r/triangle • u/Educational-Hippo167 • 1d ago

So RDU is basically closed?

Sitting on the tarmac in Newark for now 4 hours because some plumber cut an internet cable at RDU and they have a ground stop for any incoming flights.

Will someone please get the tower some walkie talkies so I can come home?

159 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

104 comments sorted by

128

u/StarbuckMcGee07 1d ago

Someone made a big whoops and cut a fiber optic cable

170

u/MAJ0RMAJOR 1d ago

An even bigger whoops is having a single point of failure to critical infrastructure. This all could have been avoided with better risk management.

36

u/Mamma_cita 1d ago

That’s what I am saying! Like #%%^~€££€|!!!! Expletives from your preferred choice list! Why on earth would we run critical services without full redundancy and appropriate risk management/mitigation runbooks that account for this type of scenarios???

5

u/Intuitive_Logical 1d ago

Cheap rules

36

u/thedizzle999 1d ago

Air safety isn't a priority to the Robber Baron and his admin of incompetents.

8

u/MAJ0RMAJOR 1d ago

FAA regulations long predate him

6

u/Tank_Girl_Gritty_235 21h ago

Reagan dealt a grievous injury and it's been bleeding out ever since

2

u/MAJ0RMAJOR 20h ago

Dementia has rarely happened to a more deserving person

20

u/thedizzle999 1d ago

Ah yes, the standard: “it’s Biden/Obama/Bush/Clinton’s fault”… No doubt the FAA has been under funded for a long time, but DOGE cuts have been the most impactful. Can’t blame the past admins for that debacle.

9

u/Excel_User_1977 1d ago

If Republicans keep blaming Biden for everything, then that means that they are too incompetent to fix the issues.

2

u/DCRBftw 1d ago

I don't even like the man, but how is this possibly his fault lol

1

u/thedizzle999 18h ago

I didn't say it was his fault, but since it is a gov't agency under his admin it *is* his responsibility. If he took it seriously he wouldn't have allowed it to be DOGE'd.

1

u/DCRBftw 17h ago

You weren't implying very obviously that he was partially to blame??

Ok then.

17

u/Mamma_cita 1d ago

So this is why they said they had comm issues and had to use text/whatsapp to communicate earlier…. So weird there’s no redundancy! You would have thought there’s at least a protocol to use/invoke SAT comms for these types of scenarios! 🤯😱

44

u/ghjm 1d ago

I used to work on this kind of thing. Satellite communications are often unsuitable because of latency, weather sensitivity etc. The standard was usually to have two independent fiber entrances to the building. But the vendors are constantly trying to kill your redundancy. You spend $50,000 building your grandly engineered multiple building exit fiber network, and six months later, you find out the vendor has decided to reroute your east demarc to the same POP as your west demarc because someone looked at a map and thought the existing setup looked inefficient. And you can't even rely on using two different vendors, because as soon as you turn your back one will have acquired the other.

And even if you have two exits going to two different POPs, trying to get the vendor to show you the actual drawings of the cable routings is like pulling teeth. The vendors consider it proprietary corporate-secret information. So maybe these two supposedly-redundant fiber lines, even if they go from different points on the building to different POPs, might still go through a single conduit for part of their run. This is particularly an issue when there's only access to the building on one side (for example, because there's a runway on the other side).

And that's not even considering the sheer insanity of landscaping contractors. Just because they cut through a fiber optic conduit and paralyzed half the city, doesn't mean they will stop work. Now that sysadmins and network techs are usually working remotely, there's nobody on site who can run outside waving their arms. So even if by some miracle you actually have two completely independent fiber conduits, there's a nontrivial chance the landscapers will just decide to cut both of them.

11

u/Mamma_cita 1d ago

Same. I too worked on this many moons before, and to an extent I get why sat is not the default but we have a lot of options that don’t all mean being dependent on vendors. What I can’t wrap my mind around is why there isn’t legislation that designs certain areas meant for critical services like air traffic control, hospitals, Rail exchanges, 911 centers, etc. exempt from constant impact by decisions made by these vendors and a joint effort to have redundancy and better, actionable DR plans. Can you imagine if this was part of a plot? We would be in real trouble. It bothers me to no end the level of carelessness and disregard for the negative impact and potentially large consequences to people’s lives.

19

u/ghjm 1d ago

Because legislation is too blunt an instrument for this. You can't write law that covers every situation, because it would be thousands of pages, and would have to be updated with every small technological change.

The only way to do this would be to have a government department that hires people who know their shit, chartered by a law that gives them regulatory authority over some defined scope, adequately funded over the long term, and evaluated on its performance according to a detailed understanding of its actual goals rather than on factors like political loyalty or social media outrage.

At one time we had this. The FCC had this kind of authority, and the FAA also when the critical infrastructure is an airport. But the American public has been sold on the insane idea that effective regulation of industry is somehow bad in itself, that "red tape" should be cut, and that vendors should be allowed to do whatever they want whenever they want with no repercussions - unless, of course, the vendors ever deviate from their legally enforced mandate to make shareholder value their highest and only goal.

I sure hope we get back to basic sanity in my lifetime, but the older I get, the less likely this seems.

3

u/Intuitive_Logical 1d ago

This is a matter of cost cutting dressed up in fancy garb as usual, I am afraid

2

u/picklesandvodka 1d ago

In terms of the internet, would this be easier to ensure if the internet were a public utility like power or water?

4

u/ghjm 1d ago

Doesn't seem like it, given that the power and water systems are also creaking at the seams. It doesn't really matter what you call it, the problem is that effective regulation requires a regulatory agency with plenty of good, smart people in stable careers. This is the opposite of DOGE style layoffs, fear and intimidation. To someone who doesn't understand the purpose or importance of the department, it looks like waste.

6

u/Tank_Girl_Gritty_235 20h ago

This is why Teslas are shit cars. They looked at all the wires and said "Why have 50 when you can have one?" so now if a widow stops working so does the power steering. Safety is inefficient by design so a catastrophic failure actually has to come from a catastrophe and not a single fail point or glitch.

Horrifying fact: someone in a nuclear missile Silo dropped a wrench and - in what I can only imagine was the most terrifying and nail biting version of a Rube Goldberg sequence - launched a nuke a few hundred yards into a field in Arkansas. They legitimately were not sure if it was going to detonate until it didn't. Similarly, the nuke accidentally dropped on North Carolina had four fail safes to keep it from fission. Three failed. One of four redundancies saved us from nuking ourselves.

Regulations are written in blood

3

u/gerbal100 1d ago

Redundancy costs money.

7

u/Mamma_cita 1d ago

Lack of it costs money and can even cost lives!

1

u/Intuitive_Logical 1d ago

Not how the cost cutters think, short term always wins

18

u/ActualBus7946 1d ago

Boy am I glad my flight was early this morning

5

u/Mamma_cita 1d ago

Ha! So was mine but my uber driver cancelled my ride and so I missed my original flight.

-4

u/OkCranberry3889 1d ago

Taxi is better

1

u/DCRBftw 1d ago

How?

41

u/rkbarnes13 1d ago

We’re currently at LGA sitting at our gate. Originally, the pilot said there was no delay, but that was an hour ago. He just made an announcement that our delay is extended for at least another 30 minutes.

It’s interesting that WRAL isn’t reporting this at all.

15

u/rkbarnes13 1d ago

Update: We deplaned about an hour ago and were told our new departure time was 8. No update on what’s going on.

8

u/rkbarnes13 1d ago

Just got an update on the Delta app. Delayed until 9:10. The staff at LGA haven’t communicated with us at all.

10

u/rkbarnes13 1d ago

Update at 8:46 PM: our flight is canceled

5

u/thedizzle999 1d ago

Yikes, sorry mate. I imagine there will be more cancels this evening as crews start running out of duty time.

5

u/rkbarnes13 1d ago

They rebooked us to another flight leaving at midnight. We’ll see if we make it out of here. Our big issue is we have dogs and our dog sitter left around 7…when we were originally expected home.

1

u/dothedangthing 1d ago

Sounds like American Airlines

1

u/rkbarnes13 1d ago

Delta!

49

u/DukeofDyslexia 1d ago edited 1d ago

We've been delayed in Washington for nearly 8 hours. It's absolutely brutal, zero communication. You'd think RDU would have redundancies for this exact thing.

Edit: Ground stop extended to 8pm at RDU. Joy

13

u/Mamma_cita 1d ago

Oh great, we are now fully boarded sitting on the tarmac with hungry/tired people and crying babies, awaiting departure…lovely!

2

u/DukeofDyslexia 1d ago

It's a very bad situation.

1

u/smiburho 1d ago

Are you on this Boston flight to RDU too?

10

u/thedizzle999 1d ago

Even the news here in RDU doesn't seem to realize how bad it is. "Briefly on a ground stop" said WRAL.

5

u/NighthawkCP 1d ago

That was from this morning. They got it resolved for a while around midday/early afternoon and then it went to shit again this afternoon has been for hours now.

Planes have been coming in but spacing is way larger than usual. Planes are approaching coming in west of Carrboro and Siler City before turning in. Normally they go over RTP before turning to final.

1

u/thedizzle999 1d ago

It still says that: https://www.wral.com/news/local/raleigh-durham-international-airport-ground-stop-equipment-october-2026/

2

u/NighthawkCP 1d ago

The issue appears to be resolved now. FAA site is cleared of all reports for RDU and I see a LOT more planes on approach and they are following the standard traffic pattern going over the RTP area now on approach for 5L/5R.

1

u/DCRBftw 1d ago

Why would planes have a different approach on landing because of a mechanical issue on the ground?

3

u/NighthawkCP 23h ago

If the control tower doesn’t have as many radio frequencies available or say the radar scopes are acting up then the controllers may not be able to see them as clearly and maintain separation, so they have to use less precise measures.

1

u/DCRBftw 21h ago

How does flying over Carrboro instead of RTP help that?

1

u/NighthawkCP 21h ago

Got more info on it and sounds like the approach frequencies were out completely. Normally the approach controllers are able to manage arriving air traffic as it is descending in to RDU from like the SC and NC borders while departure handles the outbound flights. Without approach control frequencies they were either having to be guided by tower or maybe just having to do it themselves and try to maintain visual separation from other aircraft arriving and departing. So instead of flying the tighter approaches over RDU with less separation they were giving the airport a wider berth for other flights in the airspace and only allowing 1-2 planes in the airspace at a time.

2

u/itszulutime 17h ago

Typically the overlying ARTCC would take over the airspace. Their separation requirements are greater because they are using different radar antennas than the approach control would, AND the air traffic controllers aren’t nearly as familiar with the traffic pattern as the approach controllers who do it day in and day out would be. They simply don’t have the capacity (equipment or experience wise) specific to that operation to go anywhere near 100%.

3

u/gasprofessional919 1d ago

oh no, here they claim there is no ground stop haha

5

u/aquadite 1d ago

It’s indeed a ground stop. For future reference you can check https://nasstatus.faa.gov if airports have major delays/stops.

4

u/gasprofessional919 1d ago

I'm familiar, I worked at an airport, I found it funny bc the local press release was more along the lines of "all good here, nothing to see here, move along" 😂

2

u/Enter_Player_3 1d ago

Whoah. I really lucked out then cuz I just flew in and landed at 1130 pm. No idea this was a thing

3

u/DukeofDyslexia 1d ago

Genuinely happy for you! Ended up driving the couple hours down from DC. Long ass day.

13

u/beyond_undone 1d ago

Wait didn’t an electrician just do this in an airport in the mid Atlantic recently, too (also causing significant delays)??

10

u/ultrabillions 1d ago

yep, philly last month. had to stay an extra night

7

u/SnowboardSquirrel 1d ago

It also happened at SJO in Costa Rica a few days before Philly. Weird that I don’t remember this ever making the news before, but now it’s happened 3x in a few weeks

3

u/beyond_undone 1d ago

My tin foil hat has entered the chat. I was already thinking it was weird with two, but 3 of the same incidents so close (?!)

3

u/LilyPsuedo 1d ago

Tin foil hat here…

2

u/beyond_undone 1d ago

Thanks for confirming, I really thought I was having a crazy case of deja vu

Hopefully you didn’t get impacted by this one too…!

12

u/Mamma_cita 1d ago

They are allowing a handful of flights that have been delayed for hours to take off, but advised that once we clear the runway the planes that are currently awaiting to land will be allowed to land and from there they don’t know what will happen yet. They claim something to do with construction…I just hope the only thing that comes from this all is time lost and irritation and that everyone gets to their destination safe and sound, including me.

I know a lot of people were looking desperate and upset as I boarded just now, big to me, as long as we depart and arrive safely, everything else is just an experience.

4

u/dusanbab 1d ago

This is not volunteer work they are doing. They are for-profit entities. It’s pathetic and we should have less patience for these (non-weather or force majeure) delays. At the end of the day it’s an ops issue.

It didn’t always use to be like this; it’s getting worse and worse.

Lastly not directed at you - obviously there is nothing anyone can do when you’re at the behest of the airlines and airports.

12

u/Lazy-Assumption7417 1d ago

yo rdu was looking like a actual international airport today wtaf😭 busiest i’ve seen terminal 2 in 15 years living here

5

u/StinklePink 1d ago

Had a 7AM flight and thought the same. Really busy. Glad this “plumber incident” happened after I left. I got out on time to JFK.

9

u/thedizzle999 1d ago

RDU just moved to a Ground Delay Program with an *average* delay of 189 minutes. ZID, ZJX, ZTL and ZOB Centers (basically half the US) are also adding a 40 Miles in Trail delay to flights entering ZDC bound for RDU. My guess is either the TRACON or ILS is degraded or out. Amazing there's no backup connection... Gonna be a long night.

1

u/thedizzle999 1d ago

Update: GDP (Ground Delay Program) was cancelled at 20:50 EDT. Residual delays will probably persist for hours, maybe even into the morning.

7

u/NcOpeness 1d ago

i’m supposed to arrive at RDU at midnight. hope things are worked out by then! have not heard a word about a delay on our departure and we are supposed to start boarding in a couple minutes

8

u/NcOpeness 1d ago

they let us board, get in line for takeoff, and then we were told we will be in the plane waiting to take off for 1.5 hours

5

u/DarksidesIronSights 1d ago

40 min circling, 50+ mins on the tarmac, 2 hour delay on takeoff. 

6

u/NighthawkCP 1d ago

Delay program has cleared now. FAA site is cleared of all reports for RDU and I see a LOT more planes on approach and they are following the standard traffic pattern going over the RTP area now on approach for 5L/5R.

4

u/Own_Letter7240 1d ago

Original Delta flight out of ATL was delayed 3 hours, boarded and deplaned twice, now have been sitting on the tarmac to RDU for an hour

2

u/rogi3044 1d ago

Welp, my ATL to RDU was delayed an hour ago, so it sounds like I’m not getting out tonight based on everything I’ve read. I’m so exhausted.

4

u/thedizzle999 1d ago

Ground stop was just canceled, but there are still some significant Miles in Trail delays, so it will be a long night.

5

u/Shot-Swimming-9098 1d ago

Where's that happy chipper /u/rduairport account to give us the latest updates? This is awful for people. Not cool.

2

u/greeneyedgirlsays 22h ago

They didn't post a thing on any of their official channels until 4p. The *I pretend I do not see it, therefore it isn't happening* vibes from an airport that likes to tout how well run it is was, uh, not a great look.

2

u/Unlucky_Welcome_5896 10h ago

They were very prompt about begging for donations a few months back on their socials. How about don’t pay the lowest bid?

3

u/JPin919 1d ago

There are definitely planes taking off and landing at Rdu. Likely still residual delays due to gate or crew availability

3

u/rogi3044 1d ago

Tried to fly out of Austin direct this AM. Boarded, delayed, de-planed, cancelled. Re-booked AUS > ATL > RDU. Delayed in ATL an hour ago. Time will tell.

Been up since 5am. So exhausted.

3

u/Own_Letter7240 1d ago

After 3 hours on the tarmac in ATL we are headed to a gate to deplane. Given a new departure time of 10:52PM.

3

u/Chonjacki 1d ago

Contractors breaking critical infrastructure is a common occurrence here unfortunately.

3

u/Powerful_Deal_7052 1d ago

We were stuck at LaGuardia for 4 hours but finally took off at 2:40 today.

3

u/Scared_Two_2568 1d ago

Sitting on the tarmac at RDU now for over and hr after a 3 hr delay. Trying to get to LGA. Thinking it’s just not going to happen today.

5

u/Scared_Two_2568 1d ago

Heading back to the gate to refuel - told “this is not a cancellation”

1

u/Grisward 1d ago

Geez how much fuel do they burn just sitting on the tarmac?!

5

u/ghjm 1d ago

If you had left your house at the same time, but instead of driving to the airport had just headed towards NYC, how far would you be by now?

12

u/Scared_Two_2568 1d ago

We would’ve been 6 hours in with 2 hrs to go

2

u/Chloebonacci112358 1d ago

They allowed my cousin's flight from San Diego to depart and now ... It's been circling here for 20 mins. Probably will need to refuel at Greensboro

2

u/Odd-Pie-4458 1d ago

Im in Atlanta still waiting to reboard, got deplaned and just in the dark right now

2

u/rogi3044 1d ago

Also in ATL, never boarded just delayed. delta. Looking bleak for me.

2

u/huccimanehuman 1d ago

It’s gonna be a sec

2

u/GeesCheeseMouse 1d ago

Any sites to get status? We are flying back Tuesday .

2

u/dusanbab 1d ago

I thought after 2 hrs you can ask to deplane?

2

u/eggfoam 1d ago

Ground delay for RDU is gone from https://nasstatus.faa.gov/ — any movement for those of you waiting at RDU or trying to get to RDU?

1

u/eggfoam 1d ago

Now the full operations plan linked from that page says: “RDU GROUND DELAY PROGRAM AND ROUTE STRUCTURE CANCELLED, FACILITY IS NORMAL OPS”

That seems promising — but I’m guessing there could be some residual delays for a while still

3

u/TheRealJohnAdams 1d ago

I feel like I was on the last chopper out of Saigon. I got out of there at 5:45 today after an hour delay.

1

u/DowntownDiamond3448 16h ago

This same thing happened weeks ago, at JFK or something. Half my work team missed our gathering in ATL. Good news is I got to walk out with their entrees.

1

u/djseto 12h ago

Philly. I lived through that shit show too.

1

u/carbon-8 1d ago

Just landed at RDU after a 20 min holding pattern in the air and 4 hr delay leaving LGA. Now 20min waiting for a gate. It’s madness

-2

u/DSNCB919 1d ago

Can't be i flew out recently