r/kobudo • u/AlexM529 • Jun 04 '26
Bō/Kon Bo Kata Equivalent
Hello all, I hope you are well. I am currently in the process of trying to make a list of Bo Kata that includes kata from Matayoshi, Ryukyu Kobudo, and Matayoshi Kobudo. I was just wondering if anyone knew what the equivalent Ryukyu Kobudo Kata would be for the Matayoshi Kobudo Kata shishi No Kon (typically the last kata taught in Matayoshi).
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u/yajmah Jun 04 '26
I study ryukyu kobudo and we have shushi no kon sho/dai so maybe that's something?
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u/AlexM529 Jun 04 '26
I am not talking about shushi no kon (the very first kata people learn), I am talking about shishi no kon (a more advanced kata)
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u/yajmah Jun 05 '26
Ok fair enough, we have a couple of kihon kata before Sushi and I am only a lowly shodan so apologies for my ignorance.
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u/Darth_Uno Jun 05 '26
Hi Alex, as a practitioner of Matayoshi Kobudo currently training in Okinawa under Sensei Shimabukuro Tsuneo I wanted to just clarify the kata Shishi no Kon is the 5th of at least 8 bo katas my Sensei teaches. So I’d be curious of the list you have and the order they’re in. Next time I’m at the dojo I’ll take a picture of the list we use and shoot it your way.
I’m not familiar with “Ryukyu Kobudo” as a specific style of Kobudo, as I only know of Matayoshi and Taira style. But my Sensei has noted on many occasions there are variations of nearly all the katas, especially Tokumine no kon. Shoot me a message with any other questions you may have.
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u/AlexM529 Jun 05 '26
Hi, I would be happy to see that picture. As for the kata list, I was talking about the 5 main kata that are taught (shushi, choun, Sakugawa, tsuken, and shishi). I do know that there are more that are taught in Matayoshi Kobudo. As for the Ryukyu Kobudo term, it is the name of the taira style of Kobudo. And yes, I do agree that there are many variations of the different kata, I’m trying to identify which one shishi no kon is equivalent to in Ryukyu Kobudo (taira style)
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u/luke_fowl Matayoshi Kobudo & Shito-ryu Jun 07 '26
I'm going to jump in just to say that the 5 official bo kata of Matayoshi Kobudo as formalized in Matayoshi Shinpo's curriculum and continued to be taught by both the Kodokan and Gakiya Yoshiaki are, in order: Shushi no Kon, Choun no Kon, Sakugawa no Kon, Chikin/Tsuken no Kon, and Shishi/Soeishi no Kon. That being said, both he and Matayoshi Shinko taught more than those 5 including, but not limited to, Kubo no Kon, Yonegawa no Kon, and Tokumine no Kon. So some of the masters, especially the ones from non-Shinpo lineages, have more than the core 5 in their curriculum. Ufutun Bo, on the other hand, was learned by Maeshiro Shusei from an outside source which he then matayoshized into the one we see today in his lineage. Some lineages will also have 1-2 bo kihon kata before Shushi no Kon to make it easier for beginners.
If I remember correctly, although please correct me if I'm wrong, Shimabukuro Tsuneo is a student of Maeshiro Shusei. If so, I think he would have preserved some of the older kata that I have mentioned above. Would be very interested to hear what exactly his curriculum is like.
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u/Darth_Uno Jun 08 '26
You are correct. Shimabukuro Sensei has maintained the core five in the order you list, followed by Ufutunbo and then 3 others. Not sure how or why but I can’t figure out how to add a photo to this post.
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u/metnmoo Jun 05 '26
In Taira lineage kobudo the last kata would probably be Soeishi. Not sure how equivalent it is to the Matyoshi Shishi no kon technique wise though.
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u/AlexM529 Jun 05 '26
I thought the last kata in taira style Kobudo was chatan yara no kon?
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u/darkknight109 Jun 06 '26
It really depends on the school. I practice Ryukyu Kobudo, and the last kata in our syllabus is Chinen Shikiyanaka no Kun. Soeishi no Kun is second to last.
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u/luke_fowl Matayoshi Kobudo & Shito-ryu Jun 07 '26
As far as I am aware, and I have made a pretty deep dive into this, is that there is no equivalent kata for our Shishi no kon. In fact, Soeishi-ryu didn't even have a Soeishi/Shishi no Kon! It was said that Soeishi Ryoko only taught 2 kata: Shushi no Kon and Choshi/Choun no Kon (no relation to our or Yamane's kata of the same name). It is quite established that Matayoshi Shinko learned from Soeishi Ryoko one way or another, even if it's unclear how in depth his training was under Soeishi. My personal theory, although I lack evidence here, is that Soeishi's Shushi no Kon and Choshi no Kon are preserved in Ryukyu Kobudo's Shushi no Kon dai and Choun no Kon due to the similarities in techniques and meta. Our Shushi no Kon is obviously the same as Ryukyu's Shushi no Kon dai.
The funny thing is that both Matayoshi and Taira have a Soeishi no Kon, both of which looks nothing like each other's. I'm not quite sure what the history of this kata is in Ryukyu Kobudo, but Matayoshi lore has always affirmed that it was learned from Soeishi Ryoko. As such, my theory, based on eliminating all other possibilities, is that this was a kata that Shinko made based on what he learned from Soeishi. It's not a direct kata taught by Soeishi, but rather a synthesis of his style as according to Matayoshi Shinko.
TL;DR: Ryukyu Kobudo has no equivalent of Matayoshi Kobudo's Shishi no Kon.
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u/precinctomega Jun 04 '26
Every Okinawan style has at least one Shushi no kon, and every one is completely different.