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u/Dazzling-Sorbet-803 Jul 22 '26
Yo' Orion's so fat, its belt is literally a constellation.
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u/Jack-of-Hearts-7 Clan Coyote Jul 22 '26
Yo' Atlas so fat, it holds up the planet!
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u/Gremlov Kahn Sarah McEvedy ist a Hero in this House Jul 22 '26
"Call me fat again and I'll put you through the wall" - Thug THG-11E
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u/TheManyVoicesYT MechWarrior (editable) Jul 22 '26
Thug is a proper assault. 2 PPCs and SRMs is a hefty introtech payload.
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u/Gremlov Kahn Sarah McEvedy ist a Hero in this House Jul 22 '26
Plus it has no heat issues and hand actuators to punch and enough armour to take serious damage without a problem.
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u/TheManyVoicesYT MechWarrior (editable) Jul 22 '26
When I think assault mech, I think of "220+ armor" as default. If it isnt Battlemaster level of tough at minimum it aint an assault.
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u/Gremlov Kahn Sarah McEvedy ist a Hero in this House Jul 22 '26
Yup. Assaults have to be bricks and so is the Thug.
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u/Stretch5678 I build PostalMechs Jul 22 '26
Being able to tape the fire buttons down and still have ice cream in the cockpit is pretty great.
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u/Gremlov Kahn Sarah McEvedy ist a Hero in this House Jul 22 '26
Quality of life upgrade . You could even have ice cream if your reactor took a hit.
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u/TheSFW_Alt Tell me to thin my paints? Batchall. Jul 22 '26
Thug, the mech so good that it could even make Chargers good
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u/Yeach Jumpjets don't Suck, They Blow. Jul 22 '26
Just a Warhammer.
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u/Gremlov Kahn Sarah McEvedy ist a Hero in this House Jul 22 '26
....with enough Heatsinks and Armour.
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u/lacteoman Whitworth Enjoyer Jul 22 '26
80 tons my beloved
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u/AGBell64 Jul 22 '26
All of my favorite heavy mechs are 80 tons
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u/lacteoman Whitworth Enjoyer Jul 22 '26
same, i'll look for any excuse to bring a Zeus, Charger or Victor...
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u/EyeStache Capellan Unseen Connoisseur Jul 22 '26
This is CGR-1A1 slander.
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u/Cazmonster Jul 22 '26
56 damage on the charge says “I’m not fat, just big boned”.
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u/chroniclesoffire Jul 22 '26
You mean 64 damage under the new rules?
Tons: 80/5 =16 TMM: 7 hexes for 3+1 new rules = 4
Ton*TMM = 64 damage
I think 56 damage is old rules where it was tons/10*hexes=damage.
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u/jandrese Jul 22 '26
The Charger was seriously hampered by the old charge rules. Sure there's a theoretical massive damage roll but in practice getting it lined up was close to impossible and even if you did you needed very hot dice to connect with that charge attack. The only good thing is when you have to give up the weapon attacks to get the chance at the charge you were only giving up a handful of popgun lasers.
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u/AGBell64 Jul 22 '26
even if you did you needed very hot dice to connect with that charge attack.
Not really? The stock charger is absurdly cheap to put like a 5/3 pilot in and if your opponent hasn't spent BV upgrading their own pilots it's effectively a 5/1, and even a very doable 5 hex charge will put a lot of stuff in a world of hurt. Regardless, a big brick of armor that moves 5/8 and costs less than 1000 bv stock meant that the 1A1 has basically always been at minimum a very credibly tech piece even if you never charge someone, especially if you play a scenario where tonnage can sway scoring in your favor.
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u/jandrese Jul 23 '26
I don't know if it has changed, but it used to be base 5, +2 because you ran, + your targets TMMs, + any terrain effects, + the piloting differential.
And this assumes you didn't get knocked over on the way in because you took 20+ points of damage and had to make a PSR.
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u/AGBell64 Jul 23 '26
The base is piloting, not 5. If you have a piloting score 3 pilot running to charge a piloting score 5 pilot in a mech with a tmm of 3 in light woods then the target number is 7+ (3+2+3+1-2), so slightly better than coin flip odds for a relatively well protected target. If you have a more normal target (like, say, a heavy mech with a total tmm+terrain penalty of 2 for a tn of 5+), you really don't need super hot dice, especially as a PSR to stay standing thru movement will be on a 4+ in this scenario
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u/Aedene Jul 22 '26
Suuuure we can get these Charger's flipped for ya! Juuuust gonna redo some of these here internals, maybe give it some beefier energy hardpoints, maybe a-- Why is there an igloo-sized samurai helmet on a pallet in my mech bay?
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u/mygamingid Jul 22 '26
Nah, that's a Fat Medium armed almost as heavily as a 20-ton WSP-1W.
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u/Jeff_From_IT Jul 22 '26
And fast for an assault mech but slow for someone talking shit in gauss range.
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u/feor1300 Clan Goliath Scorpion Jul 22 '26
Everyone loves to talk shit about the 1A1 until you've taken out both arms and both side torsos and it still hits you for 50+ damage with a flying headbutt.
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u/thesadkobold grasshopper fan Jul 22 '26
Enter the squared circle
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u/feor1300 Clan Goliath Scorpion Jul 22 '26
or the circle circle if you're playing by Star Commander of Queensbury Rules. :p
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u/TheManyVoicesYT MechWarrior (editable) Jul 22 '26
I made a video on this thing specifically to point out it's basically one of Battletech's best distraction carnifez units. Big, tough, reasonable fast, and hits hard in melee.
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u/Finwolven Jul 23 '26
Other Distraction Carnifexes I've used are Hunchback (including IIC), SRM Carrier, Annihilator and, for a bit of a reverse DC, a Rifleman 3C because 'hey it's a Rifleman, no weapons and paper for armor - whaddaya mean my light got both its legs ripped off by one salvo?'
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u/TheManyVoicesYT MechWarrior (editable) Jul 23 '26
Huh. That is... a pretty decent unit. It's still quite thinly armored tho.
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u/Stretch5678 I build PostalMechs Jul 22 '26
The Cudgel would like to enter this discussion.
Violently.
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u/DaMadPotato 3000 Twirled mustaches of the Coordinator Jul 22 '26
May or may not be a hot take, but I find 80 ton mechs have more uses than 100 tonners more often than not.
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u/AGBell64 Jul 22 '26
80 tons is a more flexible weight because you can still fit up to a 5/8 movement curve with a 400 rate engine and your jump jets only cost 1 ton instead of 2. You get the range to do everything from slow fire support bricks like the Awesome and Legacy to bona fide heavy cav designs like the Gargoyle and Spartan. 100 tonners are basically always trudging walls of guns.
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u/Magical_Savior NEMO POTEST VINCERE Jul 22 '26
Kodiak 2 and Iron Cheetah L would like to know your location.
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u/DaMadPotato 3000 Twirled mustaches of the Coordinator Jul 22 '26
Have you considered that you can get 4 Chargers for barely 150 more BV than a Kodiak 2 with a 3/4 pilot?
Don't know which side wins that fight, but I know which one is funnier.
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u/Magical_Savior NEMO POTEST VINCERE Jul 22 '26
When I have a Charger with an Ultra 20, I'll consider it. I put it on a War Crow and a Hatchetman; gimme a minute.
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u/Flat_Ad9694 Jul 23 '26
Do you have a minute to hear about our lord and savior the charger-1a5.
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u/Magical_Savior NEMO POTEST VINCERE Jul 24 '26
That or a Banshee has been the starting inspiration for a UAC/20 version, so far. I may look for other inspiration.
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u/harris5 House Liao Jul 22 '26
Agree. At 4/6 you're a slow moving threat. At 3/5 you're a liability to your team.
True assault mechs at 3/5 are only suitable for walking into range of fixed emplacements and outgunning them. That's the only thing they do well. They assault fortified positions.
A "Fat Heavy" is a heavy, and thus still useful.
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u/Lunar-Cleric Eridani Light Horse Jul 22 '26
I find that slow assaults are best for defense not offense. Meaning your enemy comes to you while you are in a well prepared position with plenty of cover and clear lines of sight.
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Jul 23 '26
[deleted]
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u/DaMadPotato 3000 Twirled mustaches of the Coordinator Jul 23 '26
85 has some really good machines yes, though there's not that many of them. The Stalker and Masakari are probably my favorites in that tonnage.
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u/Ham_The_Spam Jul 22 '26
Why yellow text on yellow background?!
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u/thomstevens420 Jul 22 '26
Imagine 4 chan being the reason you find out you’re colourblind
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u/AGBell64 Jul 22 '26
In fairness this isn't even the real 4chan color palette, I just half remembered the colors and dicked around in the MS paint color picker for all of 10 seconds until it looked about tight
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u/Past_Search7241 Jul 22 '26
All part of a psyop to ensure 4chan users are the most hateful people on the planet.
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u/LowlySlayer Jul 22 '26
It's green text on a green background and it's a 4chan thing. These are called "greentexts" (very original name)
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u/Ezreon Jul 22 '26
Its green text on a yellow background. What are you two talking about?
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u/Balikye Jul 22 '26
Didn't expect to find TWO colorblind people in the comments.
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u/DjDrowsy Clan Smoked Brisket Jul 22 '26
It's the most frequent disability in the world. 1 in 12 men have it.
Fun fact if all colorblind people formed one country they would be the 4th largest country in the world with around 300M people.
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u/Holybat20 Jul 22 '26
if loving 80 tonners like the Awesome and Warhammer IIC is wrong, I don't wanna be right
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u/TheManyVoicesYT MechWarrior (editable) Jul 22 '26
Both real assaults. Big firepower and armor. The Awesome specifically is very slow and armored like a brick so it's definitely a "real assault"
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u/Pollia Jul 22 '26
Isn't this the case for every slightly heavier than the last class mech?
It's technically a higher classification, sure, but it's not like you can fit a lot of shit with only 5 extra tonnage to work with.
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u/AGBell64 Jul 22 '26
Yeah capabilities are a spectrum that the weight classing system arbitrarily subdivides into 4 (or if you want to be pedantic, 6) categories which often bleed into each other. I could've easily done this same joke for 60 or 40 tons but I chose 80 because there are lots of icon mechs at the weight and I didn't want to deal with the "cursed tonnage" arguments around 40 tons or the jump jet breakpoint at 60 tons throwing things off track
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u/Commissarfluffybutt Jul 22 '26
They all suffer from somebody thinking a single AC5 is a good idea on 40/60/80 tonner.
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u/DINGVS_KHAN PPC ENJOYER Jul 23 '26
In the case of introtech and standard engines, I'm pretty sure you end up with less space unless you drop the engine size/movement profile down a notch.
That's why the Awesome and Stalker are viewed favorably, because they committed to being assault mechs instead of trying to be overweight heavy mechs.
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u/Pollia Jul 23 '26
Right which is why the cicada is the way it is. The physics don't allow it to be anything other than what it is.
To be the same speed as a locust you need a comparably big engine, which weighs more, which means any possible benefit of weighing twice as much is basically lost.
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u/AGBell64 Jul 23 '26
At 75, 80, and 85 tons 4/6 movement and a standard engine all net you 42.5 tons of free payload.
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u/BriefingScree Jul 23 '26
The main 'benefits' are likely more lore related like manufacturing costs
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u/Thewaltham Jul 22 '26
The main problem with getting an 80 tonner is that you didn't get a Marauder or an Orion.
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u/AGBell64 Jul 22 '26
Marauder
[EXTREMELY LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER]
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u/Thewaltham Jul 22 '26
No matter which way you slice it, the Marauder is better. Low profile giving it much more protection than the already decent 11.5 tonnes would have you think, hyper extending actuators meaning it can't be safely backstabbed, better weapon loadout, and gives a command mech bonus.
It is also one of the sexiest mechs in the setting. Especially on the Inner Sphere side.
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u/AGBell64 Jul 22 '26
" No matter which way you slice it, the Marauder is better."
Relies on quirks to make argument
Yes, if you play games with the systen that has no balance costs whatsoever where the devs put an anvil on the scale in favor of the MAD it is really good. If you just look at the record sheet the thing's somewhere between a piece of junk and competent but not standout compared to its peers. The 3R specifically can get outdone at its own game by the Catapult K2, a mech 10 tons lighter. I much prefer the Thug as a 2 gun fighter (because a number of MADs especially early on defacto are 2 gun heavies) and the Awesome as 3 gun fire support mech.
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u/Iron_Babe Jul 22 '26
That's fair, but I do think that playing with quirks is a lot of fun and brings a lot more flavor to games. Battletech was never really meant to be a super balanced game in the first place
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u/AGBell64 Jul 22 '26 edited Jul 22 '26
There's fun and not super balanced and then there's "Oh, your favorite mech is the stone rhino? Kill yourself."
Quirks are great if you play with mechs that have favorable or balanced quirk profiles (or just use Narrow/Low Profile) but the system is so poorly designed and there are enough designs that break from the guidance on quirk allocation that it creates a lot of optimal choices with no opportunity costs that I do not find fun. I would prefer players pick mechs they want to use based on merits that are quantified instead of being influenced FASA/CGL's decisions on who to or not to make a special little birthday boy
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u/Lunar-Cleric Eridani Light Horse Jul 22 '26 edited Jul 22 '26
Marauder hater detected, opinion invalidated.
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u/DaMadPotato 3000 Twirled mustaches of the Coordinator Jul 22 '26
I love the Marauder, but I often end up not chosing it because it's just so ubiquitous that my lances feel a bit less unique as a result.
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u/EfficiencyUsed1562 Jul 22 '26
You know what. I love the Marauder. But that's fair. I can respect that.
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u/RhesusFactor Orbital Drop Coordinator, 36th Lyran Guard RCT Jul 22 '26
Grand Crusader cant flip you off without hands.
(TIL All Grand crusaders can flip arms, huh, the art is wrong.)
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u/Chaos1357 Jul 22 '26
That's not the problem with 80 tonners.. that's the problem with all "Assault Mechs" in 3025. There are 2.5 "Real" assault mechs, 1 "almost" assault mech, and the rest are fat heavies (or in at least 1 case, an obscenely obese medium).
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u/4e6f626f6479 Jul 22 '26
Oh c'mon, you can't just say than and then not name names.
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u/Chaos1357 Jul 23 '26
We all know who the 2.5 are, and the one almost.
The 2.5 are the Awesome, the Stalker, and the Banshee 3S is the .5 And the Almost is the Atlas.
The Charger is the obese medium.
Everything else is a fat heavy (though an argument could be made that the Victor is also an obese medium, as it's just a Hunchback that spent 30 tons on an SRM pack and learning to jump).
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u/Kamenev_Drang Hidden Worlds Strike Force Jul 23 '26
Awesome, Battlemaster, Stalker, Atlas. Victor is a bit too thin skinned, Goliath doesn't have the short ranged punch. Zeus is hampered by poor design choices as is the Cyclops
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u/Chaos1357 Jul 23 '26
Battlemaster is a fat heavy. it's a decent one, but it's still a fat heavy.
And the Atlas is the "almost" case. it's "almost" a good assault mech.
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u/Kamenev_Drang Hidden Worlds Strike Force Jul 23 '26
Battlemaster and Atlas are the only proper assault Mechs in TRO 3025. The rest are just fat heavies.
Awesome? Just a slow Warhammer with more gun
Stalker? Basically two Whitworth's strapped together.
Cyclops? Skinny fast Atlas.
None of the rest of them are built to stand on a street corner and fight like the Atlas or Battlemaster. There's an argument for the Stalker but it minces around too much with range brackets.
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u/Chaos1357 Jul 23 '26
The Stalker equals or outguns the atlas at every range. The Stalker is the true assault mech... The atlas is the wannabe. And the battlemaster is nothing more than an overweight grasshopper that lost the ability to jump. It's a true fat heavy. A good one, but still one .
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u/Kamenev_Drang Hidden Worlds Strike Force Jul 24 '26
"Outguns" is immaterial, an assault 'Mechs job is to assault things not be a fire support platform. The Battlemaster has better mobility, battlefists and better armour. The Atlas has six tons more armour, battlefists and a class 20 autocannon. Both can also actually stand up if knocked over again as they have actual arms.
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u/Chaos1357 Jul 24 '26
Regarding your defense of the Battlemaster.. The Thunderbolt, 20 tons lighter, ahs better firepower, the same mobility, the same battlefists, and nearly the same armor. The Guilotine has better mobility, nearly the same firepower, nearly the same armor, and better heat management. The Battlemaster is nothing but a fat heavy. there is NOTHING it does that a Heavy can't do just as well.
The Atlas... as I said, it's the "almost" assault mech. It's a better one then any of the fat heavies, but not as good as any of the actual assault mechs
And the Stalker can stand up just fine (unless they changed it in the upcoming rules, lack of apparent arms doesn't impact a mechs PSR to stand). And.. one on one, the Stalker will trash either of your assaults.
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u/Kamenev_Drang Hidden Worlds Strike Force Jul 24 '26
The Thud was designed as an planetary assault 'Mech and is effectively a pocket assault.
Actually, as a comparison to the Stalker the Thunderbolt makes a better point. The Stalker only has a half-ton more armour than the Thunderbolt and a handful more missile tubes, all the while being slower and thus squishier. The Battlemaster meanwhile has a good ton of armour on the Stalker and a usable movement profile.
The Atlas is the 3025 assault 'Mech. The Awesome cannot fight in the close, the Stalker is too slow and squishy, the Battlemaster is poorly optimised with two tons set aside from MG rounds (when it already has a 6rack you can load frag or inferno into)
(unless they changed it in the upcoming rules, lack of apparent arms doesn't impact a mechs PSR to stand).
No/Minimal Arms quirk. Safely ignorable for gameplay purposes but very important from a in-universe PoV.
And.. one on one, the Stalker will trash either of your assaults.
Discounting the usual shennagins with TAC, there's very little chance of a Stalker killing an Atlas on anything but a flat plain. Even then the Atlas can just lumber forward at +2TMM into 3-6 hexes and start applying AC20
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u/Chaos1357 Jul 24 '26
Quirk. Not official rule. Meaning that, officially, there is no negative to not having fully worked up arms. In universe... stalkers, ravens, locusts, everything without arms...gets up just fine.
by the time your Atlas is in AC20 range, it's lost more armor then the Stalker has (because the Stalker has more then 20 LRM tubes it can fire outside of point blank range).. and if you are in range to shoot me with your AC20, you are in range for me to shoot you with my superior firepower (2x SRM6 and 4x MLs is superior to 1x AC20 and 2x ML.. .heck, not even the King Crab can match the Stalker's top heat safe up close firepower).
The Atlas wins (when it does) by surviving getting shot at, not by killing it's opponent. The Stalker wins by outgunning almost everything else that can even step onto the battlefield, at any range.
oh, and if you are too close for the Awesome to shoot you accurately, he still shots you AND breaks your knees with a kick. Even at point blank range, the PPC from the Awesome has a better chance to hit then at long range... so it's still being shot, still going to hit a legitimate percentage of the time, and you are going to eat a 16 point kick... and the brick is just going to absorb whatever you try to do back to it... and you have to get there first, which means eating a lot of PPC fire to start with.
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u/Kamenev_Drang Hidden Worlds Strike Force Jul 24 '26
Quirks are entirely official and reflect the in-universe characteristics of the 'Mechs. They're just not standard gameplay rules because they're not balanced via BV.
by the time your Atlas is in AC20 range, it's lost more armor then the Stalker has (because the Stalker has more then 20 LRM tubes it can fire outside of point blank range).
Flat-plaining it, there's a 9 hex window where the Stalker has a meaningful advantage in throw weight, which is five turns of fire with it's two large lasers. Except of course it doesn't have that, because it can only fire both LLs and one LRM 10 without overheating, and given the LRM10s have better odds until the 10 hex window (around turn 3), you're probably gonna be doublefiring those and firing a single LL. You can't even really go for chain firing because the moment you add in that second large laser you go to 5 heat over (8+8+4+4+1) and then you start losing MP, which is a real bad tradeoff. So what you've effectively got for the initial stages is an extra 8 points of damage hitting on 9(2 turns) and 11s (3 turns), which means in that 5 hex window you're gonna on average do just under a single extra 8 damage to the Atlas, or half a ton of armour. You have a six ton armour disparity.
There's a reason the AS-7D is nearly 500BV more expensive despite having rear-firing medium lasers and a very ammo-intense layout.
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u/135forte Jul 22 '26
Most of the tonnages you go up in weight class at aren't great. The Cicada gains like 4t dropping to 35t, which would allow it to fix basically every problem. 60t can be better than 55t, but only if you don't use jump jets. And then at 80t, you are either being compared to much heavier machines that move the same as you but with more guns/armor or slightly lighter machines that are faster with similar amount of guns/armor.
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u/TheManyVoicesYT MechWarrior (editable) Jul 22 '26
85 tonners are great at 4/6/4 builds. They are the biggest you can get with 1 ton JJs. Oversized lights are a real issue tho. The cicada just doesnt make any sense. Theres no reason to make it not 35 tons. It would be a solid unit at that size. The Mongoose is really good. A mongoose with extra armor and a couple small lasers slapped on would be amazing.
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u/135forte Jul 22 '26
85t isn't a weight class break point though, and that just proves the point; 75t good, 85t good, 80t not really. It even applies to the lights, as there are a good number of solid 45t mechs. 65t not so much off the top of my head, but the 55t bracket is just so strong compared to the 60t.
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u/dagthegnome Jul 22 '26
Everyone always likes to dismiss the lowest-tier brackets in each weight class, but I'm not convinced. Even just looking at introtech, are there really that many better 45-tonners than 40s? Yes, at 40 tons you have the Assassin, the Vulcan-2T, the Hermes II and Icarus II, none of which are great, but you also have the Whitworth, which is a severely underrated fire support platform, and you have the Vulcan 5T. Either of those is A or B-Tier. What do we have for 45? The Phoenix Hawk: A-Tier. Vindicator: B or C-Tier. And then the Blackjack, which is just as useless as Vulcan 2T.
In the 60-ton weight bracket, you have the Quickdraw, which isn't great, the Dragon, also not great, and the Rifleman, which is only useful in its niche, but you also have the Ostroc and the Ostsol, both of which I would argue are very good, and even the Merlin can be decent. That's just as many solid designs as there are in the 65-ton bracket.
And at 80 tons, even in introtech, there are a couple F-Tier Mechs, but the Awesome 8Q can give any 85-tonner a run for its money, and there are a couple of good Victor and Zeus variants.
Altogether, I don't really buy the conventional wisdom that the lowest bracket in every weight class is disproportionately cursed.
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u/vicevanghost Big guns. Big fists. Jul 22 '26
The warlord is one of my favorite mechs and it wouldn't work nearly as well at 75 tons
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u/Magical_Savior NEMO POTEST VINCERE Jul 22 '26
The spec for the design exercise was to prove that it could (though executive meddling stopped the original publication), and the 75t Warlord BLR-2XC proves that it does.
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u/vicevanghost Big guns. Big fists. Jul 22 '26
I'm not fond of the 2xc personally, though I should've said i do mean the stock configuration doesn't work at 75, variants can ofc work differently
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u/BionicSpaceJellyfish Jul 22 '26
If the Spartan C is good enough for the Scorpion Empire, it's good enough for me.
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u/GloatingSwine Jul 22 '26
This is kind of the same for almost all mechs at the bottom end of their weight class. See also: The 40-45 tonners like the Blackjack, Vulcan, and Assassin. They're pretty good at bullying Lights but not much cop at standing up against the heavier Mediums.
Happens again with the 60 ton heavies and the 80 ton assaults. They're mostly good at punching down and sometimes worse at punching up than the top end of the class below.
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u/AGBell64 Jul 22 '26
As I said elsewhere I chose 80 tons for popularity reasons and because there's other stuff muddying the 40 and 60 ton discussions (basically none of the introtech 40 tonners were well designed to manage the strengths of the weight bracket, 60 tons has the jump jet breakpoint kicking in at the same time).
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u/Kettereaux Jul 22 '26
The Warhammer IIC. When 'heavy' and 'assault' are less important than 'makes smoking wreckage'.
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u/Aggravating_Plenty53 Jul 22 '26
I love 80 toners
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u/Pro_Scrub Everybody gangsta until the Charger charges Jul 22 '26
You must print a lot of record sheets to go through that much toner!
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u/TheManyVoicesYT MechWarrior (editable) Jul 22 '26
85 tonners are the ideal weight for jump jet units that dont want to go 5/8. This means that the Stalker is one of the ideal 3/5/3 platforms and makes a hell of a sniper when it can just leap into position on a hill instead of plodding up the hill over 2 turns. A solid refit is to swap a large laser for JJs and either heat sinks or making the LRMs bigger, depending on variant.
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u/spotH3D MechWarrior (editable) Jul 22 '26
lol, I still like the classic Awesome and the Neanderthal. That last one is fun fun fun. TSM hatchet fun running at 9 MP and EZ EZ heat management.
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u/morbo-2142 Jul 22 '26
They have their niches. Mostly being blown to bits because mechwarriors use them wrong.
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u/codifier Jul 22 '26
For us dummies in the room what is the right way to use them and how do people misuse them? Genuine question
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u/morbo-2142 Jul 22 '26
So the Zeus is a long range fire support mech. It has some armor ans speed but it doesn't have the guns to contribute to a close in brawl.
I consider the Victor a heavy flanker/ raider mech.
Its fast for its weight, has jumpjets, and some ok weapons. Unfortunately its armor is fairly light for an assault mech. Its scary to flank with or pop over a hill into some medium mechs, but it can be out-fought by a good heavy in a straight-up fight.The charger is just an engine and some fists to drive at the enemy and do something cool before they get blasted into the ground.
The main thing is all these mechs don't do well just bee lining it at the enemy and trading shots. They are all over engined to a degree so are fast but lose something else.
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u/JoushMark Jul 22 '26
Fat heavies are great. The real question is trooper speed (4/6) or assault speed (3/5). Trooper speed assaults are either fat heavies or expensive things with XL engines.
Assault speed heavies bring lots of firepower to the party and can bring in plenty of armor with it, and have the inherent advantages of fat (high internal structure, melee damage).
Trooper heavies are easy to sleep on. It's a fat heavy. But fat heavies are pretty good when balanced by BV. Fatness is mostly free, and their limited firepower keeps their cost down a lot.
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u/va_wanderer Jul 22 '26
80 tons is notable as being the point where if you want it moving at 4/6 speeds in the Succession War era, the engine ratings go over 300 and you have less power-to-weight and a bigger gyro, which tends to eat up the extra payload to minimal gain. (And of course, slapping a 400 rated engine into an 80-tonner is barely possible, but that's why Chargers exist.)
Thus, 80-85 is "fat heavy" if it's 4/6. At 3/5, it's using an engine still in the under-300 rating, meaning it doesn't eat up it's heavier total tonnage in moving faster than it really should. Of course, newer tech makes this less noticeable when those big boys are using light/XL engines and other weightsaving technology.
It also means a lot of those chonky bois in the 3025 TRO become honestly frightening if rebuilt with an appropriate engine. Things like the Challenger (downengined Charger), for example.
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u/TheSFW_Alt Tell me to thin my paints? Batchall. Jul 22 '26
80 tons is the perfect weight to carry all my love for the Thug
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u/larknok1 Jul 22 '26
Depending on my mood, I recognize either 4 Weight Classes (Light, Medium, Heavy, Assault), or 8:
True Lights (20-30)
Speedy Mediums (35-45)
True Mediums (50-55)
Fat Mediums (60-65)
True Heavies (70-75)
Fat Heavies (80-85)
True Assaults (85-90)
Big Stompy Boys (100)
---
(Yes, I know 85 shows up twice. My brain can't decide where to put it, and there are 85 tonners that feel like fat heavies and others that feel like true assaults.)
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u/Stegtastic100 Jul 22 '26
The question for an 80 ton ‘mech should be “Does it carry 3 PPCs?” If the answer is “no”, then it’s not.
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u/CycleZestyclose1907 Jul 22 '26
Fat Heavy or Real Assault?
In my experience, it depends on how fast the mech can move. The 4/6ers are the Fat Heavies. They move with the regular heavies, fight like a heavy, and can be considered a heavy in all but name despite sitting on the wrong side of class dividing line.
The 3/5ers are the Real Assaults. What they sacrifice in speed, they make up in firepower. No better example of this than the Awesome. Sure, they can't carry as much armor as your 95 and 100 tonners, but they don't really need to when they can carry almost as much firepower.
And the 5/8 Chargers and their (most Clan) imitators? We don't talk about those.... \shudders**
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u/MasonStonewall Jul 22 '26
In the 80 ton Mech realm, the Victor will always have a place in my heart and service. Mostly because I nearly won a tournament in the late 80's with one (along with four Wolfhound) and also I've been a lifetime Federated Suns member since 1985.
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u/ArchonStranger Jul 23 '26
"Fat Heavy" now a part of accepted vernacular.
"Fat Heavy" will be used at every opportunity, appropriate or not.
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u/Direct_Violinist8923 Jul 23 '26
the awesome 11m is the best assault mech ever created and you cant tell me otherwise
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u/arcangleous Jul 23 '26
Well, yeah. The way the engine curve break down, the two lowest tonnage levels in each bracket are much closer in performance it to the two highest levels in the bracket below them. It's extremely obvious with the heavy/assault, where 70 to 85 tonne mechs have almost the same free tonnage with a walk of 4 and a standard engine, but the same is true that the other bracket splits as well. The real divisions are:
Ultra-light: 20 & 25 tonnes
Light: 30 to 45 tonnes
Medium: 50 to 65 tonnes
Heavy: 70 to 85 tonnes
Assault: 90 to 100 tonnes
I am 90% sure that I have built the exact diagram that the mechwarrior has in the past, but I think I lost it a couple of computer changes in the past. Fat heavies are 100% a real thing, and often can be extreme good mechs. A 70 to 85 tonne mech with a 4 walk is often the base of my battle lines. I tend to refer to them as Mechs of the Line.
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u/Havok038 Clan KoalaBear Jul 23 '26
80t assault mechs have more significance in lore due to the expense and labor required to construct compared to 90 and 100tonners. In the succession era, this was crucial as the number of remaining plants that could repair and build 85-100tons could only be counted by finger digits. 240 and 320 pitban engines which these weight class run were also the most commonly available to interchange between mechs and vehicles. In the later advanced eras where weight saving materials and advance technology make the heavier and lighter classes more flexible. 80 tons is just a number. The Zeus, awesome, hatamoto and the victor stand as the most common battlemechs of this weight class.
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u/Chaos_Anon Jul 23 '26
IDK where it stands but the Zeus with the 3 SRM 6s always makes me feel like doom guy when using it. I guess functions within heavy combat roles but has DPR closer to a heavy but it used used to literally assault and it's feels like a mini atlas on the table top. What would you guys see it as?
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u/Sumbelpop Jul 23 '26
Gosh, I hate that kind of neurohelmet! 💁 80s....I dont know. Last thing I tried was the all too slow Sunder. Despite piloting a Victor for myself once in a while or the PPK awesome for a lancemate, I boxed or sold all my 80Tonners.
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u/AGBell64 Jul 23 '26
The sunder is 90 tons, no 80.
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u/Sumbelpop Jul 23 '26
Oh thanks, it is indeed. Okay sorry, my bad - must have misread it Yesterday. 🫣 And I was like: "God is it awfully slow for its tonnage... and why have I already reached the maximum tonnage for this mission?...🥲
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u/Norrikan Jul 23 '26
I don't get it. Is the complaint here that a 80-tonner isn't like a 100-ton brick of armor and guns? Because, yeah, no shit. But the 80-ton bracket is littered with excellent mechs – Thug, Awesome, Warlord, Warhammer IIC, Phoenix Hawk IIC and Gargoyle just off the top of my head.
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u/AGBell64 Jul 23 '26
The joke is that the unfortunate mechwarrior though he was purchasing an Awesome and got a Zeus instead. There's a lot of 80 tonners that are fine but could functionally be rebuilt as 75 tonners and lose basically nothing except a point of kick damage.
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u/goodbodha Jul 23 '26
80 ton mechs due to build mechanics make for terrible 4/6 mechs. Usually the 4/6 versions are feel like they are light on armor or firepower sometimes both. The 3/5 versions are ideally support mechs to fill out an assault lance led by a 100 tonner.
Here is the cheat sheet for optimal assault mechs using basic tech. If you want a cheap 3/5 support assault mech do 80 tons. If you want a 4/6 assault mech go with 85 tons. No other assault weight does 4/6 well. 85 doesn't necessarily do it great but they do it better than the others. If you want an all inclusive assault mech at 3/5 go 100 tons. If you want to save bv from those 100 ton designs cut weight anywhere from 85-95 tons but stay 3/5.
Where people go wrong is treating all assault mechs as assault mechs. Lump into 2 broad camps. The 4/6 camp and the 3/5 camp. 3/5 your short range stuff (king crab), long range stuff (awesome or longbow), or an all rounder (think atlas). 4/6 your either a brawler/bodyguard (think battlemaster) or a overweight heavy mech (think Zeus, victor, cyclops).
Fun fact the stock marauder, Zeus, and Victor all have 11.5 tons of armor while that stock cyclops only has 10. Meanwhile the stock battlemaster has 14.5 and a stock awesome has 15. Stock atlas has 19 tons and the stock stalker has 13.5 tons of armor.
If you think about it the battlemaster is very well armored for a 4/6 mech while a stalker is terrible for a 3/5. The cyclops is light on armor vs 75 ton mechs in the 4/6 movement profile that have 15 tons less weight.
The optimal weights in the game are 20, 35, 55, 75, and 100 tons. You can make good mechs at other weights but I highly recommend comparing any mech that isn't at an optimal weight against the 2 nearest ideal weights. Ask yourself which weight is that mech wanting to fight and what does it do better than them and what does it do worse?
As an example I love the stock battlemaster. It's not great at long range and will take a beating if you stay in the open while closing the distance, but if you can get up close without getting pounded you will easily wreck most heavy mechs pretty fast. However I would worry about sending my battlemaster against an awesome over an open field and I would worry about fighting an atlas with it. I believe it's best suited as a quasi bodyguard mech for the support assault mechs in an assault lance or as a brawler in a heavy lance. As a bodyguard it can toss the occasional ppc shot, but it shines hustling around to cover you from flank attackers. As the brawler in a heavy lance it's basically just throwing its weight around vs heavy mechs and trying to get good use out of those medium lasers and srm6.
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u/AGBell64 Jul 24 '26
The 75-85 tons have identical payload spaces with an SFE. The primary reason the BM is so much "better" than something like the victor or zeus is because it packs on a lot of incredibly weight efficient guns.
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u/Shower_Floaties Jul 30 '26
80 tons is one of the sweet spots, there's so many good ones
The Awesome, Thug, Warhammer IIC immediately come to mind
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u/Master-M-Master Capellan Comrade Jul 22 '26
I find the 80 ton range crazy. The Awesome is one of the best bang for buck 80 tonners, looks cool and just a very good mech.
Meanwhile, take the Zeus as a comparision which I never got them to feel or work well.