Has anyone had actual success with slip leash walking?

[u/Warm-Pudding6837]

Please be kind with your advice. We are working hard on getting our reactivity boy to the dog we know he is. We stopped walking him anywhere but around the yard for the longest time. Now he has been to a training boarding and they worked with him on a slip leash. He seems to have done incredibly well with the trainer. He would go on long public walks with a pack of dogs, and from the reports it seems he did just fine. When the trainer does home visits, he does well there too.
When I walk him it is a whole different game. I feel like I am constantly pulling at him, he is freaking out on everything we see. He is choking when I “correct” him, which I know means the leash is improperly fitted but every time the trainer shows me I can’t tell what I’m doing wrong. I know the transition back to home is hard but I am about ready to give up. We are also training our puppy with a slip leash now and it’s the same story there- I am constantly pulling and they cough and I am so afraid of hurting them. The training also advised to choose times on the walk to allow the dog to sniff which I don’t like. I’ve always believed the walk belongs to the dog and I am just the guide to properly interact with the environment. With the slip leash though, this just turns into tug of war. I really don’t want to sully the training they have gotten, but it’s just miserable for me.

TLDR, does anyone have positive advice for slip leash training to translate and actually help lessen reaction and have a peaceful walk?

[u/_MadSuburbanDad_]

I would try a Martingale collar over a slip lead. Ive found that slip leads tend to agitate reactive dogs due to the choking sensation.

[u/MoodFearless6771 → u/_MadSuburbanDad_]

Agree!

[u/queercactus505]

I wouldn't touch a slip lead. When dogs overreact to things on walks, they are having emotional reactions to things around them. The kindest way to help them through it is to build up their resilience and confidence, and change their emotional response to the things they fear. Punishing reactions (which is what you are doing with the slip lead) teaches the dog not to react, but does not change the way the dog feels about what he is afraid of. This can eventually lead to a dog learning that what he usually reacts to still won't hurt him if he doesn't bark. Or, more commonly, the dog learns not to react to avoid punishment while the threat of punishment is there, but the fear does not diminish, or even increases, and learns to react more strongly as his initial communication was ignored.

Have you learned much about dog body language? Look at your dog when he is being walked by the board and train person. Look at his tail - is it wagging and loose, tight and tucked, wagging quick and low? Is his overall body loose and relaxed, or tense and forward, or backward and low? Are his ears forward, backward, pulled tightly back, moving back and forth? Are his eyes open wide, squinty, staring, showing their whites? Is his mouth open or relaxed, or is he panting heavily, or is his mouth closed tight? Does he have a furrowed brow? Take video if you can and watch closely. This will help you understand your dog's mental state.

My guess is that your dog appears to do well with the trainer because he is shut down. This is not the same thing as relaxed or comfortable, though it looks the same to an untrained eye. If you have trouble physically holding your dog, you would do much better to use a harness with a front ring. It comes down to what you prioritize in your relationship with your dogs. If you prioritize obedience above all else, continue to listen to this board and train guy. If you want your dog to trust you and see you as a source of safety, comfort, and sane guidance instead of discomfort, then I would follow your instincts and consider a different path forward.

[u/Few-Knowledge-2004]

my little houdini uses a slip leash type of collar (I think it’s called martingale?) since she can get herself out of regular collars and harnesses (even the one I special ordered on Etsy for her measurements). It’s like a step up from a slip leash but if your dog isn’t prone to escaping collars/harnesses there’s no reason for it because it has no impact on reactivity

[u/Merrickk]

A slip lead is a concerning recommendation from a trainer for a reactive dog. The industry is unregulated so you really need to be careful who you get help from. Here is a guide for picking a qualified trainer https://www.reddit.com/r/reactivedogs/wiki/findingaqp/

[u/Lumpy_Physics3101]

personally i don't like slip leads, i don't think they're great for teaching dogs not to pull and they require a good bit of skill from the owner in using them. i don't think the are typically very helpful for working reactivity.

they're best for snagging a dog who's hard to catch, which is why they get used in kennels (you can loop one over a dog from some distance).

i'd use a front clip harness like an easywalk if your dog will tolerate it.

[u/perroblanco → u/Lumpy_Physics3101]

Seconding this. I've literally never seen them used for anything else besides k9 sports between rings/events. For training? Absolutely not.

[u/Murky-Abroad9904]

do you guys do walking drills before going on a proper walk?

[u/Warm-Pudding6837 → u/Murky-Abroad9904]

Would you mind explaining a walking drill? I don’t think this was a concept we learned in training

[u/Murky-Abroad9904 → u/Warm-Pudding6837]

when i first started teaching my dog to walk on a slip, we basically wouldn't go on proper walks with the slip on. i would put the slip on her and we would take a few steps forward and the second my dog started to pull, i would turn around and walk in the opposite direction. we basically would walk in small circles until she got the hang of just walking close to me. over time, we would increase the distance until i felt confident that she was getting the hang of things.

[u/raspberrykitsune]

Can you just rent a sniffspot and take him there to sniff and run around and skip the walks ? Or drive to secluded hikes? It sounds like where you're walking is very stressful for both of you.

BTW, dogs frequently shut down with new people and don't show their true selves , that's why when fostering and adopting new dogs there's that 3-3-3 protocol. Add in to the fact if he is nervous with other dogs he will be even more shut down. So it looks like training is 'okay' but it's just because he's so uncomfortable he's trying to be invisible.

I used to work at a dog daycare and we saw this frequently. Dogs would be reactive outside of daycare but 'good' at daycare.

The analogy I came up with was: if you encounter 1 bear in the woods, you will bark and scream your head off to try and scare the bear away. If you encounter 10 bears in the woods you will not say a peep and hope they don't notice you.

[u/big-grouper]

The training also advised to choose times on the walk to allow the dog to sniff which I don’t like. I’ve always believed the walk belongs to the dog and I am just the guide to properly interact with the environment. 

I think this is the mismatch.

I'm not a dog trainer but have been educating myself the best I can as a dog owner who is owner training my dog.

Slip lead walking is a very "obedience based" style of training and walking.

I think your trainer has your dog loose leash walk with the slip lead and at times lets your dog sniff and it sounds like you have a different set of rules/expectations for your dog. Dogs don't do well with this. They do best where expectations are very clear to them. Which is why the dog probably does better with the trainer. The dog knows if I pull, the slip lead does this, better not pull even if I see a dog. Where it sounds like you let your dog have their own rules and you "guide" the dog to interact with the environment.

I also view walks like you, they should sniff because the walk is for them!

Here's what I am trying. I walk my dog on a flat collar for training walks. Loose leash walking is the expectation, we do not pull, we heel, listen to commands, etc.

We do sniffy walks on a harness - as far away from other dogs as possible. I'm talking drive to a middle of nowhere park/field sort of thing. But here I don't care if he pulls and explores. He's on a long line, recall is the only expected behavior not heel/loose leash walking.

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[u/FrenchFry1515]

We have always had a martingale because the rescue we got our dog from required it upon adoption. It’s always worked well for us when positioned correctly.
We trained with a slip lead for about a year and it only worked temporarily. A trainer convinced us to buy it. I didn’t love using it I feel like at times she was almost worse.

We switched trainers and learned other methods that were game changes for us. I’d like to always have a martingale, but I don’t think I’d go back to a slip lead.

[u/reactivedogs-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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We do not allow the recommendation of aversive tools, trainers, or methods. This sub supports LIMA and we strongly believe positive reinforcement should always be the first line of teaching and training. We encourage people to talk about their experiences, but this should not include suggesting or advocating for the use of positive punishment. LIMA does not support the use of aversive tools and methods in lieu of other effective rewards-based interventions and strategies.

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[u/Sweetshopavengerz]

What kidney of dog do you have? If you have a sighthound, please don't use a slip lead - the prey drove and speed, along with their long thin neck, means the risk of injury is much higher.

[u/palebluelightonwater]

I've used a limited slip leash (similar to a martingale collar) with my dogs under controlled conditions to teach leash pressure response. It's a lot easier for them to feel and pay attention to leash/collar pressure than teaching with a harness. Once they understand and practice a bit, you can transfer the same lesson to walking on a harness, which is what I usually use for actual walks.

If your trainer didn't show you how to teach leash pressure response, it's basically teaching the dog proactively to move with the leash pull rather than pulling against it. Teaching it is pretty easy - you'll start with just touching the collar, then mark and reward. Progress to grabbing the collar, mark and reward each time, and then progress to waiting for the dog to be still before reward/release. Then, pull the dog a little bit by the collar and reward when they move with you. Then switch to a leash, pull a little bit, mark and reward when they move with you. Then you can add bigger movements and more complex movements. If they pull away at any point rather than moving big with you, go back and make it easier again.

There's a good chance this is what the trainer taught your dog, so they should hopefully know what to do and like doing it.

I don't use the slip leash or martingale collar for corrections ever, I don't want to choke my dog. I sometimes use it to walk one of my dogs - the one who knows not to pull in it and can walk safely (the other one came to me with trachea damage, probably from leash pulling, and I won't risk him in it.)