r/microsoft • u/Immediate-Link490 • 4d ago
News Microsoft is being suspended from program to apply for green cards for H-1B visa workers, Vance says
https://apnews.com/article/h1b-visa-program-vance-microsoft-e7b3a407f822702b269ee277d21343ea44
u/Icy_Fly207 4d ago
You can be against Steph miller cruelism and acknowledge that corporations have abused h1b and immigration at large
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u/pdinc 4d ago
Yeah but throwing the baby out with the bath water is the MO of this admin in pursuit of a news bit to rile up the base
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u/CreativeGPX 4d ago
It's about process. Is the Trump administration using a fair, data-first process to suspending these companies that follows the law and do they have an actual understanding and plan for how to deal with the fallout? Are they giving an amount of notice and clarity on what the right way is so that people have a chance to follow it?
You can be against H1B visas as they are, while being dubious of a person who says that's what they're solving.
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u/hobovalentine 4d ago
'data first' lol yeah not really.
I know of a case where they brought someone from India when there were qualified people state side but this was more about nepotism rather than getting someone cheaper via the H1B visa so yes there are companies that abuse the H1B visa and it's not even for cost savings a lot of times.
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u/Whytho12333 4d ago
Do you have evidence of wrong doing? Fair question to require the administration to. Microsoft will find out in court im sure
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u/Weegee_Carbonara 3d ago
Trump is only suspending those Visas for political enemies. This isn't about defending Microsoft.
This is about being against authoritarianism.
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u/Nayatrei77 4d ago
H1B itself is not the real problem, but it makes a nice political football I guess.
If you really want to stop the issue, heavily tax offshoring of skilled jobs and ban the H1B mill companies like Tata from the program. They are the real abusers, I have never worked with someone from one of these companies who was better than any of my native coworkers. I have on the other hand worked with many great H1B direct hires, who are actually compensated fairly.
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u/UsualNoise9 4d ago
You sir have not strolled through the Microsoft campus recently. As a fellow immigrant, the problem is not whether the h1b hires are great or not. The problem is indentured servitude and heavily skewed hiring.
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u/ZoomZoom_Driver 4d ago
This. H1Bs are being used to exploit talent and keep them in perpetual service without rights.
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u/whateverkitty-1256 3d ago
It's also to put wage pressure and leverage against U.S. workers. Always add "at that wage" to about any group provided visas. It can be J visas.
We couldn't find ski lift workers (at that wage) so we need foreign students. We couldn't find summer workers at our restaurant on the Cape ( at that wage. In those living conditions) etc..
We couldn't find sales force admin (at this wage) ( or some other role could easily fill with local talentl product, analytics etc. ) so we need an H1B.
The100k H1B fee made total sense since it determined pretty quickly if it was truly a scarcity issue. It 100 percent should apply to renewals/extensions too.
I would increase the application fee as well ( I realize they're trying to fix application stuffing but still x dollars per application could go straight to job trading for US born people)
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u/AlasKansastan 3d ago
Yep. As soon as the lifties wanted enough to pay rent there were suddenly Filipinos everywhere at Alyeska and a lot of unemployed locals- who’s housing got swooped up by Anchorage suits looking for a winter rental who could pay 2x what the liftie could, for a second home. They house the Filipinos 5 deep wherever they can stuff them.
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u/cosmic_backlash 4d ago
Its well paid indentured servitude at least. US citizens can't get it cause they'll want a eventual promotion or leave. The main winner is the corporation. Screws everyone else.
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u/rikisha 4d ago
"Indentured servitude" is a bit dramatic... those folks can leave at any time and they know what they signed up for. They're also paid more than most American workers.
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u/RonyElZaib 2d ago
Both of those things are true at the same time.
The quality of the worker is mediocre, while indentured servitude gives middle management their empire building fantasy
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u/Environmental_Ear321 23h ago
Plenty of H-1B workers change jobs and have new employer file change of employer petitions...
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u/No_Tooth684 4d ago
I worked at LTIMindtree for a bit at their Microsoft office. I’d say there were maybe two people on my whole team that were as technical as the FTEs. Heavily hierarchical while getting paid dogshit wages. Everyone was on a Visa and the treatment they got reflected that leadership knew they couldn’t up and leave.
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u/dannyvegas 4d ago
H1b is in fact a HUGE problem.
Tata, Infosys, cognizant, HCL. and others were also implicated in this.
What you are describing about offshore labor is called a tariff.
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u/Nayatrei77 4d ago
Good, I'm glad they are affected too. The level of abuse within Microsoft is nowhere near the scale of abuse at the contracting firms, and at least the ones hired directly by Microsoft are compensated at par with citizen FTEs.
My point was that in terms of scale, the number of jobs impacted by H1B is much smaller than the number of jobs being outsourced to cheap parts of Europe, India, and Latin America across the whole economy. This is also where the true wage suppression is happening. I want to address the fraud but I also want the jobs to stay in America. And this action, which only addresses the green card path, does not do that.
Edit: fix typo
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u/dannyvegas 4d ago
In the case of H1B, the situation is that 70% of the people coming here on H1B are from ONE REGION of INDIA. It's an ethnic labor arbitrage cartel. And it needs to be stopped.
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u/Luvs2Spooge42069 4d ago
Government of India openly declares this as a main pillar of its growth strategy, lobbying countries for looser immigration restrictions for Indian nationals (or rules that will benefit them indirectly) so they can export their surplus population and collect remittances and build diaspora power in their host nations. Any rhetoric regarding “talent exchange” in relation to trade deals and so on with them is referring to this.
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u/GravitationalLense 4d ago
Entire departments are just 100% H1Bs. Stop lying to people. It needs to end as well as offshoring.
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u/ZlatantheRed 4d ago
No, it’s the issue. It’s not the skill of the H1B, but the thousands imported for entry level jobs. I am surprised Microsoft got the slap and not Amazon, they’re the worst. Literally people in level 4 HR roles on H1B
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u/skeet_scoot 4d ago
H1-Bs should be eliminated right now for tech. We have plenty of American talent.
It won’t disrupt grabbing top-tier PHD minds and such as those come through visas other than H1-Bs.
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u/Far-Arugula973 4d ago
This doesn't eliminate h1-bs. It removes the path for employer sponsored green cards for h1-b employees. It makes h1-bs even more exploitive.
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u/LordDarthShader 4d ago
The H visa is not the big problem. The problem is moving all these projects to India and other low cost geo. It has been going for years now. More jobs have been lost to Indians in India than H1b workers.
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u/skeet_scoot 4d ago
This is 100% a problem as well that I think needs to be addressed.
If Microsoft lays off American workers and hires Indian workers in the same year they should face a MASSIVE FINE that gets paid to the laid-off workers.
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u/krustyy 4d ago
You've clearly never worked somewhere where those H1b visas are exploited. Here's how it goes down:
- Company needs some new tech workers. Average pay is $160k for the experience they need.
- Company puts out job req at $90k. Gets no good applicants because the pay is garbage.
- Company claims there's nobody in the US to fill this job and files for the H1b visa workers
- Company hires 3 h1b visa workers at $50k to fill the $160k role needs.
- Company flounders because the workers are all garbage and the product gets delayed or is full of bugs.
- In response to this loss of income they lay off 3 of the US based tech workers with the highest paid salaries.
- A year later they bring on 3 more h1b visa workers at $50k each using the same technique.
- Now the company that needed 5 US based workers at $160k each would have had to pay out $800k annually but now they've got 1 poor US guy making $160k and 6 low skilled visa workers getting $50k each for a total of $460k budget, shaving $350k off the programmer budget to show off to those shareholders.
I once worked at a company that had like 80 dudes from India and like 4 guys from the US doing all the coding. There was a very apparent difference between the skill levels and the quality of the product clearly suffered because of it.
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u/HUGE_FAT_ANIME_TITS 4d ago
Not to mention that once they get into leadership positions, a massive amount of ethnic nepotism occurs with the hiring.
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u/LordDarthShader 4d ago
I've worked at some of the big ones and H1b or not, they had the same total comp as any US resident in the same level band.
Might be different in those consulting companies doing the abuse, but at least in the big ones (Amazon, Meta, MSFT, etc) that (what you said) it doesn't happen.
There are different type of problems though, like nepotism and hiring friends, and bringing more friends and refusing to hire non-friends.
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u/richardelmore 4d ago edited 4d ago
I don't know where you worked and how things happened there but I worked the last 20 years of my career at a moderately well know tech company in Redmond and had a lot of co-workers who were on H1B visas and I never saw or heard any indication that they were treated any differently than domestics workers.
The issue there was not bringing people to the US to fill jobs, it was moving jobs to other countries to eliminate domestic positions. When there were large layoffs in the US hiring was still full speed ahead in India.
I suspect that eliminating/reducing the number of H1B visas will just accelerate this trend.
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u/ducksflytogether1988 3d ago
Yep. I currently am that guy. I make a decent salary but everyone else on my team is an H1B foreigner with zero skills so I have to do all the work since they contribute nothing
Im quitting after I get my bonus in March
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u/Butters133 4d ago
PERMs require meeting or exceeding the prevailing wage minimum set by the department of labor. Your numbers don’t track with that minimum. H-1Bs require the higher of the prevailing wage or the actual wage paid to US workers with similar experience and qualifications.
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u/deadshot7 4d ago
yep, same thing at the company I work at now. They've started to backtrack a little when they realized how bad it got
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u/mavewrick 4d ago
How are these companies still in business? If they are hiring cheap under skilled labor who then ship a buggy product year after year, wouldn't that company just die?
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u/krustyy 4d ago
you'd be surprised how long a company can hobble by with a poor product.
This particular product was an online service. The most egregious thing I heard they did was every time they had a new sale, deal or special discount of any kind, they were forced to spin up an entirely new instance of the website with those new discounts hard coded in. The infrastructure team was managing hundreds of copies of the exact same website because the backend developers never thought to change their code to support multiple pricing models on one single site. It was a nightmare to maintain and required significant additional infrastructure and dev support, but it did work.
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u/Dependent_Sun_7033 4d ago
That’s absolutely bullshiit -if we are talking about MSFT or any other top IT companies. Pay per level is standardized, with PR allowing you to pay someone maybe 30% less base salary.
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u/Spiritual_Tennis_641 4d ago
But even if they are the same or better skill level, it’s not OK to outsource those jobs, or guess what our workers will be the bad ones. Our education system is already going downhill every year. This would compound it even further.
I have yet to meet a university graduate, or otherwise that truly is ready to hit the ground running. There are years of spinoff knowledge required that only come from on the job experience.
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u/krustyy 4d ago
yeah, the problem isn't that Indian workers are garbage; it's that any project requires a certain percentage of highly skilled individuals and can tolerate a certain number of green workers.
And when leadership pays no attention to this requirement for a quality product they shop for the cheapest way to put butts in seats as possible, and they end up getting low performing, recent graduate, bottom of their class h1b workers with no experience. They hire garbage foreign workers over quality US workers and garbage US workers because they can get more butts in seats from someone outside the US.
Spinning up development teams in foreign countries like India can have other problems, but the quality of the workers working locally from India makes it very apparent that the hiring pool of H1b workers vs foreign office workers is an entirely different pool of people.
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u/KarmaHorn 4d ago
Good universities, of which there are many, produce good/prepared students. This sounds like a you problem where you expect the best students to apply for some unskilled, entry level position that requires no brain or capacity. Or, conversely, you are expecting bottom of the barrel people to produce above average results.
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u/snusmini 4d ago
Yes, 0.03% of the workforce is the big problem 😆
More theatre by an admin that doesn’t know what they are doing.
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u/DonkeyTron42 4d ago
I remember working at this company where I had a co-worker under an H1-B that came through a staffing company that specializes in that type of labor. He got a $25k bill from the IRS because all of his tax withholdings were pocketed by the staffing agency. They basically told him he can either pay the bill or he'll be deported before he can file a case. It's some fucked up shit.
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u/TheGuyThatDoesHisJob 4d ago
Of course, you're sharing your experience, and that's important. Equally important is to add that this is a pattern, not the rule.
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u/rexspook 4d ago
This has been a “problem” for decades and people have been saying that everything is moving to India for just as long. In reality they can’t move everything to India or they already have. Do you really think they’d go through the hassle of h1b if it was so easy to just move all the big projects to India?
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u/LordDarthShader 4d ago
It's an investment as everything. Is not only India now, there are offices in Africa too, which I assume they are even cheaper.
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u/Adventurous_Bath3999 2d ago
Have you worked in the tech area where they employ a large number of H1Bs? Seems like you haven’t, or that you are misrepresenting.
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u/linuxwes 4d ago
Reddit really seems hypocritical on this subject. When people come from south of the border to flood our blue collar jobs like construction with low wage workers it's all about how we are a country of immigrants and need to protect them. But when they are coming for the tech jobs suddenly it's a big problem.
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u/powenowicks 2d ago
Fortunately I'm consistent about both. American businesses need to prioritize American worker employment. Period. Full stop.
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u/JuliusCeaserBoneHead 4d ago
Isn’t it because it’s nuanced? There are no shortages of American tech workers looking for jobs. But rarely have I met an American in the landscaping, roofing, hospitality and those backbreaking jobs. Of course Reddit is nuanced on those cos someone has to do that low skill low paying jobs.
Why should Americans be relegated to second class in our own country for high paying jobs?
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u/Fabulous_Emu4066 4d ago
Where in America are you? Tons of Americans do this type of work…
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u/DryMulberry2382 4d ago
Liberals are ok with immigrants as long as they are lower status.
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u/midwestia 4d ago
Because there is a domestic NEED for those workers. We do not have a domestic need for white collar college educated work. Those jobs are desirable to Americans. The only reason these jobs are imported and outsourced is greed and to indenture desperate foreigners.
I don’t know why this is hard to understand.
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u/kidcurry96 4d ago
Plenty of blue collar Americans would do that job. The number would actually go up if the pay in those jobs increase
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u/Lame_Johnny 4d ago
Blue collar jobs are not desirable to you, because you are not a blue collar worker.
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u/KarmaHorn 4d ago
They got a “blue collar mindset” if that means unsophisticated and under qualified. The guy you’re responding to deserves a “white collar” position by birth.
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u/Adventurous_Bath3999 2d ago
This is not a personal thing!! The country needs certain blue-collar jobs, and that is what it is about!
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u/Infamous_Mud482 2d ago
Yeah. I specialized in something and when there are jobs here for that thing I want to be in the running to do it.
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u/KarmaHorn 4d ago
Education is the biggest component of a robust economy on a macro level, and individual economic mobility on a micro level. Your argument ignores the big factors for a manufactured grievance.
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u/No_Permission6930 3d ago
Who is able to assert there’s a NEED for some people but not others? The market is the only tool we have to measure NEED. If an employer says I NEED this person, who are you to tell them, wait no, you don’t need that person, hire this random person who graduated from X community college with a GPA of 2.3, or gtfo
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u/SalamanderFresh9272 4d ago
I think the same people mad about H1Bs are mad about everything else you describe. Atleast I am. And manufacturing as well.
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u/Green-Mycologist6697 4d ago
Yea it's because they want immigrants to do the jobs they don't want to do.... not the jobs they can't do!
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u/Garsandbells 4d ago
Bingo. Reddit is mostly young tech folks. People generally look out for themselves. Most people don’t really have principles, they just virtue signal when it’s convenient.
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u/PreciousJackal 1d ago
Yea coz those are the jobs no one wants to do it seems
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u/Material_Lion_9554 16h ago
Back handed bigotry.
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u/PreciousJackal 12h ago
Eh? If there’s people who wanted to do those jobs then we wouldn’t invite so many from south of the border innit.
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u/chintakoro 3d ago
glad to hear it’s changed. i did my undergrad at a top 10 CS program in the US, and I have to say that the American students were… largely subpar. Don’t get me wrong, the top American students were great, but the other 95% were in it for a well paying job rather than developing hard skills. I was shocked when local class friends i had to spoonfeed to help them pass landed jobs in big tech companies.
It was so bad that the Masters program separated applicants into local vs. foreign pools — I talked to a prof about applying and he looked at my grades and said: if you’re a US citizen then you’re easily in; if you’re foreign, there’s no way anything less than a perfect GPA will work. several years later, i looked back and saw that 80+% were foreign students.
so i’m surprised to hear there’s suddenly a strong local pool of talent today.
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u/ducksflytogether1988 3d ago
I feel the same about H1Bs
We are told they are all the best and brightest but having worked with dozens of H1Bs in my carrer they certainly are at best equal to your average US CS grad
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u/Adventurous_Bath3999 2d ago
Your comment is biased and totally unfair. If you think those coming on F1 are all great, or those coming on H1Bs are too, you are either lying or misled, or both.
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u/chintakoro 1d ago
here’s the thing: the US had the opportunity to filter for top schools and top paying companies to get exceptional talent while weeding out less than R1 schools and lower paying positions (say, under 100k). But instead it decided to lump everyone as baaaad. It will either greatly benefit US workers or drain the US of its top entrepreneurs. Either way, I’m ready with my popcorn to cheer on whatever happens because folks outside the US are gearing up to benefit either ways.
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u/ecleipsis 3d ago
They also need to ban offshoring then too if the priority is American workers. What’s to stop those H1Bs from going back to wherever they were before the US and being re-hired.
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u/ryan__rr 4d ago
So they’ll just hire them in India…
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u/SalamanderFresh9272 4d ago
Rather that than bringing them here to take our jobs, sitting in our old seats.
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u/11ce_ 4d ago
If that was an option, they would’ve done that in the first place. H1-Bs are very expensive compared to offshoring.
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u/Unlikely_Promise_758 3d ago
The reason it wasn’t an option was that any engineer in India who realized they were as good or better than those in the U.S. demanded a move to the U.S. via H1B. Now they have no option so they will keep working in India.
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u/11ce_ 3d ago
If companies don’t need workers in America they wouldn’t have given those options in the first place.
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u/Unlikely_Promise_758 2d ago
Company A and Company B both want top talent. Company A realizes top talent from around the globe wants to immigrate to the U.S.. In order to be more attractive, they start sponsoring visas. Company B realizes they need to do it too. Simple as that.
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u/11ce_ 2d ago
H1-B visas are not for top talent, and the people entering on those are not top talent. Removing H1-Bs would not affect top talent. They would come over on O-1 visas.
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u/Unlikely_Promise_758 2d ago
H1B talent at top companies at least are top talent. The tech innovation in America and the stock market would agree with this. Yes they would simply shift to O1 and the reason people don’t like O1 is because there’s no path to a green card on one.
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u/BrianKronberg 4d ago
I wonder how long it will take to get every H-1B visa person out of government positions? You’d think they would focus there first.
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u/berndverst Employee 4d ago
You cannot work for the government on H-1B. You can generally not even do that on a Greencard - only for certain roles of national importance.
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u/tlrider1 4d ago
I guess when someone now asks me to name something good Trump did, I may have, after 6 years, found it!
Someone pinch me!
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u/Throwaway_noDoxx 4d ago
Ima wait to see massive penalties for all the MSFT job listings in Hyderabad and Delhi first.
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u/JollyCooper473 4d ago
I mean these jobs will just go to India, Philippines, etc... Not Americans.
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u/gaytechdadwithson 4d ago
cool, so nothing lost? maybe some income tax, but i’m sure that money is posted away anyhow.
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u/No-Lettuce3564 4d ago
Sure, but now local housing can increase there and not domestically. No reason a 2k sq ft built in 1980 house should be 1.8 million
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u/karepan999 4d ago
I’m all for the best talent but Microsoft has abused the H1-B and long term repetitive contract workers for well over a decade.
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u/gorliggs 3d ago
Plenty of other companies in healthcare that should be on the list. All our data going to India is absolutely atrocious. Plenty of CRO companies that should be barred and fined.
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u/SirBrownHammer 4d ago edited 3d ago
I’m sympathetic to the H1B visa workers coming from overseas. It’s got to be really tough to uproot yourself and thrive in another country. I’ve worked with some really great ones, honestly.
I come from the vendor side, so it’s possible I come with a unique perspective. It’s a running joke in our org that vendors are treated worse than H1Bs and actually get paid less.
That being said, and I can only speak for Azure, I could not ascertain why they were truly needed over a domestic U.S. worker. Yes we work on some unique and tough problems, but nothing that an educated American could not handle.
Close to a year working on my contract, it was suddenly ended and I was told the majority of the work will be done in Taiwan now. Offshoring. How does stopping H1B’s limit the expansion of offshoring. I feel that it will only increase now without any other regulations.
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u/PuzzleHeaded3690 3d ago
I came to the US as a college educated immigrant from a developing country (not H1B). Scrubbed toilets, waited tables, got myself a graduate degree, lots of hard work and good luck, and now I have a US passport and work at Microsoft. It's really ironic that now I am too expensive for the company...
Of course it ain't gonna change anything, and MSFT will continue sending more roles to IDC. And I am convinced that this is some power play to facilitate some inside deal (cheaper data centers for the gov or something). And yet, it still tickled my heart when I heard the despicable JD Vance talk about it:) While it won't change anything, just for a second it made me feel heard by our government.
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u/OkInstruction4655 4d ago
All this does is move more jobs to Microsoft India. Virtue signaling at best before mid-terms. Company will go where labor is cheap and abundant.
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u/Bucket_Of_Magic 4d ago
Start an initiative to switch enterprise to Linux in America and Satya will be voted out the next day and the Indian branch will be closed. Its very well known that Satya is working to make Microsoft a primarily Indian company.
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u/The_Ashamed_Boys 4d ago
Still better than allowing it.
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u/OkInstruction4655 4d ago
Long term this will impact US more. As more high valued and complex work moves to India, Us graduates will find their opportunities limited by the kind of work they do in US. It will end up being more government or national security related.
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u/Icy-Coconut9385 4d ago
I have no idea why this is even a discussion. No other country in the world imports labors while their own qualified citizens are sitting on unemployment.
And yet in the US this is deemed a controversial position.
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u/Petrichordates 4d ago
Literally every place in the world wants to recruit top talent. You're just xenophobic, and make up absurd claims to justify it.
Also unemployment isn't even high lol
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u/TeeDee144 4d ago edited 4d ago
Vance if you read this, you need to pass a law to prevent the surge of hiring Microsoft is going to do in India now at IDC. They’re just going to backfill American roles in IDC.
You know what’s even cheaper than a visa worker? A worker in IDC. You can hire like 3 idc workers for the cost of 1 us worker.
It’s a cat-and-mouse game and Microsoft is just going to move engineering to IDC. Then there won’t be any American tech jobs.
But Microsoft has also been abusing visas forever. These visas are supposed to only be used if there is not an American who can do the job. But I’ve seen so many coworkers who are just building dashboards or working on simple tasks that an American could easily be trained on. So Microsoft had this coming.
But they also need to be slapped harder because they’re going to continue to screw over the American workers and just ship tends of thousands of jobs overseas now.
My team hasn’t hired an external employee from America in 3-4 years. But we’ve hired 10+ in India this year already.
In many ways, I think Microsoft knew this was coming and is already in front of it.
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u/Dancin-Ted-Danson 4d ago
Nah, they will replace those jobs with AI for the most part. It spits out better code then what's coming out of IDC without all the additional hassle as well
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u/r3turn_null 4d ago
Good. Fuck H-1B abuse.
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u/Green-Mycologist6697 4d ago
Relax you won't pass the interview. We aren't taking your jobs
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u/r3turn_null 4d ago edited 4d ago
So you're for abusing H-1B, or are you denying that it's being abused?
edit: aaaand u/Green-Mycologist6697 was banned. Guess they weren't relaxed enough. They seemed like such a good person /s
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u/halford2069 4d ago
great move forward and on top of the 100k h1b fee, more than a lot of admins have done in this area.
still a lot more to he done though.
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u/wown123456 4d ago
There should really be a separate visa program for a US graduates and reduced H1B cap for a true foreign workers on very specific job functions
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u/ZookeepergameFalse38 4d ago
Looks like MSFT missed their "payment" to Trump.
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u/Ataru074 3d ago
This is exactly what it is. This is kabuki theater for the elections.
Republicans had house, senate, presidency, and the Supreme Court for 2 years, if they wanted to reform and restructure legal immigration to the US they had the time and power to do so, but the only thing they did was to transform it in a bribe to hire schema.
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u/Actual__Wizard 3d ago edited 3d ago
Good.
Companies like Microsoft need to stop selling out Americans to get cheap labor.
It's totally disgusting...
We (American computer science graduates) were told by the people in the education system that we were "guaranteed jobs."
I have 25+ years in the field and I've never even had a conversation with a big tech company about employment, ever...
So, I took what work I could get and I have 25+ years of experience in SEO, which is basically the same thing as agentic AI tech that doesn't work right, which is weird, because our spam bots worked great.
I'm just going to say this right now: Obviously the people with 25+ years of experience working with this stuff can figure out what is wrong with agentic AI tech.
Is Microsoft ever going to ask what the problem is?
Do they just not care about anything?
So, now they're rolling the tech that doesn't work right into Windows?
I'll be in Cleveland starting a tech comapny.
If Microsoft doesn't know what's going to happen: Okay well I do... It's a bunch of idiots...
Seriously that tech doesn't understand any thing... It's a spam bot powered automation tool, it's legitimately the dumbest thing I've ever seen...
That's what Microsoft does now. They play follow the leader and copy cat other companies instead of hiring people they know what they're doing... It's pathetic beyond words...
The people that know what's going on and are capable of building this tech are right here.
When is Microsoft going to stop shoving their head into the sand?
Wow guys, is their plan going to fail? I'm an AI developer, hmm, well they're doing stuff in the wrong order, so obviously it's not going to work correctly... I wonder how much money they have to waste to figure that out? Because I've spent zero and I know what's going to occur already... It's not possible that system will work correctly. It's impossible... There's needed components that are not there... So, the managers at Microsoft are so ultra stupid now that they don't understand cause and effect?
Why is what I am doing right now the only way to communicate with Microsoft?
This is it. This is the only thing I can do to try to Microsoft and they don't listen or care.
They're about unleash a giant chaos bomb on to their users and it's going to cause massive damage. That tech does not work correctly... Is anybody listening?
I'm just lost in an ocean of spam bots, robo callers, email spammers, academic fraudsters, resume fraudsters, crooked managers, and everything else.
Gee guys, what should my company in Cleveland do? What is the problem in the world that needs to be solved? Gee I don't know guys.
Microsoft as a company has completely lost the ability to communicate...
I wonder why... Looks at spam bot tech that produces text with out understanding anything about how language works, which is required for listening...
Here's your daily reminder that LLM tech is legitimately designed backwards:
Word usage patterns emerge because of the meaning of the words. The meaning of the words is not defined by their word usage.
LLM tech is legitimately bass ackwards... Obviously a massive mistake that a company like Microsoft would make!
I've known that for years too and I've watching these tech companies make complete fools out of themselves. They still haven't figured out that they're doing it backwards...
They still do not know what a dictionary is either...
I mean seriously dude, they're so stupid that they think the meaning of words comes from using them? Holy cow dude! We need to get the flunkies out of these tech companies immediately!
I mean seriously: One would think somebody would say "hey there's a guy on reddit that's saying that we're doing it wrong, can somebody talk to that guy to see if what he's saying make any sense?"
It's never happened... The entire company is totally useless and has no ability to communicate...
Seriously man, how many more emails do I have to send that never get read?
So, okay, they want to build cool AI tech, me too, can we do this already? Hello?
I guess I'll just have to form a competing company because that's easier then communicating with Microsoft... At least when I fill those forms out, people listen... Unlike the entire organization of Microsoft...
I mean seriously, my entire career reads like an article from the Onion... "Man from Ohio, too Smart to work at Big Tech, retires young after helping small businesses fix big tech company problems that are too hard for big tech to fix."
I'm not cleaning up these people's messes anymore. Right now, they're in the way of innovation and they need to get out the way... Their plan is to fail and it is absolutely pathetic...
They're just going to keep hiring mathematicians from foreign countries to try to come up with a system that processes English, with out understanding English, instead of just asking somebody who knows how English works, how to build a system...
It's legitimately the dumbest thing I've ever seen done ever...
It couldn't possibly be further from correct if it tried, it's legitimately backwards...
So, there's nobody at Microsoft that passed kindergarten and knows that words have meaning?
Guys, I've been working on systems that process word meaning since I saw Smarter Child in the year 2000... Hello? Is there anybody at Microsoft that knows what is going on at all?!?! The purpose of that project was to create people like me, that know how to build better systems... Here I am, does anybody want to talk to me about to build that?!?!
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u/Huh-what-2025 2d ago
are you ok?
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u/Actual__Wizard 2d ago edited 2d ago
No, I'm sick of being scammed by scam tech companies like Microsoft.
I'm sick of being their victim.
It's time to shut these scam factories down.
How about yourself?
It's not just them, I had multiple profitable and ethical businesses tossed into a trash can by Google. That's what they do, they just screw everybody over.
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u/Striking-County6275 3d ago
A lot of mofos who don’t work in tech are upset about this. I do and it’s annoying af to death with foreign contractors.
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u/Key_Shop6647 4d ago
Great! We have plenty of qualified US citizens to do those tech jobs. Entire OPT/STEM OPT/H1b/EB2/EB3 pipelines need to be eliminated
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u/Top_Special3917 3d ago
Microsoft and other companies have been effectively selling green cards. In exchange they get low wage employees who have difficultly transferring and therefore can be underpaid.
It is abuse of the system and harms American citizens both directly and indirectly.
Wage stagnation, mass migration, housing crisis, infrastructure costs, tribalism, caste systems, imported political issues, increased health care costs, chain migration, anchor babies.
All so a company worth almost 4 trillion can save on costs and control their employees.
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u/GameOfBears 4d ago
Oh don't tell me these optionals from Ohio coming to Seattle to fill out the vacant positions.
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u/lukewhale 4d ago
This probably has nothing to do with Microsoft’s recent commitment to open source AI sorry SI
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u/CodedRose 3d ago
Ngl, msft criminally underpays their H1B employees. I'm glad this is happening to them.
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u/Mental-Most-7168 1d ago
Surprisingly there is a lack of diversity in tech. It feels like everyone in a department comes from the same part of India.
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u/Tathas 4d ago
What bribe didn't Microsoft pay yet?