Is your stuff constantly being broken?

[u/TigerUSF]

No matter how much I try to lock things up, certainly no matter how much I explain to leave stuff alone that isn't theirs. Every day we find something broken, damaged, scratched, etc. And it's never when it happens, it's usually while they are at school that one of us stumbles onto something. Often it's days later.

How much are you experiencing this, and how are you handling it? I'm so tired of our first interaction when I'm home from work is "we need to talk about X" and being upset. I'm certain they think all we ever do is fuss. And I try so hard not to do that but it's just impossible. Yes, they have ADHD, they also aren't great at following any rules whatsoever.

Are we really turning a house into a prison? With locks on literally every door, drawer, closet, etc?

I've tried being mad, they just stare with blank eyes.

I've tried calmly talking through it, they just say "i dont know" to everything we say.

I've tried locks, to the greatest extent possible.

I've tried hiding things but they snoop, even in places I've scolded, fussed, begged, pleaded, punished them to stay away from.

I've tried giving them their own versions of things whenever possible.

I've tried punishing. I mean there's no natural consequence for "they broke my pliers in half". Make them pay for it? Ok, they burn through all their money in like 2 days and then keep breaking stuff, theyd have $2k in debt in no time. And that's not really a joke. They're 11.

And I MIGHT could handle this ok on my own, but it drives my wife literally to anger/depression/anxiety/all those things.

[u/nazump]

How old are they? Not following rules can be a normal part of learning but if it’s constant I think they need to learn there are consequences to not following the house rules.

Edit: I see they are 11. I think the consequence has to be something they care about.

[u/TigerUSF → u/nazump]

They're 11. Twins. Consequences, harsh ones, are pretty ineffective.

[u/Nomapos → u/TigerUSF]

You mention punishment and consequences.

Be precise. What have you tried?

I've raised two ADHD kids past 11 and we did have some of those issues, but consequences did work pretty well. They must be related, though.

It doesn't really make sense to make them spend their money, since they don't really have any to begin with. And taking away random stuff won't work either. Instead, make them fix the problems they cause. Broke a tool? Well, now it's your turn to go to the shop to get a new one. You forgot something somewhere far away at grandma's house after being asked multiple times if you had packed it? Then you have to go pick it up yourself. The big key is annoyance. Kids have no concept of the value of money, but they do understand boredom very well. They fucked up something they can't fix? Well, they'll have to sit next to you while you're fixing it and simply waste exactly as much time as you.

But look past punishments. They're already big enough to consider their actions and learn about consequences, but it's usually more effective to channel behavior than to punish it. Talk with them. Reserve two hours and sit down at the table for a family talk (if you've never made any, it's a good occasion to get started. Give them a chance to talk about their lives and roles in the family and give you some feedback). Figure out HOW they're breaking stuff. One of ours didn't mean to scratch and break things, he just liked the feeling on his hands as the fork scraped on the table. So we got him some fidgeting toys. The other one was simply curious and liked testing things, and he kinda short-circuited around "I wonder how hard you can push this bit" and didn't get to "the only way to find that out is to actually break it". We let him think about it for a couple days and it eventually came out that he liked experimenting and building stuff. We got him some old tech parts and other similar trash for him to experiment with.

If they can't figure it out (likely the case at the beginning. They're not used to think about what they do, and it's tiring to do so, so they'll just try to escape with a quick "I don't know"), tell them it's becoming enough of a problem and it's time they start thinking why they do what they do. Tell them they can have time to think about it, so they should pay attention. Next day, call them again. Let them sit for half an hour considering an answer if they don't have any. Repeat every day. After a few, the annoyance will be present enough that they'll actually pay attention to give you some answer.

In my experience, the combination of these two approaches works best. And don't lock stuff. Locks are against 3-4 year olds. At 11 it's their behavior that needs addressing. A lock will help you now, but what are you planning to do in 5 years when they're much more stronger and stubborn if they still haven't had to learn to control themselves?

[u/TigerUSF → u/Nomapos]

I'm responding with an open mind so please don't interpret any of this as being argumentative or defensive.

Re specific consequences: We've tried- taking away video games, taking away toys, time outs, grounding for days at a stretch, paying for things (they earn money / have allowance), writing apology notes, writing sentences (a la bart simpson on the chalkboard), tried/hated/abandoned corporal punishment (don't start), making them do work projects, throwing away /donating their stuff, idk, probably even more things i can't think of.

Re money - i think i agree , it's something we tried but it doesn't work. I get it when it comes to "natural consequences" but so often there just isn't anything we've found that is "natural". This morning I discovered someone broke an old, small neon sign I have in my office. It's like a sports team logo and it's smaller than a piece of paper. Not a big mess to clean, just broken. I'm not going to replace it, it only had sentimental value. "Cleanup" means "place it in garbage can." Which I will make them do, if i can even get a confession but that also sucks because that incentivizes them to never confess and then what? punish the whole group?

re talking with them. we've tried. we've tried so, so, so much. no avail. like i said, blank stares. every question is just a mumbled "i dont know" or silence. theyre just waiting for it to be over. there is never any conversation. when i say "they hate us" i mean, i can understand from their perspective all we ever do is fuss. but every day starts off this way. i do not know how to break the cycle.

re locks, i totally agree with you, though i half expect an army of responders saying "why wasnt this all locked?!?"

[u/Nomapos → u/TigerUSF]

Well, there you have it. They're completely disengaged from the topic.

We got to a similar point too before we got to the right answers, so I'd suggest you to try what I wrote. Consequences involve fixing things by themselves or boredom while you fix it. Talk with a focus on "us all vs this problem" , not " we as you parents demanding you do what we want you to do". Think: kids don't like getting scolded or punished. Something is driving them to act the way they do, and they don't know what or why, either. They don't need rules, they need a tool to handle it.

And for those blank stares and "I don't know", let them sit daily with paper until they write it down. You just to walk the fine line between punishing for not talking (which we want to avoid! You're trying to work with them here) and forcing them to engage their brains and think a bit. No screaming, no drama. You have to be very calm yourself. They need to understand that you're trying to help them, not control them. But that's only possible if that's what you're actually trying to do. You might have to do some work on your own emotions before you can pull that off.

Best of luck!

[u/CuteAd6085 → u/nazump]

Man, I hear you on the blank stare thing, it's maddening when you're trying every angle and they just check out. At 11 with ADHD the impulse control and working memory aren't there yet, so consequences that happen days later basically don't connect. My only thought is making the natural consequence happen the second you find the broken pliers and dragging them right into the cleanup or disposal, no lecture just action.

[u/empire161]

I've tried locks, to the greatest extent possible.... I've tried hiding things but they snoop, even in places I've scolded, fussed, begged, pleaded, punished them to stay away from.

I mean, if they're 11yo and still going this far out of their way to find things that don't belong to them and "accidentally" break it... that's a problem.

My only two suggestions would be to pre-emptively point out something that belongs to them and say the next they break something of yours, you'll break their thing too or otherwise throw it out.

Second would just be actual manual labor as a way of paying off whatever they broke. If they broke your pliers and you have to spend $35 for a new one, at $7/hr, they've got 5 hours of yardwork to do that weekend. Pick up sticks, rake leaves, pull weeds, move firewood, etc.

[u/BigEarMcGee → u/empire161]

It’s a step toward accountability

[u/PixleyAI]

everything breakable lives on a high shelf now. cheap bins for their junk so mine stays intact. still loses.

[u/BigEarMcGee]

It’s impulse control, we ADHDers don’t have it, it’s a skill that is learned and still I can’t help myself sometimes. I am very respectful of others property and belongings. I learned that I can’t play with it if the person who owns it doesn’t say I don’t care if it breaks/ you crash etc. even when they say I can if I can afford to replace I don’t touch.

[u/Sacrefix]

Not really an issue for us; we have a 4 year old and 6 month old. 4 year old is crazy, but also respectful.