r/ukguns • u/quackquack444 Staffs - SGC/FAC • 9d ago

Coach Gun Legality

hi all! just a quick question, would something like a coach gun be legal on an FAC? i know that on an SGC the minimum barrel length is 24" and minimum overall is 40" but afaik this only applies to pump action and semi auto shotguns. i've seen that guns like the bobcat (lever action) have a barrel shorter than 24" and are on an FAC, so theoretically would a coach gun with a barrel length under 24" be legal?

TIA!

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u/InstanceMuch8179 9d ago

You can have one on an FAC with a minimum barrel length of 12’’ and overall 24’’ inches.
The problem you may run into is that I think some Police forces aren’t keen on section 1 shotguns.
You may struggle to justify it unless you do Cowboy action shooting (there used to a few clubs when I looked into it a few years ago) not sure if they still exist.

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u/Bazzatron 9d ago

Cowboy action is at least not extinct, but agree, like with any S1 firearm, you need to not just prove that it is safe for you to own, but you need to prove you have a valid reason for owning one.

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u/InstanceMuch8179 9d ago

Apparently they aren’t keen on people owning “Sawn off shotguns”

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u/Bazzatron 9d ago

They say they aren't keen on people owning LBPs too, but there seems to be a pretty thriving community.

As long as you have the required justification, the FEO can only decline for prescribed reasons - not just "aren't keen" 😅

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u/InstanceMuch8179 9d ago

It’s harder for them to deny you permission for LBP/LBR though.

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u/Bazzatron 8d ago

I don't think so?

The statutory reasons for declining are the same either way. With S1 shotguns, at least you can engage in shotgun shooting before getting a ticket for one. You're not even allowed to touch a LBP/LBR without a ticket with a slot for one.

Seems to me that its less reasonable to go from sub6 air pistol to a semi-auto 22lr, than it is to go from shooting clays/wildfowling/cowboy with a s2 shotgun to a s1 shotgun.

But I acknowledge that there are over 40 ways that the FEOs skin this particular cat until we have a uniform approach. So YMMV force to force?

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u/InstanceMuch8179 8d ago

I’ve lived in 4 different 4 force areas. And know and spoken to people who live in many others.
On paper LBR/LBP and section 1 shotguns are the same however.
A lot of police forces won’t just accept “target shooting” i.e going to a club and and shooting at target not in a competition For a section 1 shotgun. They will want to see evidence you actually shoot competitions with them and some will insist on UKPSA or BWSS membership specifically. Section 1 shotguns will also often have conditions that they are only to be used in a course of fire approved by one of the above organisations. My current police force area fortunately aren’t that picky about it.
I’m aware of only one police forces area (not one I’ve lived in) that tries to put any additional conditions on LBP or LBR or asks any other questions.

Edit to add.
The situation Sectjon 1 shotguns and LBP/LBr exist in is the default position for section 1 firearms in the UK. The reason you can handle/shoot rifles and ml pistols without certificates and clubs or in other circumstances is because there are other exemption in the firearms act that allow this. Not because there is specific sections dealing with LBR/LBP and section 1 shotguns.

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u/Bazzatron 8d ago

Great information in the edit there. Thanks for taking the time.

I agree with everything you said up top, and I think that's really well within the statutory reasons to reject. I couldn't ask for a full-bore F-class rifle to shoot competitions with if I'm only a member at a smallbore club - I would expect to show FEO that I'm active in fullbore shooting, just as I had to use club guns leading up to my S1 application for smallbore.

Maybe we're arguing over semantics here - I view "don't like"/"not keen" as something that's a bit more extralegal than "no good reason" (i.e. having a place that requires this kind of firearm to participate).

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u/InstanceMuch8179 8d ago

S1 shotguns tend to be more than just showing you have a place to shoot it. Thats the issue. If you want to just go and plink at your club that shouldn’t be any different to if you want to shoot competition. Nor should you be effectively required to join one of 2 or 3 specific organisations.

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u/GlassMaximum9849 8d ago

I got two sec1 shotguns granted for target and practical at local club. Also allowed to use both for clay pigeon or any other range approved for them.

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u/InstanceMuch8179 8d ago

That’s what I’ve got basiclly the set upon with mine now. But I’m aware other force areas are more anal.

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u/HampshireHunter 9d ago

Yes legal under 24” but only on S1