r/BeAmazed • u/medievalpeasant_ • Aug 09 '26

History The Tuareg people (despite being predominantly Muslims) have a culture where men veil their faces, while women do not

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54

u/babicko90 Aug 09 '26

Modern islam is mostly a perversion of autocratic tendencies (like the middle age christianity was)

53

u/Sadly_NotAPlatypus Aug 09 '26

In the US Christianity is no different. Conservatives basically believe in a Christian Sharia law here. 

3

u/IceFireTerry Aug 09 '26

White evangelicals are basically the Saudis of Christianity. They go to other countries spreading their radicalism

19

u/RecognitionWorried93 Aug 09 '26

Redditors never beat the allegations. I which Muslims in my country behaved like U.S Christians, we wouldn't have so much religious based violence

13

u/Oossped Aug 09 '26

I wish hindus in india behaved like hindus in america as well. There would be a lot less government corruption and religion based violence.

8

u/IceFireTerry Aug 09 '26

Funny thing is the Muslims in the United States on average are more tolerant toward gay people than white evangelicals. It's extremely funny compared to Europe

https://giphy.com/gifs/XClPnuZtG2yPyqTI6R

0

u/RecognitionWorried93 Aug 09 '26

Funny thing is the Muslims in the United States on average are more tolerant toward gay people than white evangelicals. It's extremely funny compared to Europe

Dearborn Michigan beg's to differ. They are just dont have the political power and numbers yet. Also the U.S.A is an extremely confrontational society, people on either side of the political spectrum challenge anything they disagree with vermitly.

1

u/TopLate7592 Aug 09 '26

Just more state violence.

-3

u/Sadly_NotAPlatypus Aug 09 '26

US  Christians are a large part of why we have the highest murder rate or any rich nation. They certainly make up most of the school shooters and political and domestic terrorists. 

7

u/Fenrist09 Aug 09 '26

If you’re interested in statistics, here’s a look at USAs homicides rates per capita:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40014342/

3

u/Illustrious-Win-3403 Aug 09 '26

Most of our murder rate doesn’t come from mass shootings man

-1

u/Sadly_NotAPlatypus Aug 09 '26

I'm aware. They make up most of our terrorists, however. 

2

u/Illustrious-Win-3403 Aug 09 '26

I hope we can all lovingly come to the conclusion that religious extremists from anywhere are all a blight on society 🙏❤️

8

u/wnted_dread_or_alive Aug 09 '26

Oh yeah? What the punishment for saying you dont believe in god? Nothing

Whats the punishment in actual sharia law places for apostate? You dont know what you say except for “west bad”

9

u/Sadly_NotAPlatypus Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26

Look, clearly there are plenty of differences. But one cannot deny that modern American conservatism has become an authoritarian theocratic movement. They're trying to subject us all to their Christian authoritarianism and are trying to restrict liberty and force everyone to live like them. They're also becoming increasingly radicalized and violent. I had multiple conservatives threaten my life in a local politics FB group debating trans issues just yesterday. When Trump took office again I was receiving so many death threats from conservatives on Facebook that I deleted a lot of my social media accounts and deleted my ten year old reddit account that used my real name. 

My point isn't that they're exactly the same but rather that they have a lot of parallels. 

-3

u/RecognitionWorried93 Aug 09 '26

My point isn't that they're exactly the same but rather that they have a lot of parallels. 

No they don't. American's on all political sides of threaten each other all the time. Name one violent that was done my Christians in recent times. Give me an example of mob of Christians killing someone in the U.S ? . The fact Left leaning Americans keep comparing islam with Christianity, is just comical.

2

u/Sadly_NotAPlatypus Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26

The assassination of Charlie Kirk. And dude, lynchings are still a problem in Christian dominated Southern states. There was one just a few days ago. 

Christians be violent in this country. 

Also, states the most Christian populations essentially murder women with awful healthcare policy. The most Christian states have dramatically higher deaths of mothers giving birth. Because women dying is better than giving them healthcare. 

1

u/RecognitionWorried93 Aug 09 '26

dude, lynchings are still a problem in Christian dominated Southern states. There was one just a few days ago. 

And did any Christian group claim the act ?

The assassination of Charlie Kirk

And didn't the assassin claimed he was Christian ?, the assassin was a straight up liberal .Charlie Kirk was a conservative Christian popular figure killed by a liberal activist

states the most Christian populations essentially murder women with awful healthcare policy. The most Christian states have dramatically higher deaths of mothers giving birth. Because women dying is better than giving them healthcare. 

The U.S as a whole generally doesn't have affordable healthcare and even when its offered ,it's generally mismanagement. That's not a Christian issue but a issue of governance.

2

u/Sadly_NotAPlatypus Aug 09 '26

Charlie Kirk's assassin was a MAGA Mormon. Multiple members of his family confirmed he was MAGA. 

6

u/SuperCruisePanther Aug 09 '26

 Oh yeah? What the punishment for saying you dont believe in god?

In the US?

  • Inability to hold political office

  • Assaukt

  • Potential death

4

u/thewooba Aug 09 '26

You must be joking. Give me an example of each one of those

-1

u/SuperCruisePanther Aug 09 '26

It's not my job to educate you. Google is right there.

1

u/thewooba Aug 09 '26

Its not my job to Google your claims

3

u/pleasehelpteeth Aug 09 '26

Inability to hold political office

We have had openly athiest congressmen.

Assaukt

I do not think this is a rampant issue in most of the us. Like at all.

Potential death

Okay sure man.

6

u/Illustrious-Win-3403 Aug 09 '26

To be fair it is definitely ridiculous that Congress is something like 90% Christian and it becomes a headline every time someone doesn’t swear in on the bible

1

u/pleasehelpteeth Aug 09 '26

That has more to do with the US electorate then some systematic system barring non christians.

And I dont think it makes the news every time.

Trump didnt swear in on a Bible and no one really cared.

1

u/Illustrious-Win-3403 Aug 09 '26

I don’t think “inability to hold public office” necessitates there being a literal law that you have to be christian to hold office

2

u/pleasehelpteeth Aug 09 '26

When comparing the situation to sharia law yeah it does.

Them the breaks in democracy. If the electorate wants to support canidates with their religious views thats how it goes. You can say its a problem but its very diffrent then sharia law.

And again, we had had quite a few openly atheist representatives.

0

u/SuperCruisePanther Aug 09 '26

 We have had openly athiest congressmen

Almost never, and it is big news whenever it happens. In many states it is illegal to hold political office while being atheist. 

3

u/pleasehelpteeth Aug 09 '26

Those were found illegal and hold no weight at all.

No religion or lack thereof is banned from public office in the United States.

0

u/SuperCruisePanther Aug 09 '26

They aren't illegal and hold plenty of weight. It's stopped thousands from running for office. The constitution is toilet paper and the first amendment is unenforced.

2

u/pleasehelpteeth Aug 09 '26

It was found to be against the constitution in the 60s and is never enforced but go off man.

A simple Google search would stop you from posting blatantly false information but thats hard work. I get it.

1

u/MisterBungle00 Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26

Yes, an American today can legally say they don't believe in God without being punished by the state. But if we're going to discuss religious coercion honestly, you can't just pretend the US has no history of it.

The federal government and Christian, Catholic, and Mormon churches operated the Indian boarding-school system, where Native children were forcibly removed from their families and subjected to forced assimilation, including suppression of their languages, cultures, and religions. The Bureau of Indian Affairs was deeply involved in that system.

I'm only 26, I had to attend multiple BIE owned and operated boarding schools in the Southwest when I was young. There I had my mouth washed out with soap and was forced to keep hot sauce or juice from jars of peppers in my mouth whenever I spoke my language. I have a crooked nose due to a break that was never set properly and I even got my hands beat with a hatchet handle because I was playing Navajo string-games. This is after all the BIE reforms that occurred in the 90s. I won't even get into the rampant sex abuse that a lot of my peers had experienced at the hands of faculty members. There have been multiple investigations and reports acknowledging that abuse and neglect persisted in some Bureau of Indian Education associated schools after the 1960s and 1990s, including failures in supervision, reporting, and protection mechanisms.

Because they are specifically Indian schools, they aren't under the Dept of Ed that regulates every public school in the country, they're under a division of the Dept of Interior, like all other federal Indian agencies/programs, which has been historically underfunded and with little oversight. The first time a Native person was in charge of Interior, and thus all Native programs, was 2021 with Deb Haaland, who was also the first person to force a federal investigation into Indian residential schools/Indian boarding schools in the US. She'd been advocating for it for years in Congress but couldn't ever get it passed, so she did it as Secretary, and the results confirmed what we all already knew and issued a list of recommendations for the next steps, but it remains to be seen if any of those are still happening under the new administration.

Many of my aunts and sisters cannot bear children due to "family planning" operations they didn't consent to and that were forced upon them when they were children attending BIA and Mormon boarding schools during the 70s and 80s.

But I suppose it's hard to take seriously the women who keep all of this in mind when interacting with the IHS. The fear that disenfranchised women have when admitting themselves to the hospital for stuff like ovarian torsion is definitely founded in baseless conjecture..

In 2018, over 100 Indigenous women filed lawsuits for receiving forced sterilization procedures from Saskatchewan hospitals. You can look it up. This is a well established form of ethnic cleansing. There were also reports of this practice going on in Canada as recently as 2019.

The laws are undeniably in favor of it, any doctor can decide a woman is “unfit to be a mother” (read too black, too brown, too poor, too dumb) and slip in a snip. As was often the case with the previously mentioned Canadian lawsuits, and who could forget about the little incident with ICE snipping some migrant woman?

I'll remind you, In the US, the Supreme Court decision that said eugenics was good, go ahead and sterilize people without their permission: Buck v. Bell; has never been overturned. Despite all of this, Americans(both regular folk and politicians) who advocate for/against abortion never mention any of this or bring awareness to it.. odd.

I think your argument is selective; you're pointing to abuses associated with Islamic law while completely omitting America's own recent history of state-backed religious and cultural coercion against Native Nations and communities.

Just look at the Hopi squash blossom whorl and Navajo tsiiyééł. There are younger Hopi people today who do not know the full context or the specific traditional teachings behind the squash blossom whorl, and while the tsííyeeł is still proudly worn by many Navajos today, colonization changed how and where it can be worn. This is all due to generations of forced assimilation and colonization. Many modern Navajo and Hopi youth must explicitly go out of their way to relearn how to tie or wrap their hair into these styles and they have to learn the prayers required to tie it because of assimilation efforts.

The history and nutritional value of the food given to us at Bosque Redondo and later, sent to our reservation as a result of treaty obligations, is outside of the scope of this comment, but it is something that is still having a hugely negative effect on many of our communities to this day. This is why diabetes and heart disease are so prevalent among us.

The Navajo Livestock Reduction stripping smaller Navajo families of the abilities to be self-sustaining, was certainly a major cause of that dependency for us; the BIA also employed another form of cultural warfare through that in which they attempted to destroy our matriarchal, matrilineal, and matrilocal systems.

13

u/thewooba Aug 09 '26

Let me know when US Christians perform FGM, force their women to wear bags over their heads, and train suicide bombers with promises of 72 virgins.

24

u/WraithEye Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26

Well they do have the default circoncision for males, amongst other crazy shit. As a whole religion is evenly perverted in America, by their true god.

Money

14

u/hypomaniacmeg Aug 09 '26

I'm not defending circumcision, but that's nowhere near a fair comparison. Most people truly don't know how horrific FGM is. & yeah, of course many perversion of Christianity are running rampant everywhere, all for money.

0

u/PlutoCharonMelody Aug 09 '26

Tbf to America the worst forms of MGM are banned. That being castration of boys. Which is probably worse than higher tiers of FGM (the ones that remove all pleasure sensation and leave nothing but a hole).
It has been so long that people forget how bad people were with bodily harm to infants.

1

u/hypomaniacmeg Aug 09 '26

That sounds absolutely abhorrent. I really hope that isn't still happening anywhere in the world. Thank god it's banned to the point that it at least isn't well known. I don't personally agree with circumcision, I wouldn't have done it myself. But I ended up only having 2 girls anyway.

2

u/PlutoCharonMelody Aug 09 '26

It was very common practice in the Middle Ages and before across the world. For a Western/European perspective they even had the castrati which were boys who had that done to them just before puberty to keep their voices at a certain tone to be able to sing in a man or woman's pitch. Although like with FGM, the worst of it was not in Europe as far as I could tell.
Honestly my interest in transhumanism led me to look into historical modifications to humans which happens to have some common place horrors that happened for centuries. It did give me the perspective that we are a better civilization globally in the modern day though.

28

u/4imprint-Certain Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26

To be fair we allow little boy to be circumcised, that's genital mutilation

21

u/hypomaniacmeg Aug 09 '26

I'm not defending circumcision, but that's nowhere near a fair comparison. Most people truly don't know how horrific FGM is.

1

u/IAmNotUniqueSoGapple Aug 09 '26

Except FGM isn't a religious thing but done by people of certain cultures

7

u/hypomaniacmeg Aug 09 '26

Yes it's true that it's primarily driven by cultural & social traditions rather than religious reasons. But my main point is simply that it's not a fair comparison to use circumcision as an argument. Not defending circumcision

FGM is far more damaging & traumatizing due to vastly greater physical damage, a complete lack of medical benefits, & much higher rates of life-threatening complications.

In a lot of the areas with high rates of FGM, those poor girls are held down against their will at puberty & mutilated without anesthesia. The personal testimonies are harrowing.

Anyway, again I'm not defending circumcision. & I'm not saying that it isn't damaging. I just hate when people act like it's the same when it really isn't.

2

u/IAmNotUniqueSoGapple Aug 09 '26

Not to downplay the horrors of body mutilation in general, but a point was made about apparent FGM being done as a part of islamic beliefs, when such a thing isn't a part of the religion.

Another Redditor brings up the point about circumcisions done by Christians, as a form of pointing out the hypocrisy by an uneducated twat. It is indeed a fair comparison in this case.

However I do agree FGM should not be a part of any society.

6

u/thewooba Aug 09 '26

Its disgusting to even compare the two. FGM removes all sexual pleasure, circumcision rarely does so

1

u/AdCalm3789 Aug 10 '26

They are both gross but it seems like you are only against one but ambivalent about the other.

2

u/thewooba Aug 10 '26

One is way worse than the other. How can you say FGM is no worse than removing a foreskin?

0

u/AdCalm3789 Aug 10 '26

I see that emotion has clouded your judgement and I'm arguing with an ideologue.

2

u/thewooba Aug 10 '26

Are you a jedi? FGM often involved removal of the clitorus, which makes sex painful and pleasureless. Circumcision removes the foreskin which can rarely cause nerve damage, and may prevent some medical conditions such as phimosis, paraphimosis, penile cancer. Would the world be a better place without both? Yes. Is one CLEARLY a bigger problem than the other? Yes.

0

u/4imprint-Certain Aug 09 '26

Compare? I didn't do that. I merely pointed out that Christianity also promotes genital mutilation. Yes ladies have thousands of nerve endings on the clit alone, yes more damage will be done due to that fact. Doesn't take away from the general point that religions allow genital mutilation under the guise of their religion to make it okay due to traditions and cultures.

1

u/thewooba Aug 09 '26

Sounds like youre comparing the two. Why lie?

1

u/4imprint-Certain Aug 09 '26

Show me where the lie is?

1

u/thewooba Aug 09 '26

First two sentences of your previous comment

11

u/wouldyoucomewithme Aug 09 '26

American conservative Christians are their own special breed of fanatical religious hatemongerers. Women experiencing ectopic and risky pregnancies are going into septic shock and dying all around the country because of near and total abortion bans incited by violent misogynists. Republicans just attempted to disenfranchise 8/10 married women by passing the SAVE act. Christian conservatives hate women in their own special, evil way. Just say you're racist and move on because nobody wants to hear this BS.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '26

[deleted]

5

u/thewooba Aug 09 '26

And you think this is just as bad as what happens in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Somalia, UAE? Have you heard of Honor Culture? Your daughter would be raped and then killed because she lost her honor to the rape. Tell me you would rather live in Oman than in the UK, Canada, or US.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '26

[deleted]

4

u/thewooba Aug 09 '26

Too much, but not as much as is allowed by Islam

1

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '26

[deleted]

1

u/MisterBungle00 Aug 09 '26

Omitting the coercive and forced "family planning" operations that were forced upon Indigenous girls who attended BIA and religious boarding schools(Christian, Catholic, Mormon)...

-1

u/TrustFit3061 Aug 09 '26

They do MGM all the time.

-3

u/Practical-Cook5042 Aug 09 '26

Orthodox Christian women cover their hair.

Touch Grass

3

u/thewooba Aug 09 '26

Show me a case of woman put to death for not covering their head in Christian Western nation

1

u/TrustFit3061 Aug 09 '26

What about women being out to death for choosing to cover their head in Western Christian nations? Is that ok?

1

u/thewooba Aug 09 '26

Show me a case of that

2

u/TrustFit3061 Aug 09 '26

Ramha Ayad in Germany last year.

-1

u/thewooba Aug 09 '26

Bro that was an extrajudicial murder, not forced by socirty and thr government. Im talking about Iran government executing women for not covering their heads. Just be reasonable, otherwise its not a fair argument.

3

u/Practical-Cook5042 Aug 09 '26

dragging those goalposts lolol

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0

u/Practical-Cook5042 Aug 09 '26

Dragging those goalposts yessir

1

u/thewooba Aug 09 '26

Goalposts firmly where they are. I said forcing by law women to cover their heads. This is not true in the West, you cant even show me one case.

-1

u/Practical-Cook5042 Aug 09 '26

Not going to bother with you just admit you get off on hating Muslims

1

u/thewooba Aug 09 '26

I get off on hating all religion, but most of all Islam

1

u/Feeling-Celery7644 Aug 09 '26

It’s too bad that it’s actually even worse than US Christianity. Even thought I don’t like extreme Christians, world would be a better place if that was the bottom …

1

u/Kor_Phaeron_ Aug 09 '26

Yes, and we Catholics call them heretics.

1

u/BadKarmaForMe Aug 09 '26

Can you please explain how?

1

u/Sadly_NotAPlatypus Aug 09 '26

They hate individual liberty and people choosing lives different to theirs. They are constantly introducing legislation to try and force LGBTQ people to live like them, they are trying to control people's bodies and behavior, even if it means having by far the worst maternal death rate in the developed world. Texas just made marijuana illegal, many Southern states still feature dry counties. 

They never really believed in liberty but they extra don't believe in it these days. Live like them with their strict personal beliefs applied to you or they will use the state to ensure you aren't enjoying liberties they don't want you to have. 

-6

u/lunchypoo222 Aug 09 '26

And modern Christianity isn’t? lmao 😂

12

u/tml25 Aug 09 '26

No. It really isnt

-11

u/lunchypoo222 Aug 09 '26

Spotted the maga fascist.

1

u/BadKarmaForMe Aug 09 '26

“Everyone I disagree with is a Nazi”. Grow up

-1

u/lunchypoo222 Aug 09 '26

It’s not a matter of disagreeing that Christianity has also been commandeered by autocratic politicians as a tool to oppress people. It’s a matter of facts. Anyone that focuses on the Muslim world as a sole example of this while ignoring how modern Christianity has served the same purposes (in more places than just the west) is either in deep denial or is just a-okay with it.

And for emphasis, what is happening in the US at the hands of this administration absolutely mirrors Nazism.

1

u/FreshPrinceOfIndia Aug 10 '26

I think Christianity as a societal influence is very incomparable to Islam, theres just way too big of a discrepancy in human rights violations in the islamic world.

That being said, Christianity is indeed a negative force in USA as of late, Roe V Wade being overturned was 100% religiously motivated.

0

u/Illustrious_Joke_399 Aug 10 '26

Lol whatever girl

-2

u/MUIGUR Aug 09 '26

Tell me you don't know anything about Islam without telling me you don't know anything about Islam.

Seriously this Western revisionism using Christianity as an example. You look at it and be like: the church took the early idea and did this and that. Islam must be the same thing. Very creative Eurocentrism of course.

But ironically Islam is the opposite.

Really you can learn Arabic and go read a book written 1200 years ago or a history book 800 years ago.

6

u/Yenakin_4472 Aug 09 '26

Are you going to give an argument or quote a source or just vaguely dismiss what that guy had to say?

2

u/babicko90 Aug 09 '26

Middle east women agree with you s/

Who cares whats in the quran, when the practice shows the reality. I have nothing against muslims, I have everything against non-secular societies (including our western ones)