r/Borderlands2 • u/Ok_Plankton_5214 • 20h ago

🏔️ [ 𝗧𝗿𝘂𝗲 𝗩𝗮𝘂𝗹𝘁 𝗛𝘂𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝗠𝗼𝗱𝗲 ] BL1 conversion mod for BL2

Building a borderlands 2 conversion mod with working Bl1 weapons and working bl1 assets and models as well as weapon proficiencies and working Bl1 inventory .Very early gameplay just curious if i should keep going or if anybody would even play this ,i know there is already Bl1 character mods but i built those from ground up as well . Im also not sure if this has been done before

https://reddit.com/link/1x4y0nd/video/bc1kez3lt8vh1/player

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u/fableboy10 18h ago

You can use this same logic for literally any other process that has since been innovated upon. Remember when people had a deep understanding of arithmetic and mathematics before calculators existed? Man people took hours solving complex math problems...

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u/55tumbl 18h ago

I don't necessarily disagree, though I'm not sure it's really exactly the same. Do you personally really apply this same logic to (like you say) literally anything AI does? Including anything creative/artistic or knowledge-based. Do we still need graphical designers, voice actors, mathematicians, etc?

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u/fableboy10 18h ago

Yes. AI, like the calculator, is just another tool. It still needs human orchestration, and ultimately human creativity. Being satisfied with the end result is completely subjective. We still need people with an understanding of the subject matter to produce quality results. Anyone can just spit out slop of course, but it's up to the consumer whether or not that slop is the acceptable end product.

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u/55tumbl 17h ago

Ok, but I'm not sure how my original comment goes against any of that.

People still learn math in school, then complicated math in superior studies, even if calculators o numerical simulations can do it faster. So people first understand what they are doing before letting the tools do it for them. This new wave of modding is not the same mindset. And it also makes it a lot more difficult to keep that mindset.

As I wrote, hopefully it's ultimately for the best in terms of quality as well. But I think it's fair to leave some doubt open on that question, is it not?

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u/fableboy10 17h ago

I understand what you are saying, but I don't think that you need an advanced understanding of the subject matter to make something viable enough for most people's standards. I think that for a lot of mods or game decomps/recomps, the amount of understanding required to reach the end goal made the juice not worth the squeeze. We now have many people with great ideas that would've never seen the light of day actually creating things. Leave it to the enthusiasts to polish or perfect the ideas. The ones with the deeper understanding.

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u/55tumbl 16h ago

We now have many people with great ideas that would've never seen the light of day actually creating things.

That's unfair. These ideas were there before, and have seen the light of day in some form or other in the past.

Leave it to the enthusiasts to polish or perfect the ideas. The ones with the deeper understanding.

That's kinda the point/question. How does it affect the enthusiasm to 1) gain deeper understanding and 2) to polish and perfect ideas?

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u/fableboy10 15h ago

The ideas may have existed in people's brains, sure, but the rate of execution was clearly not the same, otherwise we would've never seen a surge in mod output like we do now.

The enthusiasm was and still is completely up to you. Now you don't NEED to spend hundreds of hours learning how to reverse engineer game code to make ideas come to life. Do you still want to spend all those hours actually wanting to gain deeper understanding? Do it then, nobody is stopping you. Maintaining motivation involves not letting your ego get the best of you.

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u/55tumbl 15h ago

It has nothing to do with ego. But it's a bit weird that this topic rarely allows mixed thoughts or nuances. It's either 100% positive or 100% slop. Not sure how I got dragged into passing for the absolute anti-AI who only wanted to criticize what OP did, because that was never the point.

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u/fableboy10 15h ago

You opened up with "modding without AI was fun while it lasted I guess." which insinuates that it's no longer fun. Why is it no longer fun?

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u/55tumbl 14h ago

I suppose the fun comes from the combination of learning/creativity process and end product achievement.

If the juice is not worth the squeeze, like you write, then you don't bother squeezing anymore. Even if squeezing was kinda fun in itself, you're not going to do it just for the sake of doing it, it's not enough to sustain the enthusiasm.

I haven't been around the modding discords for a while, so idk the general sentiment. But it's interesting that none of those new mods are made by people who were invested in modding previously. For good or bad (or probably both) it is different than "just a new tool". When the BL2 sdk came out for example, it opened new possibilities, but it boosted the enthusiasm of all that community, rather than wiping the slate clean.

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u/fableboy10 13h ago

What's stopping you, or anyone, from the learning and the creative process? You're basically saying "what's the point?" since someone else can achieve the same results without needing the hundreds of hours of research, which again boils down to ego.

AI tools made the juice worth the squeeze as the barrier to entry to creating mods is easier now.

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