r/karate • u/CalligrapherGreat653 • Jan 13 '26
Question/advice Yellow belt in karate, friend mocks it—how do I respond?
Hi everyone,
I’ve been training wado ryu karate for about six months now and recently earned my yellow belt. I really enjoy it and feel like I’m learning a lot, especially in terms of discipline, technique, and understanding the art itself. We train about three times a week in total, and one of those sessions each week is a bit different: we focus on jiujitsu, grappling, and sparring that’s more like kickboxing than traditional karate kumite. Those sessions are really intense and hands-on.
Here’s the situation: I have a friend who started MMA around the same time I started karate. He’s really into jiujitsu, grappling, and kickboxing, and his training is very physical and competitive.
Whenever we talk about martial arts, he likes to poke fun at karate. He says things like karate “never works in a street fight” or that it’s “just flashy stances and old-fashioned moves.” I get where he’s coming from, especially since MMA is very focused on practical, fight-oriented techniques, but I genuinely believe karate has value beyond what he’s giving it credit for.
The problem is, I don’t really know how to defend karate when he makes these comments. I know it’s a traditional martial art and emphasizes things like precision, timing, speed, and discipline—all of which feel useful—but I sometimes feel like I can’t explain it well enough in a way someone who trains MMA would respect.
I’d love to hear from others here: how do you respond when someone dismisses karate as ineffective? How do you explain the benefits of karate—both practical and philosophical—especially when the comparison is to MMA, jiujitsu, and other modern fighting styles?
Thanks in advance for any advice!
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u/BecauseIAmEm Jan 13 '26
I’m a second dan black belt in Shotokan karate and I’ve been competing/training for about 15 years.
Congratulations on getting into martial arts and sounding so good and dedicated. You’re what’s right with wanting to train.
As for your friends, every different martial art is different. Your “fancy stances” build muscle in your arms and legs, meaning you can take more hits if it came to sparring.
But the No 1 rule when I teach and when I’m being thought, your goal is to never start a fight nor fight when you’re stuck in one, your goal is to get away and run. So in the real world, you’re not going to fight, you’re going to wanna get away and your training will do that.
Stick at your martial art, train hard and stay dedicated. It’s all good for your mental and physical health. Osu.
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u/The_falumpaset Jan 13 '26
In the real world a fight is bad for all of us. Adults don't need to fight, and if we can competently defend enough to run off and stay healthy and uninjured then great. I have always said that if I get into a true fight, then there are two of us about to go to the hospital. I will punch and kick and bite and scratch to protect myself.
I don't think that the majority train so that they can go out looking to fight. To me that seems like a weird minority of adults that brag about it.
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u/BecauseIAmEm Jan 13 '26
Karate will teach you discipline, hard work and it’s good for your overall physical and mental health.
When it comes to real would fights I completely agree with you, any training you’ll have from any martial arts regardless will go out the proverbial window and you’ll rely on instinct to get away as quickly as possible.
Those who brag about doing karate or martial arts in order to get into a fight or hurt people are doing it for the wrong reasons and they’re not what karate is all about.
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Jan 13 '26 edited Jan 13 '26
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u/blindside1 Kenpo, Kali, and coming back to Goju. Jan 14 '26
This is a good point, and one that is often overlooked by karate schools as well. Most karate schools prioritize the next kata over verbal de-escalation skills and building situational awareness in real world settings.
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u/ACP-red Jan 17 '26
I'm a BJJ guy and I love it. Definitely some real world application, but I hope I never use it. All of the arts are great. Good tools, discipline, fitness. But they're tools unless you're making it career. Truth is all of it is useless against the wrong armed person lol. If you like karate, stick with it. If it's Judo, stick with it. They're all great 👍🏻
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u/SyzygyEnthusiast Jan 13 '26
If your "friend" is seriously mocking you over something you enjoy, maybe you need to reevaluate your friendship.
Also, MMA is the bro-iest thing ever and his behavior is just proving that point
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u/TwitchySphere53 Jan 13 '26
Unless you are willing to get in the ring and go all out then you will never know how you will preform under pressure.
Reality is most people who do any kind of martial art dont want to get injured and are are more interested in learning and practicing safely.
A kitchen knife is more deadly then any martial art. Get a gun if you want to defend yourself. We are all just big kids having fun doing something we think is cool. 99 percent of self defense is simply being aware of your surroundings and avoid the fight before it ever happens
Dont let him get to you, no need to engage have fun with your life and feel free to cut the people out of your life who make you feel bad about yourself or what you do
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u/AnonymousHermitCrab Jan 13 '26
Not really the answer you're looking for I'm sure, but my answer is that I don't.
Most people who have that mindset don't seem particularly interested in changing their minds. If they were then they'd do research about it or try it out rather than just parroting what their MMA coach said to them.
And honestly, I'm not interested in talking with (let alone being friends with) someone who is going to mock the things I enjoy. If they're going to be like that, who cares what they think.
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u/sidblues101 Jan 13 '26
Completely agree with this statement and would add to stop caring what others think or say. If somebody were to say to me MMA it is a better fighting style or something similar, I won't even argue. I'll say good for you leave it at that. I'm not doing Karate to be a better fighter. I do because I enjoy it.
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u/FeSO4 Jan 13 '26
Like several other people here, I say "don't". Don't waste your time trying to defend against his opinion. I'd just say "cool" or even "yeah, you're probably right" to end the line of conversation.
Don't let someone else being childish take away your enjoyment in any art you enjoy. I'm assuming neither you nor your friend is in elementary school any more, so "my dad can beat up your dad" and "my martial art is better than yours" is a silly waste of time.
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u/TrashbatLondon Jan 13 '26
“I don’t care”
“I enjoy the training I do”
Honestly there are loads of arguments, but remember that the principle of self defence is to avoid a fight rather than win it. The same applies to discussions that are of no value to you. You’re not going to stop training because your friend thinks what he does is better. He’s not going to accept any argument you make. There’s just no value in it.
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u/Arokthis Shorin Ryu Matsumura Seito Jan 13 '26
Your "friend" is a jackass. It's time to drop him and find someone else to talk to.
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u/grypas15 Jan 13 '26
I think instead of trying to engage on that axis and defend Karate's merits, just flat out say, "hey man, I like Karate. It's fun, and I really enjoy it. It's frustrating/upsetting to me when you make fun of it." A real friend wouldn't want to upset you for real, so if they don't stop after that they're not a good friend.
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u/LegitimateHost5068 Supreme Ultra Grand master of Marsupial style Jan 13 '26
Karate has been proven to be effective in MMA and in self defense. There are numerous MMA champions that are Karateka and tons of vids online showing karate being used successfully for self defense. Any serious martial artist, even the mma guys, know this and dont dog on karate. The people who make fun of karate are the ones that have never fought a serious karateka and know nothing about karate to begin with.
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u/Routine_Excuse6356 Goju Ryu Nidan Jan 13 '26
Just agree and change subject. Ie you just deescalated and moved on. Keep an eye out for more respectful friends.
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u/seaearls Kyokushin Jan 13 '26
Have you tried not caring? Don't underestimate the power of "sure man, whatever"
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u/DockBay42 Jan 13 '26
Your friend is being an asshole, probably without realizing it. Have a conversation with him that he is making you feel bad for no reason and that you would like him to change his behavior.
You do not have to defend Karate or explain it to him. This situation isn’t about martial arts. You could be into mini golf for all it matters. If he belittled you for it, that would be an issue.
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u/whatisscoobydone Jan 13 '26
"The karate that I practice is more effective than the MMA that I don't practice"
"2003 called and it wants its traditional martial arts versus MMA argument back"
Idk. Consider that a friend is more likely to be respectful of something you enjoy than mock it. Mocking tends to be something that people who are not your friends do.
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Jan 13 '26
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u/Sigilbreaker26 Shidokan (士道館) Jan 13 '26
Not all fights may end up on the ground but a hell of a lot of them end up in a clinch where MMA is probably the most useful martial art on the planet after Judo.
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u/_pastry Jan 13 '26
I think the first thing and most important thing to learn is not to allow others insecurity to diminish the things you enjoy.
There’s a big difference between a fight with rules and what might happen in the street. That’s why in self defense we learn awareness, diffusion, being the bigger person, but also when it might be necessary to strike and escape. Beyond that first interaction you are looking at trouble, karate or MMA or whatever style.
So my short answer is.. it’s an immature argument - street fighting is for fools. Walk away, ignore, keep training for the great reasons you already recognise and be proud of it.
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u/OrlandoLasso Jan 13 '26
You just have to accept Karate for what it is. Most mma guys or kick boxers will beat a Karate guy with equal training because they're sparring every class and doing pad work. A lot of dojos spend too much time on kata and ippon kumite and almost no time on sparring. You can be equally as good as a kick boxer if you go to a dojo to spars often.
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u/Constant_Opening6239 Jan 14 '26
In our karate class, we spar every class and do tons of pad work.
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u/OrlandoLasso Jan 14 '26
You're super lucky. There's no sparring at our club oe pad work. It's just kata up to Bassai Dai and Tekki Shodan.
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u/Constant_Opening6239 Jan 14 '26
Oh wow... that sounds rather boring.
Our class structure is this:
~Warm-ups
~Basics (strikes on pads or each other, kicks)
~Kata
~Self-defense
~Sparring
~Weapons (after class for advanced students)
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u/ConfidentBird8173 Shotokan Jan 13 '26
Idk I'd just be rude like "hey man, I don't make fun of the arts you train. Don't make fun of mine or we won't be talking anymore." 🤷🏼♀️ That's just my style tho because I feel like you shouldn't have to defend your interests and hobbies to a "friend".
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u/Sigilbreaker26 Shidokan (士道館) Jan 13 '26
If you're enjoying it there's plenty of reasons to stick with traditional karate - it's lower impact, it does teach you skills like co-ordination and depending on how seriously they take calisthenics the conditioning can be very good too. Not everything is about pure combat effectiveness. It's much easier to pick up injuries in MMA and people do have a real life outside of martial arts.
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Jan 14 '26
I train jiujitsu and think it is awesome that you earned your yellow belt. Wado Ryu is a cool style. It also has Japanese Jujitsu in it. Congrats!
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u/HotAnorak Shotokan Jan 14 '26
I'm just not friends with people who repeatedly mock the things I enjoy. That sounds really tiring.
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u/Meatzombie Jan 13 '26
Respond "I enjoy what I do, you dont have to" If he doesnt get the message "I dont appreciate you mocking something I enjoy" And if it keeps going, its gone beyond playful ribbing, dude is just a dick
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u/aburena2 Kobayashi Shorin Ryu Jan 13 '26
Don’t need to defend. Just ignore, don’t talk martial arts or change the subject. Not with your it.
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u/thedeepestofstates Jan 13 '26 edited Jan 13 '26
His assumption that karate is “just flashy stances and old-fashioned moves” is simply incorrect, though to be fair to him, there's a lot of bad karate schools out there and many do teach completely impractical garbage, so it's understandable why he might have that impression. I'm currently a brown belt and every single movement in every kata I've learned has practical application. At the yellow belt level there's a good chance you're only receiving introductory material and limited application, but in my opinion a good school should be teaching the application of the moves of all the kata concurrently.
MMA is a strong style and is fine for street fights, but it's fundamentally still a sport. And as such, there are certain moves you aren't allowed to do, so if you're in a life or death situation and all you've trained in is MMA, it won't occur to your muscle memory that the fastest way to incapacitate an opponent is to gouge his eyes out, knee him in the jimmies, or crush his throat. Not that such things should be your go-to response, but Karate is a much more modular system wherein the same body movements that can be used for simple blocks, kicks, and punches, can just as easily be used to apply varying levels of force appropriate to the situation.
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u/Sigilbreaker26 Shidokan (士道館) Jan 13 '26
The average MMA guy has gouged the exact same number of eyes, kneed the same number of groins, crushed the same amount of throats as the average karateka - 0 (barring accidentally doing any of those things). You cannot rely on moves you've never trained live (in sparring) in a self-defence situation.
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Jan 13 '26
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u/Sigilbreaker26 Shidokan (士道館) Jan 13 '26
The difference is that MMA won't claim to teach you these things.
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Jan 14 '26
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u/Sigilbreaker26 Shidokan (士道館) Jan 14 '26
I mean if you crack open the Bubishi it also claims to tell you what phase of the moon is best for applying the death touch to someone, don't take claims of past karate experts being unstoppable forces of nature at face value.
When Kano developed Kodokan Judo he specifically took out everything from classical jujutsu that couldn't be trained safely and then his guys went around demolishing almost every jujutsu school in the country. Live training of safe techniques is superior to theoretical discussion of unsafe ones.
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u/Routine_Tax_6883 Jan 13 '26
Being a yellow belt is nothing to be ashamed of. It means you have taken one more step into the world of the martial arts. As for MMA: it's nothing more than bread and circuses.
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u/Andantee23 Jan 13 '26
Sounds like he is coming from a place of ignorance. Karate is a fighting art at its core in addition to the art component, character and self esteem development or even the meditative aspect. He should take a class before he passes judgement. Plenty of fighters have a karate background or cross train with other styles to make themselves a more complete fighter. Some MMA folks think it is the end all, be all but they have to understand that MMA has it’s limitations in real life self defense as well. MMA has rules including stuff like no groin strikes or weapons. They also get to study their opponent before a match which is a big advantage. Makes sense of course because MMA is a sport. Nothing wrong with having rules. It makes sense. But the street has no rules. Your opponent may have a weapon or cheat or kick you in the balls. The biggest unknown is you have no idea about their background. One of many things karate (or the multitude of other styles you could choose) should teach you is to avoid the fight at all costs but if you have no choice be prepared for everything.
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u/supersmola Jan 13 '26
Tell him this: "I really enjoy it and feel like I’m learning a lot, especially in terms of discipline, technique, and understanding the art itself."
There is no point in defending karate, or anything. You two are on different journeys.
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u/99thLuftballon Jan 13 '26
Just say "It works for me" and end the conversation there. If karate is giving you what you need from it, then there's nothing further to say. It's not his hobby, it's yours.
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u/srje117 Jan 13 '26
The best thing you can do is...nothing. where I practiced karate there was this story named the wooden roster (look for it, it's pretty interesting). What this story tries to say is that you have to become a wooden roster, a roster that cannot be annoyed. If your friend is mocking you/it just listen and do not say anything, that is going to be your karate talking.
I've been there, I've explained a bunch of logical things, but people don't want to change their minds, so instead of wasting your energy just practice your inner karate
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u/karainflex Shotokan Jan 13 '26
Buy him the Little Black Book of Violence by Wilder and Meditations on Violence by Miller and never hear him talking these things ever again. (Also, read the books yourself)
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u/cfwang1337 Tang Soo Do Jan 13 '26
There's no real reason to engage when he says those things. People who are honest about what they want from their practice will tell you that they're getting different things out of karate and other traditional martial arts than what they'd get out of MMA and other combat sports.
It's about as silly as someone who plays soccer making fun of someone who plays tennis or something.
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u/Spirited_Opposite_45 Jan 13 '26
MMA still trains with rules. I guess you should let your friend know that he should respect your choice.
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u/QBall1442 Jan 13 '26
What does he do? I haven't done martial arts in probably 15 years and I've never really stuck to one long enough to make long climbs. I made it to the 3rd chord I think in my Capoeira group back then? Before that, I did a couple of years at an MMA school through high school. I could scrap sure, but guess what? Never cared about it, just wanted to be healthier and enjoyed the guys I rolled/sparred with. Who gives a shit about a street fight? Keep on the grind to higher a better and healthier lifestyle.
Are you happy? I bet he isn't or else he wouldn't be dogging on you, sounds like he just needs to demean somebody to make himself feel better (confidence issue).
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u/Able_Following4818 Jan 13 '26
He's not a friend. Friends don't crap on friends' passions even if they may not understand them. Keep training and don't discuss martial arts with this person. Train, compete, and make new friends.
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u/gomidake Shito Ryu 4th Dan Jan 13 '26
You don't have to defend karate from anyone. Even if you wanted to, you simply don't have the experience yet. Continue to do what you enjoy, and reconsider your friendship with the guy that talks shit about your hobbies
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u/FistofaMartyr Kanzen Budo Kai Jan 13 '26
Once you guys develop proper control and trust you should spar around. Do it regularly and you will both gain trust and respect
Make sure you dont hurt each other, sparring is just as much about taking care of each other as it is honing skill
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u/OldBroad1964 Jan 14 '26
Honestly he’s being immature. I enjoy karate for my own reasons and I do not need to prove or get approval from anyone. If I had a friend like this I’d ask him why he feels so insecure about his sport.
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u/sleepypup0982 Jan 14 '26
"Hey bud i'm glad you found something that you enjoy and improves your life. I did too. What'cha wanna get for dinner?"
Just factual and supportive of his choices and sharing you have the same just with a different tool.
Rarely are you going to have a fruitful conversation dissecting anything to someone that starts with openly mocking it.
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u/sabretoothian Shotokan 3rd Kyu Restarted: Currently 7th Kyu 🔴 Jan 14 '26
I love that movie - The MMA Kid. Oh wait...
I'm just being facetious. It seems like this guy is proud of his achievements and feels you may be stepping on his territory.
Insecurity I feel. Pay no heed, and you do you :)
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u/ProfessorMex74 Jan 14 '26
I've done TKD, Capoeira, Kenpo, a bit of Escrima, and Close Quarter stuff...I'm too old to fight now. I had a great time training and instructing in my younger and thinner days. Some of what I learned was practical and would still be useful... a lot of it worked if the other person uses the same art. For all I've learned and after teaching self-defense workshops, I came to the conclusion that any version of pepper spray used correctly pretty much ends a street fight. No real training is needed, you can get it on Amazon for $10-$20, fits in your pocket, and works against every system. I recommended it to all of my female students, but I still think belted traditional systems are worth it just for the fun of it. The more judo I see now, the more I wish I had done at least 2 or 3 ranks. Have fun. I played basketball, soccer, and baseball as a kid. Never once had the illusion I was going to be a pro. It's to do things for the pure enjoyment. Congratulations on your yellow belt!
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u/Disastrous-Ad5722 Jan 14 '26
If you studied tea ceremony, guys like that would say you couldn't make a cuppa like his grandma.
If you did kyudo, they'd say you were no match for a firearm.
Ignore him.
Treat his endeavors with his art with respect and then concentrate on your own. Don't lose sleep over small minded comments.
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Jan 14 '26
Anyone mocking you for training what makes you happy needs to evaluate their own choices because content people set about the work that makes them happy without denigrating what makes others happy. Karate is cool. Punching or kicking people works. When I was waiting for a kidney transplant, I was too physically weak to train Judo or BJJ. I trained karate with my friends and it helped to toughen me up physically. Keep going!
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u/hoangdl Jan 14 '26
You don't have to defend anything to anyone over your choice of martial art. Are you training for yourself or for their approval?
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u/Nervous_Link_8360 Jan 15 '26
What you should ask is why this is bothering you. Maybe you are doubting your choice ? Your friend is probably right : MMA is a medley of the best techniques to win a fight. So it is probably the most efficient martial art.
Wait... It is NOT a martial art but a mix of them. So even if it is efficient it also lacks of history and tradition.
That is why I answer people having this kind of discussion : I'm happy for them if they like their martial art. But I'm not looking for perfect efficiency because I'm not gonna do MMA fights, nor fight in the street. I want to work my mind (Shin), my techniques (Gi) and my body (Taï).
The key to winning these arguments is consistency : continue your training for yourself, not for the others. Maybe in a couple of months or years, your friend is gonna quit MMA because he will be injured, or won't take pleasure in real full contact fights... But you, you'll still be on your way (Do) to be better each day.
Shin-Gi-Taï-Do should be the main way of every Budoka.
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u/Salt_Bet5773 Jan 17 '26
As long as you enjoy it and get something out of it that's all that matters. To each their own.Let him say what he wants. Your probably not going to change his mind.Every art his its strengths and weaknesses. Congrats on the yellow belt. The first belt is a great feeling.
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u/phillyyoggagirl Jan 17 '26
I know Aikido (5 years), Kung-Fu (2 years), and Kali (<1 year). I would say that your friend shouldn't judge you because he doesn't know your martial arts journey. You are on a path that feels right to you. He is on another path that feels right to him. Last week, a random stranger assaulted me and I ducked his punch. My friends and acquaintances I spoke to (martial arts instructors included) said that most people would've froze and would've been knocked out cold. My 7+ years of training prepared me for that one split second moment in which I was able to move off the line and duck, otherwise I would've ended up in the hospital. If this same assault happened to you and your friend, my money would be on you to survive it. Those "flashy moves" have a lot of value embedded in them that most people can't see.
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u/praetorian1111 wado ryu karate jutsu Jan 13 '26
I usually just agree with it. MMA guys have a bigger change to win in a street fight because most karate styles don’t incorporate groundwork. Wado sometimes does but usually after a couple of years. And considering you said JJ training days you can mention that. He probably doesn’t know that
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Jan 13 '26
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u/praetorian1111 wado ryu karate jutsu Jan 13 '26
Considering my job, many times. So yeah I do know what I’m talking about. It’s maybe dangerous going to the ground but if you get grabbed, ( and you will get grabbed if you don’t know how to react) you can end up on the ground without you willing it. So be prepared for it, cause it can happen. And most karate styles don’t incorporate what you do when that happens. So an mma guy who trains it all on a regular basis, has a bigger change of winning. You dont have to agree, I didn’t ask for that.
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u/Binnie_B Uechi Ryu 6th dan Jan 13 '26
Who cares what he thinks? Poke fun with him!!! It is pretty funny. I am a 6th dan in Uechi-Ryu. I also train Judo, BJJ, boxing and have done MMA and gone to some MMA gyms. I have done martial arts for 30 years now... forms and karate is hilarious sometimes. Also, many are not good for self defense, and there is nothing wrong with that!
There are tons of ways to exercise or learn that isn't strictly for self defense. For instance, if you get injured or just grow old, you can still do forms and stay in shape... you can't do hard kickboxing at 65. But there is a reason your dojo does other styles and fighting... it's good for you, and it's good training.
You don't need to defend Karate. Either your schools teachings work and you are fine, or they don't. I find that the people that need to jump to a defense the most, are the most insecure with that they are defending. The same goes for those that are attacking others, they are usually the most insecure.
Some of the best MMA fighters came from a karate background. I can guarantee you they don't feel the need to defend karate.
So TLDR... you don't need to defend karate. If you are enjoying your dojo great! If all you care about is self defense... spar more often. But have fun and be happy with what you do with your time!
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u/petevandyke Jan 13 '26
I’ve seen BJJ guys take a one on one fight to the ground and then get the snot beat out of them when the other guy’s buddies joined. Saying BJJ is the only way in a street fight might not be the holy truth some people claim.
You’re likely getting things out of your training that he isn’t just because it’s a traditional art. Let him talk, for you, just train
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u/Global_Barracuda_457 Jan 13 '26
How do you respond? Who cares what they think? Are you enjoying it? The. That’s all that matters. Just remember what a dickhead they are and move along.
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u/Shotokan-GojuGuy Shotokan & Goju-Ryu Jan 13 '26
“we focus on jiujitsu, grappling, and sparring that’s more like kickboxing than traditional karate kumite. Those sessions are really intense and hands-on.”
“He’s really into jiujitsu, grappling, and kickboxing”
Sounds like you’re pretty much doing the same thing.
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u/AlanJacksonscoochi Jan 13 '26
Hypothetically and in no way the that violates reddit rules
Kick him in the dick and then ask him “whatre you gonna do - wait 5 minutes and deduct a point”
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u/MaryBeeCD Jan 13 '26
When you get older and start doing new things that are different from the rest is normal to get people point at you just because of choosing something different. When you get older you start to choose your friends better. You start realizing who is who and start keeping only those who really love your company and spending time with you.
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u/YopGlo Jan 13 '26
At least our training doesn't give us brain damage and teaches us the basic philosophies of combat and self defense. 🤷♂️
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Jan 13 '26
Lyoto Machida and Stephen Thompson are two renowned UFC fighters whose karate backgrounds were instrumental in their success. Your friend doesn't know what l he's talking about. I haven't trained Karate since I was little because the family couldn't afford to keep me in the classes, but since then I've found myself in Silat, JKD, Kali, Hapkido, BJJ, and a little TKD. all those arts have persisted for generations because they work. Otherwise we'd all move on to the things that do work. Your friend sounds like he needs to broaden his horizons before he pigeon holes himself into being a mediocre martial artist, and try being nicer to you.
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u/trmose Jan 13 '26
MMA is a sport.
True that alot of karate schools don't prepare you to get smacked in the mouth and keep fighting. True that somebody good at MMA is practiced at doing violence, but they may end up losing to someone willing to break the rules. Groin, knees, eyes, and throat strikes can end a fight just as fast as ground and pound or a good arm bar.
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u/sonarc_ Kenpo Jan 13 '26
MMA fighters like to say their stuff works in a real fight, but there is so much that is not allowed (for good reason) that you would use in a real fight, like strikes to the throat, eyes, groin, spine, knees, joint locks and breaks, etc. while we can’t practice these things at full speed or force with our fellow karatekas, we learn these techniques and hopefully never have to use them. Better to not fight. Even if you win, you’ll probably still get hurt.
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u/d-doggles Jan 13 '26
You’re gonna hear that all the time. Especially from guys over on that side of things (that’s no disrespect to MMA guys). I find it best to just not engage in that with those people. But if he keeps on being a dummy about it. Just ask him how many years of wado-ryu he has under his belt to make him so qualified to judge or even know anything at all about the effectiveness of your style. Remind him that unless he’s trained extensively in karate he has no idea what he’s even talking about. He’s just repeating what he hears at his fancy pants little MMA gym. Plus there’s literally thousands of different styles, dojos, teachers, students. Karate although an umbrella term is vastly different in the different to styles. It’d be impossible for him to know every single style well enough to determine if all karate’s ineffective in a fight. Just tell him that just because HE doesn’t know how to make it effective doesn’t mean it isn’t.
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u/cazwik Isshin-Ryu / RyuKonKai Jan 13 '26
Karate conditions the body over a lifetime. It can be practiced from 6 to 86+. You can train like a monster throughout your younger years and modify in your later years. Your training for a situation that you pray never happens against someone looking for a victim - not a cage fighter.
MMA is great. Its a great workout, and im not sure of the answer, but can it also be trained in the later years of life? Maybe, but I dont see many older folks training like I do in traditional arts.
And ill say this from experience. I've been training Karate along with other stuff here and there since I was 9. So for me , doing it for about 30 years I forget some folks never worked those muscles we use in our art. So those thst come in at their 30s and 40s are usually either are gym rats , or may of done something - they almost always say their "xyz" muscles never felt like this or their legs were sore from so much stance drills. If you conditioning throughly your already in better shape than most the population.
All arts are good. They serve a purpose. Invite your friend to a class. Go to his. If he is going to have a opinion isnt or fair to try it first? Otherwise hes just talking about something he knows nothing about. Make your training results your argument.
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u/Specific_Macaron_350 Shodan Shūkōkai Jan 13 '26
Been there. The amount of times I've had people bang on about karate being this and that to them just falls on deaf ears.
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u/BuisteirForaoisi0531 Jan 13 '26
People who say that fighting style doesn’t work in a street fight have usually never been in a real street fight anyway alert him that perhaps his grappling would work if it weren’t for the fact that in a street fight someone’s probably going to just shank him
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u/joshingaround77 3rd dan Tang Soo Do Jan 13 '26
I've trained for over a decade, competed internationally, and got my sabomnim (master rank). I still get this shit. My response is always simultaneously practical and funny. They get out their jokes and I respond, fully serious like I am dropping gold knowledge. I go "all this experience and I will start any fight with one move- the same every time." And most people will be hooked, asking for what the move is. I look them in the eyes, deadpan and deadly serious. "Front kick to the balls. And if that doesn't work? Thrust kick to the inner knee."
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u/PK84 JKA Shotokan Jan 13 '26
Hi - black belt in shotokan here... also have 10 years experience of Muay Thai, Kickboxing, Judo and a few years of BJJ. Your friend is an ass. A real martial artist understands and respects all martial arts. Karate does work in a street fight, better than boxing or BJJ... no but it will help you. You do the martial art you love and if you want to move on go for it. You will have an advantage in Kickboxing with Karate experience if you ever move that direction. Good luck and most importantly, enjoy yourself! Osu!
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u/shotokanman70 Jan 13 '26
It sounds like you’re in a good dojo. If you were spending your time punching air and doing step sparring then your friend’s comment is valid. If you enjoy the classes and are sparring at yellow belt level then keep it up! Ask your friend to show you what he thinks karate is then show him some things you’re learning.
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u/Bors_Mistral Shoto Kobudo Jan 13 '26
You don't need to respond. You are doing your thing and you are enjoining it. Also, the only thing that 100% works in a street fight is not getting into a street fight.
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u/Basic-Recording Jan 13 '26
Osu, I know the pain of having to explain karate to others. I have a shodan in a traditional Okinawa style of karate, similar to Kyokushin, but have also trained in a variety of martial arts for over 20 years. Now my girlfriend is all about Mauy Thai the last 4-5 years and always sort of talks down about karate. I just grin and bear it. Is it frustrating, of course it is, but I know my kicks hit waaaay harder! I can appreciate the pros and cons of all styles, but this takes time for people to realise not every martial art is perfect for everything and that is the point of MMA. Look at Machita or GSP, both have a foundation in karate and are very well regarded in the sport, one being, in my opinion one of the GOATS, so there is that argument. And it sounds as if you are doing a "real" for of karate which includes grappling and throws, something a lot of the Americanised styles have lost, which is why so many people clown on karate because so much has been watered down or made into some dancing showtime spectacle.
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u/Darth-Lad Jan 13 '26
He’s not entirely wrong in that SOME schools that teach karate don’t teach it in a way that’ll be immediately applicable for you in a real scenario, but this isn’t true for every school. If it really bothers you just ask him to glove up, put some head gear on, and have a friendly spar or two to exchange insight. You get a chance to apply your karate to gain experience and you can show him the merits of karate. Karate is fairly common in MMA.
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u/hwanger2112 Jan 13 '26
lyoto machida, gsp, Stephen thompson. many peoole have found success with karate...
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u/CustomerAggressive35 Jan 13 '26
To me it's a pretty relative conversation; people don't have to always love what you love or like what you like. if he doesn't respect what you're doing and keeps teasing you I wouldn't even bring it up anymore with him. it's your journey and if you enjoy it keep enjoying it and don't let someone else's negative you bother you too much. You have nothing to prove to him.
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u/swisx Jan 13 '26
Read the books from funakoshi and you don't need to respond. Focus on yourself, those feom your friend are just words.
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u/PoopSmith87 Jan 14 '26
Pointing out the number of good professional mma fighters that have karate roots ought to put a nail in it.
George St Pierre, Lyoto Machida, Chuck Liddel, Whittaker Wonderboy Thompson, Bas Rutten, Kyoji Horiguchi, Frank Mir... there are more.
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u/CrimsonCaspian2219 Jan 14 '26
I've sparred with Traditional and I've sparred with more combat sport oriented.
Dude, a fight is terrifying. A legit fight is chaotic and gets stupid.
If he's talking like that, he either has never been in a legit fight or hasn't been in one that cost anything. I'd rather the fight than the following ramifications.
Very rarely does a person win a fight/jumping.
In regards to your friend? You got a lot of casuals and witness me types that feel the need to be witnessed. He did MMA for 6 months. He isn't MVP. You enioy it? Say it. It's a full sentence. You aren't in court. You don't have to convince him of a damn thing. And he must be green because you have no shortage of Karate-ka who took it full contact and even entered the MMA meta. Kickboxing is filled with Full contact Karate-ka.
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u/ZacStover1230 Jan 14 '26
I don't train karate. I'm justa lurker. I trained a long time ago for a short time. The key take away in traditional martial arts is exactly the problem your friend is expressing. He is only focused on the fighting. Sure, in the same time period, your friend probably will get better at fighting. But he isn't going to learn the diciple. He isn't going to learn how to be a better person. There's so much more to a traditional art than just learning how to fight. And people that don't see that are honestly scary people that shouldn't be learning how to fight. I'm seeing people saying "NOT EVERYONE IS LIKE THAT HUR HUR" yeah no kidding, but if you look at nontraditional vs traditional martial artists, you can see a very clear distiction in mind set. There assholes all over the world, but wothout the actual philosophy thats also taught, and the responsibility that comes with knowing how to hurt people, its just training a barbarian. So to answer your question: don't. He's intentionally trying to piss you off. It's the shit talking before a fight. It's the prefight interview with the two fighters insulting eachother. I have a muaythai and judo background and I can't stand fight build up, muscle head shit talking. I'm kind of rambling at this point, but it's really interesting to see how the two cultures clash in this regard. Karate is journey focused and trying to improve, the MMA guy is jusy trying to pull others doen and show boat. Sorry to the decent people out there training in MMA, but the culture in it is just strange to me.
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u/KatanaMac3001 Jan 14 '26
Don't tell me - all fights end on ground so bjj is best. It's an absolute scam of a marketing tool. As for MMA, Ronda Rousey didn't take to being punched or kicked in the face.
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u/Initial_Concern8359 Jan 14 '26
Take that criticism and turn it into determination in becoming the best you can be you don't need to explain yourself to anyone you don't have anything to prove to anyone but yourself practice at home make a personal schedule for yourself in becoming the fastest the strongest the toughest version of yourself possible and over time you will out pace this naysayer and show him what you and your art are made of 💯😎
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u/Numerous-Error-5716 Jan 14 '26
It’s not uncommon to find someone who wants to make fun of karate, or you. It’s happened to me also. I’ve heard it called “fake fighting” and many other similar jokes.
My advice is don’t try to justify karate within his frame of conversation. Just say, “I’m not focused on those kinds off results, I just enjoy it.” Or simply “I like it!” What’s he going to say - “you shouldn’t like it”? Nowadays, I’m 62M, starting a new style after many years away. When people ask me why I practice karate, I say “well it gets me off the couch.”
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u/CoreyGreenBooks Jan 14 '26
People make fun of things they don't understand. People also make of people that improving themselves. I would say ignore the noise and double down and train hard. As time progresses, you will outgrow that "friend." Real friends lift each other up not tear others down. Good luck on your journey.
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u/Manachi Jan 14 '26
It’s worth considering that 99.9999% of your life is going to be spent not in real physical fights, and in all that time, Karate (and most martial arts) are beneficial for body, mind, general wellbeing and good health. It’s is for improving health, not getting in real fights which is basically getting injuries (even if you “win”).
But if you want to be less serious, and just “give it back” to him, say something about jujitsu and getting on the ground rolling around on the floor with other men 😂
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u/maskedfapper69 Jan 14 '26
Just point out there’s been tons of UFC champs with karate backgrounds and that he can check on sherdog where they have a list of more than 200 karateka who are or were also professional MMA fighters, and kickboxing in Japan, America and Europe has its origins in karate with many leagues that have or had a K in their acronyms the K originally meant karate.
Or just ignore him.
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u/Optimal_Ad_3693 Jan 14 '26
Buddy I used to train at a mma gym who currently has two UFC fighters, well one of the coached is a Karate Black belt, comes in with his gi and everything he is one of the assistant cosched whi focuses on kicking, it is also well known here that DDP trained with another kyokushin guy in his preparation against his fight against Strickland.
Mockers will always mock.
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u/razorl4f Jan 14 '26
As a 1. Kyu former Wado practitioner who then transitioned to mostly MMA, I feel you, but also your friend. I remember thinking karate was the best martial art back in the day and subsequently getting kind of disillusioned when people who only did kata but could not fight at all got promoted beyond their abilities. I then discovered Japanese Jiujitsu, which had a strong emphasis on hard contact sparring and also grappling and cross trained for a while. Eventually I gave up on karate and started BJJ and MMA. I learned a lot there and became a much better fighter. But I also discovered what an incredible base my karate was. I am still a much better stand-up fighter than many guys at my gym and have terrific distance control and very deadly kicks. I think with good karate, you can definitely stand your ground against almost anyone in a stand-up altercation.
Will MMA get you fight ready quicker? Yes.
Will it cover more bases when it comes to 1 on 1 combat? Also yes.
But will it prevail in a street fight? This is dubious to me, because in a street fight you definitely do not want to end up on the ground and good distance control might be the key to extricate yourself from the fight.
And in the end it comes down to what you enjoy training more. If your dojo is legit, then Karate is a very legit fighting art.
Just tell your buddy that you don‘t plan on competing in MMA and like Karate.
And if you ever wanted to, you could cross train and become quite dangerous in an MMA context very quickly. There are numerous examples of former karate guys who compete at top level in MMA. No one serious doubts the legitimacy of the art.
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u/Ok_Dragonfly_7738 Jan 14 '26
he is touching a nerve because you don't quite know yourself why you're doing karate.
is it because you want to be able to fight in real life? then he's right, you should swap to mma, in which all your sessions will be like that one day a week of 'intense' sparring that you currently have, but better. he is going to get better at real fighting much much quicker doing mma because that's just what mma is, the stuff that works in a real fight.
or do you have other reasons for doing karate? if so, get them straight in your head so that both you and he can understand them. for example you might just enjoy looking cool doing katas. or maybe you don't want the cte risk from mma. you like the flexibility benefits. whatever. just make sure that fighting isn't the main one. mma wins that one every time.
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u/sportsandmartialarts Jan 14 '26
I'm a black belt in Karate... Just keep on training, try new techniques, keep going, learn new moves... I had a friend who was really good at Jiu Jitsu, one day he "defended himself" at a parking lot... that day he learned that rolling on the parking lot was not good at all, he got one under control until one gave him a kick on the face... he woke up at the ER...
As you learn more in Karate, try to complement your learning with other styles such as Taekwondo, Krav Maga, Kenpo, Judo.... you don't have to learn everything from their styles, just get the techniques that work for you only, that way you create your own technique catalog.
Please compete, this will help you grow as well, go to Kumite, forms, point sparring... compete, it will push you even more.
Don't worry about people making fun of your art, remember most dogs bark but never bite...
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u/appliednonsense Jan 14 '26
Karate is actually one of the best styles to counter wrestlers or grappling heavy MMA styles.
The in and out movement and spacing of karate forces grappling heavy styles to constantly adjust between striking and grappling.
If you need evidence look at George St Pierre fights or Michael venom page vs Sharabutdin Magomedov.
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u/Ok_Berry8953 Jan 14 '26
Always remember, karate as a sport is not intended to be self defense. And honestly neither are MMA. Rules apply. Training and focusing on any sport makes you more proficient in that ruleset. Obviously there will be carry over to self defense but if you think exchanging punches, kicks or grappling in a street fight you are not thinking straight. Apply what you can to defend yourself and get out. It's not a high school playground fight. It's inflicting as much damage as possible before getting away. There are winners in sports but never in a real street fight. There are aggressors, victims and those that are lucky enough to get away without serious injury. Do what you enjoy. Use what you've got. And don't worry about ego contests. Karate is effective. And that's my opinion after doing Muay Thai, kickboxing and boxing over many years.
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u/CS_70 Jan 14 '26
A friend who mocks is not really someone you want to be around.
That said, he's right, but not for the reasons you (or he) think he is, and he is also wrong, with the same qualification.
One: both you and him have very little practice time under the belt (metaphorical or not). At your stage, neither of you have much to say about anything. The mechanisms that make you (occasionally) "win in a street fight" are learned differently than in a dojo.
Two: the karate you practice is - even if far less than others - a chopped up and japanesized version of the original idea of karate. That karate is more practical than MMA because it's not a sport (and MMA these days is basically boxing with some kicking and takedowns and ground work), but it looks very different from almost any modern (or modern "traditional") karate you will see.
That karate is all about surviving closing distance and going to grappling as fast as possible: punches are only occasional and opportunistic, there's very little space for any kick other than a knee someplace soft (the "front kick") and your main goal is to break your opponent joints or throw him as quickly as possible, possibly in a way that he doesn't want to get up again.
Anything that happens at a distance where you cannot physically touch your opponent with both hands is not really "karate", but something that has been given the label at some point and it's stuck for historical and marketing reasons. Or made into a sport which is (was) fun and flashy too look at. The practical karate doesn't look that flashy (and neither does MMA actually, mostly) because escaping with your skin intact is not usually it
Tradition doesn't win you fights: its value lies elsewhere.
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u/Shadeylark Jan 14 '26
You don't need to defend karate when people say things like that, because in the end the only way to prove anything about what is best in a street fight is to get in a street fight and see... And nobody wants that.
Gonna wax a bit philosophical here... "If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke anytime."
If it can't be proven it's just an opinion, and in the end, the only opinion that matters is your own. Did you get your yellow belt because he'd approve of it, or did you get it for yourself?
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u/seanyp123 Go Ju Ryu Shodan Jan 14 '26
Three fold, firstly the notion you "need to defend karate" is untrue. Karate exists regardless of whether or not anyone thinks it is or is not a "worthy art". What they think about it doesn't matter. Secondly, they are good for different things... Mma is not designed for fights to the death like the street could result in. There are rules and you cannot do certain moves, there are points, rounds and refs. Karate is the study of life and you learn more than just how to fight (depending on your school you learn how to fight more or less)... My karate school was very focused on sparring and ground work. Third and for me most important... On top of being the "study of life" that karate is. Karate is a "tool" used to "perfect" the character of the student through the unity of mind body and spirit especially when taught by traditional Japanese teaching. Never forget that one way to win the fight is to also know better than to go down that dark alleyway and also not say that "thing" that would lead to a fight (mentally or physically). Ask him if he's ever heard of Georges St Pierre or Leo Machida!
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u/Dapper_Ostrich8548 Jan 14 '26
Aren’t there many past and present MMA and especially UFC fighters who were karateka? GSP, Jiri, Lyoto Machida… there are definitely others. I’d push back and point out karate’s success, as well as it being the basis for most non-Thai kickboxing.
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u/Nuke3d Yoshukai Jan 14 '26
My sensei acknowledges that Karate is not good once things hit the ground. He recommends some BJJ, Judo, or wrestling training to fill that void. Having said that, if your "friend" thinks its important to belittle something you clearly enjoy, I would just tell him straight out you are aware of the shortcomings, your teacher teaches you grappling techniques as well, and that in the future you'd rather talk about actual techniques for handling different scenarios rather than blasting karate as useless. If he's really concerned for your welfare in a fight, that's great, but poking fun doesn't help. At all.
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u/Dangerous-Disk5155 Jan 14 '26
boot to the head!!!
if you get the reference, congratulations you're old as fuck.
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u/CampDiva Test Jan 14 '26
You might explain that you train in karate because you enjoy it—the moves, the history, the respect, etc. AND, grown ass adults should be solving problems with words or by walking away and not getting in street or bar fights. Seriously!
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u/inyofaceboi Jan 14 '26
When someone dismisses Karate as effective I dismiss them as narrow minded and shortsighted.
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u/jaybobmb Jan 14 '26
In all reality, most of the things taught at average MMA gyms are going to be more practically effective than those taught at an average karate school. There is still some legit karate being taught, and it can be a very effective fighting style in the right setting. Sadly, a lot of karate taught nowadays is not what it used to be. That being said, I don't personally know what is taught at your school, and I don't know what your friend is learning at his MMA school (which could be terrible). I'm just talking about comparing averages. That being said, martial arts is not all about fighting. It is about discipline, self-confidence, health, and respect. A legitimate martial artist should respect that, no matter what the martial art is. In my experience, something happens to most people when they start training where they think they are the shit. 3 months into training, and they put MMA somewhere in the Instagram handle. It's comical. The thing your friend doesn't know yet and will only find out if he keeps training for years (most people do not) is that at 6 months in, he knows almost nothing. The little bit he knows will probably still be really helpful in an altercation with someone untrained, but in the world of fighters and practitioners, he is brand new to the sport. You are also brand new to your sport and are just starting your journey. If you like karate and your school, that is badass, and you should try your best to ignore the haters. If your friend is adamant about mocking you because he thinks his martial art is superior, then your friend sounds like a prick. You are doing your thing, and that is super cool. You're going to learn all kinds of physical, psychological, and emotional skills that you wouldn't get elsewhere. The only thing you need to say back to him is "I like karate."
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u/VoidLance Jan 14 '26
MMA fans are notorious for shit talking martial arts when they themselves have less than a baseline understanding of anything. And MMA is great for those people, they get to a competent level much quicker. But traditional martial arts is for people who have the dedication and understanding to be able to keep at it for longer, and those people will, in the long run, end up much more competent than the people who needed a quick grounding in MMA. People tend to forget, the people who do well in MMA competition are usually the ones who achieved competency in a traditional martial art and then started rounding it out with kickboxing or wrestling, not the other way around.
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u/Scsontos Jan 14 '26
Third degree black belt in Shotokan & now training boxing / kickboxing for several years: Your friend is right at the end of the day. Any singularly focused style is doomed to fail against a more well rounded MMA practitioner. That isn't to say that training a singular style is valueless, however it depends on what your end goals are. If you want to get into shape, or not take too much damage in sparring, then a more traditional style of karate is for you (not talking hardcore old school dojos). However if you want to train to be able to properly defend yourself, I'd suggest MMA/Boxing/Wrestling. There are several hybrid dojos out there as well. My very first one was traditional Shotokan + Brazilian Jujitsu + Kickboxing. One of the worst things I've seen from strictly Shotokan-only dojos is they don't know how to properly hit pads. Makiwara boards, for example, teach your striking to be more rigid and less fluid. That's why you never see them in boxing gyms. But again, depends on what YOUR goals are.
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u/Cryptomeria Jan 14 '26
I like vanilla ice cream and my friend likes brownies and he mocks me for liking vanilla ice cream. I point out that vanilla bean is very rare in the wild and the natural cooling effect of ice cream, but he responds that he can keep a brownie in his pocket.
Id love to hear how you guys would respond when people dismiss vanilla ice cream as inferior to brownies.
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u/TonalContrast Jan 15 '26
You can try to just not engage in the negative banter as you really have nothing to defend.
If you do engage you can say simply that it’s something you really enjoy doing, as I’m sure your friend really enjoys MMA.
Regarding what works in a street fight, that’s really a non issue as most normal and reasonable people are not looking to go out and get into street fights. You could say that your not looking for street fights and would avoid any kind of situation like that. Also, there’s no upside to getting into a street fight. Someone is going to get hurt, either you, or if your the one with training and you hit someone, they fall and smash their head on the pavement and ends up in a coma. Or you take them down hard to ground and same thing, some sort of injury. Now you’re being sued, and / or charged with criminal assault. So where's the upside?
Most martial arts will teach you respect, humility, and self preservation, whereas others are bit more along the lines of toxic masculinity.
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Jan 15 '26
Karate has existed for several centuries. If it didn’t have value, it would be gone by now. MMA fighters like Lyoto Machida and George Saint Pierre have their foundation as karate. Your friend just doesn’t understand the art component of a martial art, he thinks very linearly.
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Jan 15 '26
Just send him videos of GSP talking about or demonstrating karate. Since he's a GOAT of UFC/MMA your friend will probably respect his opinion on karate.
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u/Leevus_Alone Jan 15 '26
Lyoto Machida https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyoto_Machida
But, Any one who "mocks' a traditional martial art is only doing themselves a disfavor.
Any one who trains in any martial art, should not be discrediting another style.
I understand that you may be frustrated by your 'friend' questioning the legitimacy of your chosen style.
So, are you improving yourself as a person through your training?
Is your friend missing the point of becoming stronger as a person?
Others will say it more simply.
It's your friend that has the problem. Not you.
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u/Tirimaytimebren Jan 15 '26
Get used to it.. I’ve been practicing karate for over 50 years and during that time it was a regular thing from my friends and work colleagues (who, in the main, had never done a day of martial arts in their lives). If they’re ok people then it’s just simple “banter” (if that’s allowed these days) if they’re not, they’re not worth discussing it with. If your mate thinks what he’s doing will enable him to beat you up, he probably feels the need to justify his choice in the same way you’re concerned about yours. You’ve both only been practicing 6 months or so, you’re just settling in. As people have said, go along with the banter, but if you feel you can’t then shut it down. It’s no-one’s choice but yours as to what you want to practice. Just enjoy it - you don’t need to defend karate, it’s been around long enough.
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u/idontdoalot Jan 15 '26
TLDR: if you train mma and bjj with your karate you’ll only get better at karate and become a better martial artist. I train in seasons and change focus depending on goals and up coming competitions.
I am a karate black belt and a bjj purple belt. I started kickboxing two years ago as prep for an mma fight. I lost my first fight and had to unlearn a bunch of karate head movement and defense concepts and switch them to be much more boxing and Muay Thai oriented. Karate is a great art and is worth training. I will say my first mma sparring match was very eye opening to holes in its game and my first boxing match even more so. But if you accept karate has some holes and train to fix them then I don’t see an issue. Karate is not an end all art. Neither is BJJ. MMA is a competition rule set, not an art. My karate sensei has won multiple mma fights with training no other martial art. My style did not translate aswell unfortunately haha.
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u/Defiant-Way-5762 Jan 15 '26
Karate and similar fighting arts are the foundational birth of MMA. I digress. Just train and strive to improve.
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u/Muudii Jan 15 '26
let the ’friend go’ they know nothing of improving their self reaching their soul and potential
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u/kyoshero Wado(WIKF) Jan 15 '26
Karate isn’t magic, and MMA isn’t complete. They solve different problems. What matters is how you train, not the label. Every martial art claims to make you stronger. The ones worth staying in also make you quieter. Good luck.
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u/GloomyMasterpiece669 Jan 15 '26
You know… the funny thing about wado ryu, is its origins are not too distance from jiujitsu. If memory serves, its founder practiced in both?
Both avoid meeting force with force, and instead work on evasion, parry etc
The irony with your friend, is he’s ignoring the thing that makes MMA special.
Like, jiujitsu will have you grappling a lot. But won’t focus on striking. Wado ryu will cover striking, but less grappling.
If you’re into mma, then these are the perfect combo of styles, surely? As both share the same underlying principles.
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u/FantasticContact5301 Jan 15 '26
Point out the amount of MMA fighters with backgrounds in karate.
Point out that karate IS an MMA. It’s a mix of Chinese and local Okinawa styles that merged into their own thing over time. The only difference is that we have a clearer picture of when modern MMA started vs karate.
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u/linhuckshoto Jan 15 '26
I totally understand, I have heard it all over the years. I love karate and I have practiced mma, full contact karate, boxing, etc and they're all fantastic, but i have stayed with karate because it's what i enjoy. Now i'm older, it's traditional karate and especially kata, all the way for me. Osu!
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u/dteiml Jan 16 '26
The correct answer is Mma teaches you best just for fighting, karate gives you more skills outside of just fighting (discipline, humility etc).
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u/Mortegris Jan 16 '26
Ask him how many "street fights" he gets in on a daily basis. He'll probably shut up real quick.
That said, anyone who HAS been in a "street fight" knows that they usually last about 10 seconds (if even), and the statistical advantage is pretty evenly split between three values:
1) Who is bigger?
2) Who threw the first punch?
3) Who has ANY training?
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u/Xenadon Jan 16 '26
Just ignore him. The only reason he keeps bringing it up is because it gets a rise out of you.
No martial art works in a real fight unless you train and spar at a high level of intensity. It's not unique to any particular one.
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u/hogwldfltr Jan 16 '26
73 y/o black belt in Tang Soo Do with other high-level experience in Tae Kwon Do and Hap Ki do. Generally speaking, I avoid getting into fights and have for the many years I've been training (started at 16). This summer a street performer grabbed by hand and wouldn't let go. It was interesting to see training kick in and allow me to easily escape without escalating. As I was doing the escape the guy's hand followed mine just like practice in class. I thought to myself how effective my training is. Keep training and don't listen to people who are nay-sayers. From what I've seen, many MMA fighters have a karate/traditional martial arts background. An instructor I know teaches the police in Connecticut. The perspective they had is that getting on the ground is the wrong way to go. I'd say, if you're on the ground you've already made a mistake. An early TKD instructor trained the Korean CIA. He was small but had people attack him on the street in Newark, NJ. It didn't end well for those who attacked him.
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u/Kathdath Jan 17 '26
As a former security guard I seldom saw BJJ win a street fight if the opponent didn't let the fight go to ground (which happened alot if the other person had a modicum of training)
Because of the legal restrictions (including limits for use of force often placed by the security companies) my (very limited) karate and aikido backgrounds were often better suited than the BJJ training some of my collegues had.
Just shrug and say "look when I have reached blackbelt and finished learning the basics we could have a spar and compare, before then it would be rather pointless as it would be like a high school senior fighting somone still in elementary school."
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u/RailroadMech83 Jan 17 '26
You could always point out that UFC Fighter Stephen “Wonderboy” Thompson used Kempo Karate mixed with a bit of kickboxing with a fair deal of success in his MMA Career, and he has a killer highlight reel if you ask me.
Bottom line, if you enjoy the training and what you’re doing, ignore his remarks or shut them down entirely, because it doesn’t matter what anyone thinks except you.
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u/MightyMouse2325 Jan 17 '26
BJJ is really good but all fights start standing up. Most importantly most people who start a fight don’t actually want t fight. They just want to hit you. The main thing karate teaches you is not how to fight. It’s where you are safe and where you are not safe.
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u/4thmonkey96 Okinawa Shorin Ryu| Matayoshi Kobudo Jan 18 '26
you don't.
Mockery thrives on reaction. No fuel no fire.
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u/deletethisbratha Jan 18 '26
Why don’t u spar him? And show him? Sorry if this sounds like I’m being disrespectful but surely a friendly spar is ok
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Jan 13 '26
Why don’t you just spar him?
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u/Bravo929 Isshin-Ryu Jan 13 '26
Not sure why the downvote on this one here. I was thinking the same thing. Having a constructive sparing session to see how techniques and moves play out SAFELY. Majority of the comments are right, none of us are getting paid to do this, let alone enter a ring with a large pot; we're enjoyers/hobbyists. The friend doing MMA should remember its "Mixed" martial arts. I'm sure there is something he can pick up and learn in a small session from your style. Maybe I'm completely wrong about this. Feel free to put me in my place if so.
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u/Sigilbreaker26 Shidokan (士道館) Jan 13 '26
He's getting downvoted because a lot of people are defensive here because there's a likelihood that someone doing six months of MMA is going to trounce someone who's done six months of Wado Ryu unless there's some huge physical disparity. Guys who've done a lot of traditional karate do develop specific strengths but MMA is going to hit usable techniques a lot earlier.
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u/tom_swiss Seido Juku Jan 13 '26
I'm always happy to cross-train with other martial artists. But MMA is a sport embedded in a culture of macho BS. I don't really care if someone doing it "respects" karate or not.
I'm training for self-development, self-defense, and fitness. The sort of MMA player who disrespects others clearly isn't doing much on self-development; since going to the ground is the dumbest possible self-defense strategy, MMA is questionable for self-defense. Fitness-wise, I don't see a lot of 60, 70, 80 year old people still training in MMA.
I've trained with people who had to use karate for self-defense against people in serious situations, including confrontations with guns and knifes, and came out alive.
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u/Ratso27 Shotokan Jan 13 '26
I don’t think it’s worth fighting about. There is a lot about karate that’s kind of silly. That’s fine. A lot of MMA is kind of silly too. Most hobbies have some aspect that’s a little ridiculous to them. If you enjoy it, and you feel like you’re getting something out of it, that’s all that matters. It’s very likely neither of you will ever be involved in a street fight, so who would do better in one doesn’t matter.
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u/Im_Doc Shotokan karate Jan 13 '26
I mean, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Is it really important for your friend to agree with you on this topic? It sounds like a matter of preference.
To switch it up: let's say you like carrots. Your friend hates them. Hey says that that they have a hi glycemic level, people can poison rabbits because they think rabbits eat carrots (they CAN, but they shouldn't), and honestly... spinach is just better for you. I mean c'mon, Popeye! You can eat SO MUCH spinach! It's a high volume/low calorie food.
Does this opinion of your friend preferring spinach over carrots affect you?
Moving back to the topic at hand: Does your friend's opinion of preferring MMA over karate affect you?
How would I respond? "Ok. You do you, boo." But that's me.
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u/reddit_webshithole Jan 13 '26 edited Jan 13 '26
The best thing to do is to agree with him, which sounds counter intuitive.
The thing is, in a one on one streetfight, obviously MMA is the best for self defence. If that was all I cared about, I would train MMA, but it's not. If he respects it, who cares, but you'll get a lot further that way than trying to win an unwinnable argument.
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Jan 13 '26
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u/reddit_webshithole Jan 13 '26
The closest sane thing we have ever had to street fights is the original UFC, where BJJ did very well.
And well, yes, no shit avoiding violence is the safest. Not exactly groundbreaking there, but if you miss that chance, ideally you would want as many tools in your box as possible. The problem is, I really don't care. I've never found myself in a fight in my adult life, and I don't do martial arts because I want to be able to fight.
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Jan 13 '26
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u/reddit_webshithole Jan 14 '26
The rules were fights are won by KO or submission within the time limit (no decision), no gloves required, no eye gouges, no biting. If the way you favour BJJ in MMA is by having that few rules, maybe Royce Gracie just knew what he was doing?
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u/twitchtweak89 Jan 13 '26
Tell him in a street fight the dude ain’t gonna fight with jiu jitsu rules either. What’s he gonna do? Lay on his back and grapple while the dudes buddies stomp his dome? Karate is one form of martial arts that is a key component of MIXED martial arts.
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u/X_MXNE_666 Jhoon Rhee TKD/National Karate Jan 13 '26
Dude, it still gonna work and people dont do that stupid butt-scooting on the street.
If the average joe dont have a basic sense of ground fighting, they are not winning.
Just saying.
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u/twitchtweak89 Jan 13 '26
And I totally agree with you. Which is why I said karate is one key component of mixed martial arts. Jiu jitsu would be another. 99% of people that train in martial arts never experience a true street fight unless they go looking for one, and like others have said if that’s why you’re training then you’re in the wrong mindset.
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u/X_MXNE_666 Jhoon Rhee TKD/National Karate Jan 14 '26 edited Jan 14 '26
Honestly, the key for defending yourself in said situations will all depend on how you spar. If it isn't like light touch point-fighting contact and at least like medium to heavy contact and know when to dial it up at the appropriate situation, I think you would be good for the most part.
Like you don't have to k.o or kill them, just at least hurt them enough that they give up.
Also, situational awareness would be your friend in these scenarios, too.
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u/Wetwedgie Jan 14 '26
BJJ and Karate guy.
A couple of years ago I caught two guys breaking into my car. One was in the car throwing stuff to his buddy outside the car to sort through.
As I approached, the guy outside the car pulled a knife and came for me, while he called to his mate inside the car. At the time I hadnt practiced Karate for over 10 years, but muscle memory stepped in. Had I tried to grapple with the first, the second guy would have stabbed me.
Karate works just fine in the real world.
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u/Apollohubits71 Jan 13 '26
I'm 54 and have a red belt in karate. My son is 22 and is a BJJ blue belt. He advances the same line of debate with me. I laugh and agree with him. I send him memes about BJJ guys starting fights sitting down with their legs in the air. I ask him what it is about rolling around on the floor with sweaty, middle aged men which appeals to him. The BJJ guys all argue that most fights end on the ground so their skills are more valuable in the real world but being on the ground leaves them very vulnerable to a kick in the head from a friend of their assailant. Personally if I can't run away I'd try to stay upright to defend myself. I'm a much better runner than my son, he's actually taller, stronger and heavier than me these days. I'm really proud of him and he'd overwhelm me easily in a fight if he could catch me but I'm developing strength, balance and mobility from karate and most importantly I really enjoy it. Enjoy the banter and don't take it personally.