r/eagles • u/annoyinconquerer • 13h ago
Opinion When did we change our expectations?
From what I recall, before the season every local (Roob, local stations) and national (like Baldy, Chris Long) reporters were telling us to temper expectations of this offense and that it will “take time” for things to get rolling as everyone acclimates to the new system. This was even this sub’s consensus.
To me, this meant at LEAST 1/3 (week 5-6) of the season until things begin to improve.
Given the combination of the laundry list of injuries to our first stringers, the sudden retirement of our best player leading to the depletion and weekly shuffling of our OL using rookies and PS players, AND the tough stretch of games as we go through it (losing to top talent teams like LAR, JAX by one possession in winnable games + a division game to follow)…
Doesn’t it stand to reason that the way we look right now makes sense for the current circumstances?
Yes things look terrible but in my eyes the math checks out on the root causes. Better days SHOULD be ahead.
At this point the only thing I can’t explain is Jalen Carter’s inconsistency. If he can be like he was in London every week we have a shot at anyone. But hey, it seems like his wrist is healing so he’s playing better so maybe that’s it. Go figure.
Go Birds. I’m not off this train yet
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u/PHLEaglesLover Eagles 13h ago
There’s take time versus not be the worst ever
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u/annoyinconquerer 13h ago
Taking the Rams and Jags to the brink is the worst ever? We could do worse.
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u/iadmitiadmit 13h ago
The defense is why we took them to the brink. The bar for the offense this year was not be historically bad at 3 and outs again, not be the worst second half team again, and not be a bottom 5 unit again. Not that hard to understand why people are frustrated again, especially when you realize the problems from last year transferred over exactly the same.
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u/annoyinconquerer 13h ago
Frustration is different than dooming
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u/iadmitiadmit 13h ago
You asked why people changed their expectations and I’m answering that.
The expectations didn’t change, “don’t be absurdly bad after half and converting third downs” was always an expectation. People rightfully also expected their to be a slow start because of ironing out schematic issues with players adjusting to a new scheme. That isn’t why we’ve been ass.
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u/annoyinconquerer 13h ago
It’s more reasonable to be frustrated at bad injury luck than expecting much more out of the corpse of an offense we put on the field.
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u/iadmitiadmit 13h ago
The offense was also bad before the injuries. They put up 7 against Chicago who has one of the worst defenses in the league.
Silver lining is maybe they crack double digits if Andy Dalton doesn’t sub in. Yay I guess
The reoccurring theme with these defenses of the offense is people think they’re purely basing their takes off two games where we’ve had a lot of injuries. They are not. Our issues have been reoccurring for awhile now.
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u/annoyinconquerer 13h ago
I listed a combination of circumstances in my post, not just injuries. It’s the sum of all parts.
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u/iadmitiadmit 13h ago
Yes but your sum of all parts still ignores that against a bad D, without all those circumstances you listed besides a new system, the exact same issues that we’ve seen for 23 games now still prevailed lol
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u/annoyinconquerer 12h ago
Given our injuries were not this bad last year, they are literally not the same issues
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u/KimJongWinning 40-6*** LIX DEEZ NUTZ 13h ago
Process over results. Just because Philly is theoretically a handful of plays/decisions away from being 4-1 does not magically make the offense anything but one of the worst units in the league. We went through this same shit three out of the four most recent seasons where the record looked good to decent on paper, but the deficits were plainly obvious.
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u/annoyinconquerer 13h ago
Do you see who is on the field on offense
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u/KimJongWinning 40-6*** LIX DEEZ NUTZ 13h ago
The run game and offense looked like shit when everyone was healthy as well, the vast majority of the offense was healthy last year as well and the offense still looked dreadful. I understand having hope as a player, but I don't have faith that any OC with Sirianni still around meddling with the week-to-week process will be successful in turning around this negative trajectory
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u/PHLEaglesLover Eagles 13h ago
lmao did you think this was a good response
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u/annoyinconquerer 13h ago
Yes. We are not the worst ever in the history of the sport
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u/KimJongWinning 40-6*** LIX DEEZ NUTZ 13h ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/eagles/s/mn8hKxhlI3
No, just on the trajectory to be the worst second half offense since advanced metrics were tracked in NFL history lol. This does not signal growing pains under a new scheme; the eagles are over a quarter of the way through the season and are one of the worst offenses in recent memory.
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u/PHLEaglesLover Eagles 12h ago
even for the full game the Eagles are on a record breaking pace of 3 and outs and its the worst EPA/drive of any eagles offense since 2005 and this guy is like WELL AKSHUALLY
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u/KimJongWinning 40-6*** LIX DEEZ NUTZ 12h ago
New OC, all offseason the hype was focused on bringing in a new scheme, lots of under center, PA focused passing game... Through five weeks the eagles are the worst under center play action team in the league and doing it at the lowest rate, no significant increase in over the middle of the field throws, absolutely terrible on 3rd down yet again... Has Mannion actually been given reins of the offense or is Sirianni still running the Sirianni scheme with some new ideas blended in here and there?
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u/sybrwookie 8h ago
or is Sirianni still running the Sirianni scheme with some new ideas blended in here and there?
Unless Mannion showed up and said, "lets run tons of plays with no receivers over the middle and WR screens and keep mixing in inside zone runs," you have the answer to your question.
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u/PHLEaglesLover Eagles 12h ago
the plays are absolutely completely different. Sirianni is not interfering thats not a defense of Nick in fact, its an indictment. But the coordinator is not causing Jalen to miss guys open over the middle.
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u/KimJongWinning 40-6*** LIX DEEZ NUTZ 12h ago
There's definitely more variety and thought put into some concepts, but a lot of the same 2x2 and 3x1 shotgun pass concepts are identical to years past - they've kept some of the stalest aspects of the Sirianni offense seemingly as comfort fallback plays, and it's incredibly annoying to see how spineless the calls are in the second half for the entirety of the season.
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u/PHLEaglesLover Eagles 12h ago
ehhh not really true. Like they are running far more crossers and everything. You're also discounting that they keep some plays because Jalen likes them.
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u/annoyinconquerer 12h ago
Worst ever in the 2nd half. Not the worst ever. Nuance matters
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u/PHLEaglesLover Eagles 12h ago
yeah there are other metrics that prove it to be nearly as bad for the full game
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u/Jazzlike_Page508 13h ago
Bro you asked the question and people are responding and now you’re getting butt hurt by the responses
We’ve implemented under center, motion, middle of field
But it’s the same major issues as last year. It’s prevent offense, weird usage if screens in bizzare times, and second half stalling/lack of adjustments
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u/annoyinconquerer 13h ago
I just don’t want to see these same people celebrating when we get healthy and start looking better with more reps.
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u/Jazzlike_Page508 13h ago
“I just don’t want to see these same people celebrating”
Then close your eyes
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u/annoyinconquerer 13h ago
And that’s the issue
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u/Jazzlike_Page508 13h ago
Not at all.
You literally as for peoples ciriticisms and then get mad when people say them
This reeks of insecurity and whinnies “oh I better not see!” Like you hand out an ultimatum like what the hell are you gonna do?
r/annoyinconquerer said he didn’t like us calling out that the offense makes no adjustments. Everyone be warned!
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u/annoyinconquerer 13h ago
None of the criticism that I’m actually replying to are addressing the actual post content.
No shit everything looks terrible. The combination of skill player injuries, the suddenly completely new OL that hasn’t played 2 straight weeks in the same combination, and the expected ramp up of the offense are EXACTLY the reason they are this bad.
But those who are “criticizing” my points are not considering nuance
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u/Jazzlike_Page508 12h ago
Uhh except that’s not thwhat issue. You’re talking about gelling? Is gelling sending Zach ertz coming off a significant injury last year on a friggin go route
Yeah that’s a “gelling issue” sending an old man to book it
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u/annoyinconquerer 12h ago
Now this is a cherry pick. It’s the sum of all issues that has everything looking out of sorts. Watch them start turning it around as we get guys back and Jalen starts seeing the field better within the offense.
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u/Particular-Ring5110 13h ago
It’s two years in a row with one of the worst offenses in the league
It’s not that they’re executing the offense and just losing one on ones they’re not executing anything
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u/dlandis07 13h ago
Do you recall how we had one of the worst offenses in the league last year as well?
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u/bherman1325 13h ago
There's a difference between taking time and being completely incompetent. The offense is dreadful. This team is borderline unwatchable.
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u/annoyinconquerer 13h ago
“Completely” incompetent is an overstatement. They’re about as competent as their circumstances allow them to be.
The offense is completely down to the 2nd and 3rd string at nearly all positions. Running back was down to 4th string.
Hurts, Mailata, and only recently Goedert were literally the only top of depth chart guys on the field on Sunday. Replace Goedert with Steen the week prior against LA.
Add this to the pre-season expectations and you get what you’re seeing.
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u/bherman1325 13h ago
Wicks and Lemon are day 1 starters and perfectly healthy. The team sucks right now.
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u/annoyinconquerer 13h ago
They’re out of position with Devonta out, meaning they are not in their starting roles
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u/bherman1325 13h ago
Literally just trying to cherry pick bs now to defend a historically bad offense. Just accept we aren’t a good team right now.
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u/annoyinconquerer 13h ago
Who said we are a good team right now? Pls quote my post and remind me where I said that.
I’m not cherry picking, I stated a fact. Without Smitty we are leaning on everyone to do more than what they’re expected to do. Not to mention Goedert just came back.
And with blocking being the key piece to a competent passing game, it makes sense why everything looks this bad.
And yet, games aside from Chicago have been winnable
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u/bherman1325 13h ago
We’re closer to 0-5 than we are to 4-1. Schedule should have been a cakewalk for a halfway competent team.
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u/hotz0mbie Eagles 13h ago
The problem is every yard feels like a struggle for this team. There are no easy schemed open 5 yard routes no 4 yard first down runs. Just everything is a struggle for this offense.
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u/annoyinconquerer 13h ago
How is the offense supposed to find a rhythm with everything going on with the roster/lineup?
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u/hotz0mbie Eagles 13h ago
We can’t use that as an excuse when the bears are carving us up with a 3rd string has been and the 49ers win with half their roster on IR. Hell even the giants are winning… even in the beginning of the year when the roster wasn’t as banged up the production was still the same
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u/annoyinconquerer 12h ago
The 9ers have had the same scheme installed for 4 years now. Of course they would still hum with people out.
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u/CheezyBeanBurrito 13h ago
By having competent coaching that can scheme around their players’ strengths. The line is banged up, we should be seeing more quick passes that can make up for the weaknesses in pass protection. We should be seeing more well timed schemes. We should be seeing more bootlegs.
They should be making things easier for their personnel that are on the field, instead it looks like they’re expecting backups to perform the same assignments
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u/annoyinconquerer 13h ago
This is fair, but I address the slow start being exacerbated by the circumstances. They should bounce back.
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u/Prozzak93 12h ago
When people said they expected it to take time they meant they thought the team would be maybe a 20th ranked O and then improve to a top 10 O throughout the year.
They weren't expecting it to be an all time worst second half O and improve to whatever they end up as.
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u/annoyinconquerer 12h ago
Expected 20th + the injuries make me not surprised that they are where they are
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u/Prozzak93 12h ago edited 12h ago
If you aren't surprised that the O is historically bad in the second half of games then you had/have some very tempered expectations that never aligned with the general view of the sub.
Injuries or not.
I expect them to have ups and downs throughout games with more downs than ups at times. I don't expect them to get shut down entirely in second the second half of games consistently.
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u/annoyinconquerer 12h ago
The sub is essentially an extension of our sports radio so I’m not surprised
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u/deuseiswild 13h ago edited 10h ago
It’s not like they’re bottom 10. They’re bottom 3 and in a number of metrics, they’re historically bad. What’s more is they look bad the same way they looked bad last year. And the same way they looked bad in prior years. If they’re going to suck, it would be nice to see them suck in different ways than what we’ve been seeing since 2023.
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u/HouseOfWyrd When life gives you Lemons 12h ago
When people thought it'd take time, we thought that meant we might be averaging to below average.
Instead we're statically one of the worst offenses in the league - and even the worst by some metrics - and we're also the worst Eagles offense this century by some measures.
None of this was covered by those expectations.
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u/BlackMathNerd 12h ago
No one expected the offense to have the level of 3 and outs and general ineffectiveness in functioning, particularly in the 2nd half. Sure there’ll be struggles but a squad like this should t have a “worst in the league” floor
Even with injuries and departures it’s the NFL. Even the worst teams with injuries and other issues can put together better looking offense than ours.
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u/CptJackAubrey_ Jim Johnson Defense 12h ago
Nothing wrong with losing.
The way we are losing is what’s upsetting and worrisome.
A lot of the same issues as last year have not been resolved.
That plus missing key players doesn’t bring much confidence to the fan base.
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u/annoyinconquerer 12h ago
Missing key players at least is recoverable from.
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u/CptJackAubrey_ Jim Johnson Defense 12h ago
Yea I agree. That’s the least of my worries. So much talent on the team.
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u/SomewhereOffScript 12h ago
It’s already been said, but I want to try and articulate more as to why than just “there’s looking bad and being the worst.”
It’s not that it looks bad, or it’s inconsistent. It’s the matter of how we are losing and just how bad it does look. The offensive line outside of Jordan looks lost. We went from Lane being excited about the blocking scheme to quitting 4 weeks in. Cam went from a pro bowler to getting traded (for a good haul). Landon may be cooked.
We have no RB depth and what’s worse is Saquan is still struggling to find space. He has a bit of burst still when he finds it, but the running game looks rough.
The TE room, as much as I love Zach and Dallas, has NO GAS left. The coaching staff has no idea how to use anyone in that room not named Dallas Goedert.
The WR room has been the one bright spot. I have no complaints, even with Devonta out it’s looked really good. Outside of some blocking reps of course
Now the controversial one…Jalen, outside of maybe 4-5 drives this year, has NOT looked good. And it’s only getting worse as the year goes on. The middle of the field throws is worse than it was years prior. He’s awful at PAUC. He has no burst to his run. He doesn’t trust his O-Line, and as a result his footwork and eyes are failing him. There’s a lot of little nuances that are being asked/expected of him and he’s failing them; partially as a result of his O-Line but also just because he hasn’t matured as a passer.
Now the coaching/play-calling. There’s A LOT to like in the design of the offense, a lot of motion, a lot of screens (even if the fail), spread, route variations and combinations. There’s just as much not to like too: the bad blocking and drilling of screens. The predictability of it all (run, pass, pass for long distance and run, run, pass for short).
All things considered: we don’t look good and it’s primarily the coaching, Jalen and some Oline. Jalen has to just do his job. Coaches have to put their guys in better positions. The oline has to be better all around.
I tell my players do your job, not someone else’s, and we’ll give ourselves a chance. Jalen is trying to do everyone’s job. The O-Line doesn’t know their job
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u/annoyinconquerer 12h ago
I agree with your analysis. Way higher quality response with nuance besides “we’re just the worst offense ever.”
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u/sub30_24flick 10h ago
You can’t call an effective game with out good running back Lmfaoooo it’s like trying to call a good basketball game with a trash point guard when we had Saquan we just hand it to him and run the clock we don’t have that
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u/darthmcdarthface 11h ago
It’s one thing for an offense to take time to get rolling. It’s another to have arguably the worst offense in the league that looks exactly as it did for the entirety of the last season too as if absolutely nothing has improved. Only difference I see is more throwing over the middle but other than that it’s still the same flow. Bare minimum first half scoring and absolutely nothing in the second half.
It should look at least like it’s taken steps in the right direction but it hasn’t and it’s not improving week to week. It’s week 6 already and it’s still utter trash.
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u/cringepostonline 13h ago
I mean how can you not have high expectations with 97% + win expectancy percentage 2 weeks in a row and losses. My expectations are even higher because this is the low point and we are still competing.
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u/DisMeDog 13h ago
We did temper our expectations and they still managed to disappoint. I was thinking middle of the pack offense not no first downs for weeks.
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u/Comfortable_Self_736 Never doubted (don't read my history) 13h ago
We went from 32nd in 3 and Outs last season (30%) to 32nd in 3 and outs this season (38%).
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u/JLightning60 13h ago
This is what offenses look like when you average less than 2 yards per carry.
Every third down is third and long.
Need to start throwing on 1st down.
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u/MorPhreeUs Smitty, Wicks and Associates 12h ago
It's been said, no one expected us to be this bad on offense. And what's most frustrating is that we have looked good at times. Jalen and the passing game carried us the first two games while the defense struggled. Then he's been decent in first halves and bad in second halves. We know we are capable of more.
I'm not giving up on the season at 2-3. I'm actually encouraged by the offensive line changes. The defense can be elite and now we're getting key pieces back on O. The division is weak as hell and we have 5 division games left.
I seriously don't get the people that want to punt the season with 12 game to play.
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u/PaddyMayonaise 13h ago
The expectations were it would be slow at the beginning but show glimpses before getting there.
Instead we have the worst offense in the league a third of the way through the season.
Next game is week 6 lol it’s not early in the season anymore
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u/CheezyBeanBurrito 13h ago
Yeah, we expected communication errors, the line gelling under a new scheme, Hurts learning a new offense, and Mannion having growing pains.
We didn’t expect the gestures to pile of shit that we got
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u/PlumCrazyAvenue 13h ago
im not calling for anyone to be fired or declaring this the offense we will see all year. they will hopefully improve as they practice and get more game reps. they just look poorly coached, from the shoddy execution to the outright mistakes like fumbled snaps - which is not the best sign.
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u/boringreddituserid BELT TO ASS 12h ago
I didn’t expect much from the beginning of the season, especially with the injuries. But I did expect to see a different offense, even if there were issues with timing, reads, etc. and I want to see progress week over week. The first half of the Jags game looked better, Jalen not bailing from the pocket and even stepping up in the pocket. Throws to the middle of the field. Even that one pass to Goedert that got called back by a BS OPI was a nice surprise.
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u/potroast2000 9h ago
Most likely a combination of his wrist and bo real pre season action. Can practice and train all you want, not the same as a game. They just took the hard cast off his arm in lieu of a soft, but before that he was grabbing his wrist in pain after plays alot.
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u/ShortEntrepreneur247 9h ago
This offense has been trash way before the injuries. Lets stop with the injuries excuse.
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u/sybrwookie 8h ago
I changed my expectations when our LG came out and his whole body was so wrecked that he could barely move, our C was almost the same and then was traded, our RG is as mid as ever, and our literal candidate for greatest RT of all time retired.
Because I have ZERO confidence that this coaching staff is going to adjust the scheme to work around the line being beat up, as last game we still saw plays with Jalen standing in the pocket for multiple seconds and no receivers even looking back at him (meaning it was still a longer-developing route).
And with that line and that shit playcalling, we're already seeing Jalen frazzled, not keeping his eyes downfield (can't blame him when he barely has 2 seconds before he needs to run for his life), and not having a chance to find open guys.
Given all that, if you don't adjust your expectations down to "we ass," you're not paying attention or you're too stupid to see what's been happening.
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u/Sweet-Emu-7698 12h ago
Three SB appearances in a decade and perennial playoff appearances will do that for a fan base. Despite this year and last, the Eagles have kicked ass.
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u/obeseOJ 13h ago
It's 5 games through the season and last years issues still exist, and it doesn't look to be getting better.
We still use players at a disadvantage (Passes to Johnny Mundt, run up the gut with Shipley on 4th & 1).
It doesn't look like we're waiting on Mannion to get into a groove, or Hurts to get comfortable. It looks more and more like Nick is getting involved and mucking things up.
People's patience with him has rightfully worn thin.
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u/Maleficent-Thanks-85 Eagles 13h ago
I think they will still win at-least 10 games. They should have won both games with everyone out but the coach fucked it up. I think it’s gonna get better lock in.
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u/JuiceBrinner 13h ago
I wanted to post this sentiment but didn’t want to deal with the naysayers.
I always thought give it till Halloween.
Im optimistic because the defense played well the last two weeks and should continue to get better.
End of the day I am not giving up on this team, coach, or organization and am looking forward to the growth I know we will see.
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u/annoyinconquerer 12h ago
Any organization with this much shit going on will be in discord. The progress won’t be linear but I can totally see the ship turned at least halfway around by mid season.
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u/JustBrowsing49 12h ago
It wasn’t supposed to be 5-6 weeks until things BEGIN to improve, it was that long until the offense looks like it was intended to be. We’ve seen zero improvement through 5 weeks.
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u/RvstandRvin1626 12h ago
No one was expecting this team to be 5-0. However, there's 2-3 and there's 2-3. Dickerson and Jurgens having struggles and ending up off the field again was something people were prepared for. This being Lane's last year was known ahead of time. No one was expecting Jurgens to be traded and Lane to be retiring in season, and Landon being injured again before both of things...
This 2-3 could be 4-1 with better game management, even with all the major changes and moving parts on the O-line.
All that said, the offense has additional struggles apart from injuries. The run game in particular. The clip of 3 and outs. The inability to first downs in the second half of a game, nevermind points. You can overcome some of that struggle with better situational coaching, but not all of it.
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u/annoyinconquerer 12h ago
I still see us as a 10+ win team. As much as people want to say it’s the exact same as Patullo’s offense, it’s markedly not despite the results seeming similar.
I think with continuity of our Week 1 roster through these 5 weeks we look way better right now.
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u/DepressedPhillyFan 13h ago
My problem is our offense literally looks like the worst in the NFL, particularly in the 2nd half of games.
If we were simply just mid, I’d tolerate it, but this offense is flat out atrocious.