them on our side. But on reflection it might be pointless since people don’t want to educate themselves
Funny how you're trying to condense the argument into that when it's not what I said at all, classic trait of somebody who thinks they're good at debating logic when all they're good at is smoke and mirrors "logic"
How very Charlie Kirk of you
And every Republican that doesn't oppose the current obviously racist and fascist regime is entirely complicit in its actions
Nice try, but you’re being hypocritical right now. You know nothing, not a thing about me. You see snippets and think I’m ’very Charlie Kirk’.
I’m not trying to condense the argument, I’m simply mirroring your logic. You implied they’re all nazis, I asked you if you think they all are. You’re arguing your own logic here and projecting that onto me.
I’m simply trying to state that there’s a lot of misinformation, a lot of misinformed people and pushing them into boxes and labelling them as Nazis pushes them into that box.
And yes they are complicit but not all are aware that they are. I think it’s our job to push information rather than hate on each other no?
My "implication" was a jab, it's called a joke not sure if you're familiar, you took what you took from it for your own reasons, in a very insecure manner might I add, but ding ding ding we got the word"projection" used in an argument in the year of our lord 2025
And what in the fuck do you mean a snippet? You tried to hijack an almost vague joke with a hypercondensed question and literally said "yes or no"
Information is free and the American Conservatives want none of it, they want to live in their own little bubble of bitter spit and hatred and label it as pragmatic middle ground
The irony of you spouting about misinformation when the modern day Nazi Party is doing modern day Nazi Party things with several official Republican representatives literally Sieg Heiling on national TV to literal cheers from the crowd
Oh, and this reply DOESNT read as insecure? Please, if you weren’t doubting yourself you would reply in such a lengthy manner. You’re trying to WIN for your own ego, just like I am. At least that’s my interpretation.
It certainly didn’t read as Joke. Either way, you initially hypercondensed the argument, I mirrored your logic in an effort to get you to examine yourself by way of outside perspective. If the basis of that was a joke then this is just pointless arguing and I don’t care anymore
Nice bait, but the length of replies typically are related to the amount of information one needs to put out, which generally happens in debates especially when somebody is trying to upend a statement with non-logic, and if you didn't read that statement as a joke/jab/jest.. yeesh
misinformed people and pushing them into boxes and labelling them as Nazis pushes them into that box.
Are you talking about adults? Because it strikes me you are infantilising an entire group of what used to be called "fellow travellers". Misinformed? These are not acts done in darkness but openly celebrated; the establishment of a masked secret police operating without the rule of law, the direct and accelerating assault on the First Amendment, the open and cynical corruption of the democratic electoral process, the intimidation and silencing of critics. These are not secrets, the information is there for all to see. One side condemns it, the other glories in it and the people you refer to have chosen a side while hoping for the fig leaf of plausible deniability.
To point out that they are supporting Nazi policies would be to drive them further to the Nazi side? Then they are de facto Nazis. The mask has long since been dropped and if they continue to support the undisguised descent into naked authoritarianism we should not call them out?
Treat them as adults, allow them the dignity of agency and the exercise of moral judgement. If that upsets them to the extent that they hoist their own swastika, fine. The Trump camp are loudly calling for a civil war, best the enemy is open about it.
We'll just keep laughing at you, mock the candidates that were chosen for you, and utterly dismiss the ridiculous activists that assume the mantle of mouthpiece for your party.
It's hilarious how you're bending over and lubing up for this fascist takeover. You're not part of the in group.
In November 1938, two weeks after the November pogroms, The Three Rulands, who had never previously expressed anti-Semitic views, performed a song at the Rulands-Eck (Rulands Corner) that downplayed the regime's anti-Jewish violence while indirectly justifying it by accusing the Jewish population of greed and shady business practices.[1] End of Career In January 1939, The Three Rulands appeared at the Comedians' Cabaret with the number "The Three City Architects," in which they took aim at Nazi plans for the redevelopment of Berlin, which envisaged a far-reaching reconstruction of the city center, including the demolition of entire neighborhoods. The number was enthusiastically received by the audience. Officials, however, viewed it as an attack on a topic that was not open to criticism. In addition, Werner Finck had secretly accused the Nazi leadership of lacking a sense of humor in the December 25, 1938, issue of the Berliner Tageblatt. Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels then decided to make an example of them. The trio was banned from performing and—along with Werner Finck and Peter Sachse—was expelled from the Reich Chamber of Culture, which amounted to a lifetime ban on practicing their profession. Even an intervention by Albert Speer, who had considered the city architect act a pleasant and harmless joke, could not change this. Wilhelm Meißner and Helmut Buth were drafted into the Wehrmacht, and Manfred Dlugi into the Reich Labor Service.
Werner Finck:
However, the Katakombe was closed on 10 May 1935 on the orders of Minister Joseph Goebbels. Finck and his colleagues were interned for six weeks in Esterwegen concentration camp, where he met Carl von Ossietzky and Julius Leber. The Katakombe ensemble took their arrest in good stride, because they still performed despite their imprisonment. They reasoned that before the cabaret closed down they had performed with anxiety due to the fear of incarceration; now they did not need to fear because they were already imprisoned. It was due to the intervention of his friend, actress Käthe Dorsch, who talked to Goebbels' rival Hermann Göring, that Finck was released on 1 July on condition that he not work in public for a year.
Despite this he continued performing before live audiences from 1937 onwards, as well as in film, where he had a successful, if undistinguished, career from 1931. However, he was banned from the Reichskulturkammer in 1939 and, threatened with arrest again, he joined the Wehrmacht armed forces in the rank of a private radiotelephone operator to avoid imprisonment. A member of the 23rd Infantry Division), he was awarded the Iron Cross, 2nd class and the Eastern Front Medal, which he called "Frozen Meat Medal" (Gefrierfleischorden).
Crazy how they just off one of their own like that. This banning has gotten out of hand, MAGA when will it end? When all the others are silenced. Sorry to tell reddit, if you've posted here, whether in support of MAGA or not, you are the others. Rich MAGA doesn't see the rest of MAGA as anything better than tools and fodder. Sounds familiar, yes?
We're trapped in a damned time loop, like that episode of TNG where Kelsey Grammers ship kept appearing through a temporal distortion and destroying the Enterprise D over and Over again...
This whole Charlie Kirk thing is doing a great job of distracting Americans from the increase in the cost of living, the decline in government services, and the disappearing of their neighbours.
Who cares about the price of groceries when Stephen Colbert is getting shut down? Don't worry about the high cost of gas, because, look, Jimmy Kimmel finally got suspended.
They're recreating it for all of us who missed the Nazis. Let's hope the generation now fights back just as the one back then and let's also hope they current gen doesn't wait as long as the gen back then. So many people failed back then before prevailing, and yet we have leaned nothing. Back at it again with shittler here. So galling to have this happen in supposed "free world" too.
Just like Trump's regime the Nazis were simultaneously dangerous and ridiculous. It must have been nearly impossible not to make fun of them but, obviously, also very dangerous to do so.
Well, at least it gives us oldies another crack at it. I thought my confrontational days were about expired, not really in shape for marches and banners but now I just have to sit quietly with a bunch of fellow retired Guardian readers, hold a small sign objecting to genocide and I can be conveniently carried to the van and charged with treason. If I'm going to get my first conviction at 70, that's the one to go for.
Meanwhile both main parties scramble to hug the flag and insist they sympathise with the completely understandable racist thuggery of the far right.
The head of the Scottish fascists who split from the BUF because Mosley was too tolerant of Irish/French Catholics was arrested in the Seventies as a pedo; it seems likely there were plenty in a party as full of hypocrisy that also had total power, unlike in Britain.
No you're getting them mixed up with Donald Trump you silly goose. You know, the guy whose followers assassinated 2 democrat politicians a few months ago? And who inspired a violent insurrection within the Senate when he didn't get his way in an election? The guy who the dude who assassinated charlie Kirk votes for? You know, that guy.
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The important thing to remember is that the people that want to restrict the rights of minorities and the ones that want to grant rights to minorities are the same and the two are just a difference of opinion.
I know I will be downvoted for this, but to me it’s not really all that comparable. Hear me out…When South Park did the episode recently where they openly mocked all the faces of the right, they mostly took it on the chin, as far as I know. Charlie Kirk himself even reposted it and praised it.
This recent push back seems to be because Charlie Kirk was executed in front of his family and supporters.
STILL, that being said, I don’t think Kimmel should be kicked off the air. But I do think it’s important to add that bit of context.
The big difference though is that the chairman of the FCC threatened governmental actions against ABC if they didn't pull Kimmel. Kimmel shouldn't be immune from public opinion, but threatening to pull broadcast licenses is governmental overreach.
This recent push back seems to be because Charlie Kirk was executed in front of his family and supporters.
So? It's a common fascist tactic to use occasions of violence to justify political repression. How, exactly, does a podcaster's (unfortunate) death justify or contextualize any of this?
There's a difference between banning criticisms of sitting politicians and a show host knowingly saying something factually untrue to mislead the public after an assassination, violating preexisting rules, and the network deciding to pull the plug on the whole show.
Counterpoint: a large portion of people identify themselves as Communists, and just accuse other's of being fascists as a matter of Accusation in a Mirror, to manufacture feelings of the need for "preemptive collective self defense", which is to purposely paint your political opponents dangerous to make genocide necessary (as we saw the other day).
Accusation in a mirror (AiM)\a]) is a technique often used in the context of hate speech incitement, where one falsely attributes one's own motives or intentions to one's adversaries.\3])\4])\5]) It has been cited, along with dehumanization, as one of the indirect or cloaked forms of incitement to genocide, which has contributed to the commission of genocide, for example in the Holocaust, the Rwandan genocide, and the Armenian genocide. By invoking collective self-defense, accusation in a mirror is used to justify genocide, similar to using the right of self-defense as a defense for individual homicide.
When you consider the vast amounts of people calling other's maggots on Reddit, day in day out, which is another form of Incitement to Genocide, to make it palatable, we are in quite a situation with the Hate Media Reddit has become.
The Jamaican political conflict is a long-standing feud between right-wing and left-wing elements in the country, often exploding into violence. The Jamaican Labour Party (JLP) and the People's National Party (PNP) have fought for control of the island for years and the rivalry has encouraged urban warfare in Kingston. Each side believes the other to be controlled by foreign elements; the JLP is said to be backed by the American Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the PNP is said to have been backed by the Soviet Union and Cuba.
Every government on earth suppresses information that they don’t like. That includes the entire spectrum of political thought. National Socialists like Goebbles and Hitler all the way to Communists like Mao and Lenin. And none of this justifies the support of political violence. Also celebrating a civilian being killed for expressing his mind is a definitive example of fascism so maybe everyone needs to stop patting themselves on the back and masturbating to their own perceived superiority and self reflect for 5 minutes.
Provably false like the lab leak theory that was censored during COVID? Or the Hunter Biden laptop story in the run up to the 2020 election? Or that men can’t become women? Or the unedited footage from inside the capital on January 6?
That you clearly had no problem for zero consequences for all of the people who full-on claimed that a dangerous lefty killed Kirk—nothing was implied the way kimmel said it, they were calling for blood. You seem to have no problem with trump saying complete nonsense with zero consequences. But you’re chasing conspiracies like “hunter Biden’s laptop”—something we have no actual idea what it contains.
Its quite ironic that none of yall remember doing this exact thing for opinions that republicans held. Dems talk out so many facets of their faces that even yall cant keep up.
I don’t remember the democrats using any lawsuits, corporate extortion, a weaponized FCC, and public slander in order to silence republicans. Please refresh my memory!
Tim Allen, kirk Cameron, Jon voight, Roseanne barr, Kevin spacey, think he is a weirdo though, James wood.
The cake shop that had christian owners and wouldn't bake a cake for trans or gay couple. Its what I can remember right off hand but im also kind of busy at the moment.
Don't forget about social media "fact checkers" ...
I'm still missing the part where democrats used lawsuits, corporate extortion, weaponized the FCC, and public slander. None of your examples show any time of that. If anything, it proves the exact opposite- public opinion against their extremist views. Freedom of speech wasn't silenced by the government. Need I remind you- Freedom of speech doesn't equal freedom of consequences. I think you need a refresher on the 1st Amendment: "The Freedom of Speech Amendment refers to the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, which protects the right to express ideas and opinions without government interference. It prohibits Congress from making laws that restrict freedom of speech, the press, or the right to assemble and petition the government."
How are individual entertainers becoming unpopular or marginalized groups trying to be accommodated in public services at all comparable with a government agency punishing a media outlet for speech the regime disagrees with? Really spell it out.
Y'all can't seem to understand the difference between private distaste and government repression. Using the FCC to essentially extort a media outlet is the issue. High ranking government officials tracking people down for inadequate performance of mourning, North Korea style, is the issue. But you knew that.
Calm down, Alannis. You don't seem to understand what irony is. Also, did you throw facets in there because you thought it sounded smart? It didn't. If you want to appear more intelligent than you are, try using an apostrophe now and again.
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