136
u/PsyavaIG Magistracy of Canopus May 07 '26
Armored Core used to be Stomp
I FUCKING KNEW IT. I loved the original trilogy and when I bought and tried AC6 I didn't like the modern gameplay
113
u/AxitotlWithAttitude May 07 '26
Ac6 was actually considered a step down in speed by the community, but that's because AC4A and other games were completely bonkers.
26
u/Diam0ndTalbot May 07 '26
5 was also stomp
47
u/Top-Session-3131 May 07 '26
Nah, for all that the gen5 ACs were way clunkier than the 4s, having wall jumping as an explicit tactic pretty much defined them as zoom.
17
9
11
u/AntaresDestiny May 08 '26
Considering that a well piloted Gen5 can move faster than everything except a ACFA next, no it was not.
3
u/DM_Voice May 08 '26
‘Zoom’ is not the same thing as ‘moves fast’.
It is the style of movement that defines ‘zoom’.
Do your mecha pull off hyper speed power slides, wall-runs, acrobatic vaults, or other similar moves? Zoom.
Do your mechs mimic normal human range of movement or less? Stomp.
6
7
u/No_Mud_5999 May 08 '26
The AC game I had on my PS2 was definitely zoom! That shit would give you motion sickness in duels!
3
16
u/Attaxalotl #1 ProtoMech Fan May 07 '26
They changed it with 4, went back in 5, and are zoom again in 6
29
u/AKoolPopTart May 07 '26
I think the only thing I dont like in 6 is the stagger system, but i cannot express to you how fucking much I love everything else. Story made me cry, characters were unique and memorable, music made me hyped the whole time, mech design is my second favorite to what was in 5th Gen,
15
u/ZakkaryGreenwell May 07 '26
I've heard quite a few people say they dislike the stagger system, but I utterly Adore that part of the gameplay! It feels like your perfectly choreographed opportunity to deal some serious damage, and you get to control when that happens as a result of how much pressure you put on your enemy.
Why do you dislike it?
9
u/AKoolPopTart May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26
In multiplayer, It limits what you can bring to a fight based on the impact stat, so most matches will boil down to who can stagger who first and how much damage can they dish out in under 3 seconds. It's not as bad as 5th Gen which straight up forced you to use whatever the meta was at the time, but its still limiting.
18
u/gyrobot May 08 '26
It's based on Sekiro's stagger system and the fact a lot of the melee attacks feel like souls style melee combined with the stagger system has ruined it for people.
Plus no in built weapon arms or true long ranged guns like sniper cannons/rifles
9
u/ZakkaryGreenwell May 08 '26
The lack of Arms-Which-Are-Also-Weapons do definitely hurt, and the lack of extended range weaponry could've been improved upon, I fully admit both of those are true.
But, the stagger system being based on Sekiro's stagger bar, and the Melee feeling Dark Souls inspired, I don't really get why that makes people dislike them.
I've only beaten For Answer and 6, but melee in 6 feels so much more polished and defined. In FA you kinda just boost at your target and swing at about the same time, it felt a little weightless. But I felt like it was more than made up for with its crushing damage output, you could stomp an AC in just 3 or 4 good hits.
In 6, they just feel better to use though. They're a little more distinct between each other too. Like how all Melee weapons in 6 can charge up for a stronger attack, and all of them have variations on their attack animations. Your basic sword can sweep once or twice, or charge up for a single big slash. The Laser Dagger does a whole bunch of slashes, the stun baton can do a delayed blast, the Pile Bunker will do all of the damage but has abysmal range, and the Chainsaw just looks really fucking cool!
Honestly, some of the Melee Weapons in AC6 feel like a somewhat refined and scaled back take on the Overed Weapons from 5th Gen. They don't have anywhere near the same visceral, earth shattering, PUNCH of something like the Grind Blade. But they are a lot easier to use and don't require anywhere near the same commitment if you want to try them out for a mission. That being said, I really do wish AC6 had something as batshit insane as removing one of your own arms to swing An Even Bigger Sword.
1
u/gyrobot May 08 '26
It's one of those contested ideas, personally I am glad the melee in 6 has been expanded to feel like a modern mecha game and the only thing missing from it was a true physical blade like the murakumo from AC5
2
u/DamnITBreaker Jun 03 '26
Hi. I know this is a 26 days old post. But Weapon Arms were going to be in the game, alongside Auxiliary Boosters, which would replace your back mounts. I think the ultimate reason why such systems were removed, were to tighten up gameplay to focus more on quick movement. The game already uses EVERY button on a controller to the point that you need combined inputs, so it would be difficult to add on to that. As for the lack of long range weapons, the best I can give you is a lore excuse where it's pointed out that close quarters combat was much more in favor than long distance firing. With that form of fighting being deemed outdated.
11
u/Dysthymiccrusader91 May 07 '26
Armored core 2 my go to build was literally tank treads and rocket Arma. Zoom? More like BOOM
3
u/blade_m May 08 '26
Its actually not true. AC 1 was totally ZOOM! You just had to be good enough to get there!
For people less good or newer to the game, it seemed very much like STOMP, but the ZOOM was next level...
0
u/Trilkk May 08 '26
I bought and tried AC6 I didn't like the modern gameplay
AC4 and AC4FA went even faster than AC6 does. AC4 is for XBox360, from 2006, 20 years ago.
It's not "modern" gameplay, Armored Core going Zoom can buy hard liquor.
108
u/SashaKemper May 07 '26
I'd love for LAMs to be balanced so I could have a little zoom with my stomp.
67
u/garaks_tailor May 08 '26
Unfortunately even if given better rules their true strength lays in a game mode 99.997% of games will never achieve.
Grand Strategic Campaign
Like 15+ years ago I played a 3v3 clanners vs spheroids campaign and we threw in all the rules. Had excel sheets and everything. Lasted almost 9 months. What was really cool is everyone was in character. The clanners hated the LAMs
I brought a reinforced lance of 6 wasp LAMs. They where a constant thorn in the sides of the clans. The single most decisive unit in the game. Attacked backlines and supply lines, units under repair, general specials forces shenanigans, and acting as cavalry on several occasions.
Forced the clans to assign precious mechwarriors to guard "latrines" or my lams would bomb em and shoot em up. It really put a dent in the tempo of their operations. At one point their were multiple groups hunting the lams specifically
42
u/EvelynnCC May 08 '26
Thinking about it, that sort of campaign is probably a lot more viable today with megamek and discord...
9
8
u/Tasty-Fox9030 May 08 '26
Exactly. That's great that you did it. The campaigns you could write with those...
3
39
u/TheManyVoicesYT MechWarrior (editable) May 07 '26
Play VTOLs. Very zoom. Tbh even most light mechs are very very quick.
17
6
3
34
u/Dysthymiccrusader91 May 07 '26
Armored core did indeed used to be stomp but is now zoom
3
u/blade_m May 08 '26
Naw, it was always zoom (or at least the end level/hidden gear). A Zoomy AC trumped a Stompy one by a country mile...
16
30
u/Altar_Quest_Fan May 07 '26 edited May 08 '26
Okay so admittedly I’ve only played the first AC game (actually just the demo disc that came packed w/ the PS1 back in ‘97 lol). But my impression was that AC was definitely meant to be Zoom. Like you could have your mech jump, zip, and zoom across the battlefield etc. Sure, BattleTech has jumpjets but that’s different for reasons that I can’t be arsed to expl—squirrel!
12
13
u/MissAvian May 07 '26
Oh my god I used this template to explain the difference between real and super Robo to a friend of mine recently, didn't put any of the text the image but it was to get the idea across
1
11
u/Packasus Unseriously serious May 07 '26
Me, who made infinite flight builds in old Armored Core games: AC used to be stomp?
18
u/Attaxalotl #1 ProtoMech Fan May 07 '26
Actually, flight alone does not necessarily make one zoom.
5
u/blade_m May 08 '26
Naw, but in AC 1 and 2, a sufficiently zoomy AC was basically unhittable when playing against someone using a slower build (like tank treads), or against a less experienced player...
27
10
u/BagsYourMail May 07 '26
Gundam started out stomp, but beam weapons made it turn into zoom
15
u/MrCookie2099 May 07 '26
Gundam in space is all zoom.
5
u/BagsYourMail May 08 '26
Armor was still viable tho. Beam weapons made all armor useless and everything is made of paper
2
u/MrCookie2099 May 08 '26
Partially the beam weapons, partially the Minovsky particle that makes the fights at knife range, part Mobile Suits being crazy maneuverable in space combat.
3
u/BagsYourMail May 08 '26
Battletech also has ECM forcing combat close, but Battletech still has viable armor. If there was a one shot weapon like beams, everybody would be in light mechs with jump jets. It would play out exactly like Gundam
2
u/MrCookie2099 May 08 '26
ECM is a choice to include in Battletech, the Minovsky particle devices are universal in Gundam.
Gundam ground fighting does not have a lot of one shoting, most fights start at range and tend to end in melee combat.
3
u/BagsYourMail May 08 '26
ECM is universal in Battletech. That's the reason why combat is so close
1
u/DericStrider May 08 '26
^^this 100%, to add to this, the battlefield in Battletrch is covered in all sorts of basic ECM (heat bafflers, radar cancellation, tech not yet invented yet etc), that's why equipment like Beagle Active Probe and TAG exist, they are super powered systems weighing a ton or more to cut though the fog to sense hidden objects or get a clear target.
3
u/ArelMCII Filthy Cappy Apologist May 08 '26
The Zudah didn't even have beam weapons and was prone to fatal overdoses of zoom.
2
u/knightmechaenjo lam with the plan! May 08 '26
I absolutely love Gundam nonetheless!
We stan all Mechs in this household
2
u/Manae May 08 '26
A lot of Gundam (UC, at least) has a weird almost time-dilation sort of thing based upon frame of reference. Mech-scale is fairly consistently depicted as being pretty zoomy, but with that same consistency any time the view switches to someone outside of a mobile suit the mechs are rather slow and stompy.
16
u/ElectricPaladin Knight of Canopus May 07 '26
Heavy Gear is Zoom. Most of the mechs have built in roller-skates for crying out loud, and most of the ones that don't have roller-skates have hover jet feet instead. Zoom.
29
u/Saansilt Comguard May 07 '26
Heavy Gear is Votoms as its DNA. It looks zoom but is stomp
7
u/ElectricPaladin Knight of Canopus May 07 '26
I guess? I think it looks pretty stomp but involves a lot of zoom.
14
u/Saansilt Comguard May 07 '26
Ah there in is the rub. Speedy stomp.
10
2
u/TheyHungre May 08 '26
Do they travel significantly faster than other vehicles are capable of? I'm not super familiar with the setting, but what little I've seen indicates that they seem to move at similar speeds as battlemechs. Then again, they're smaller, so it would probably /feel/ a lot faster to a gear pilot than a mech warrior
10
u/Arbor96 May 08 '26
I want more discussion about heavy gear and don’t care if we are zoom or stomp!!
3
3
u/Wantitneeditgetit May 08 '26
Did you spend more time modding your mechs then actually playing missions like I did?
2
u/Arbor96 May 08 '26
So embarrassed to say this, but I have never played! I’m building a complete 2nd army because I have no one that plays near me!!
5
u/Wantitneeditgetit May 08 '26
Oh man, I was talking about the video game. Heavy Gear and Earthsiege were the first two mech games I ever played. I rented them from the Chinese video store in the 90s and burned them to CD because this was in that sweet spot of copy protection being more of a polite request not to since burners were pretty rare still.
7
u/TheManyVoicesYT MechWarrior (editable) May 07 '26
Battletech has plenty of mechs that run in excess of 100 KPH. Plenty of zoom there too.
11
u/StarFlicker May 08 '26
That's like, what, just under the speed limit on an interstate? Meaning if those mechs were traveling up I-95, they'd all be in the slow lane getting honked at.
I wouldn't consider mecha in the zoom category unless it could get pulled over by a state trooper 😄
8
u/TheManyVoicesYT MechWarrior (editable) May 08 '26
I mean 120+Kph is a Locust. That's around 80 MPH, which is pretty damn fast. Theres a few mechs like the Phantom that zoom at more like 140 kph.
6
u/Warmag2 May 08 '26
Firemoth runs at around 160 km/h.
Locust has non-introtech variants which are much faster like the 6M which goes more than 200 km/h and can burst close to 300 km/h. A supercar can still keep up, but regular cars cannot.
This still does not make Battletech zoom.
4
May 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/Warmag2 May 08 '26
It's more than that, I think. The comic is talking about the spirit and aesthetics of the respective fictional universes, which then define expectation of what a mech is and what its capabilities are. Franchises like Dougram, Votoms and Battletech are much more grounded in reality and present more believable machines than the others mentioned here. And yes, I know they actually aren't realistic, but there is orders of magnitude of difference compared to AC and Gundam, where mechs are both much bigger and much faster.
Macross initially seems to be in-between, because its destroids have approximately the same sizes and capabilities as mechs in BT, but it also heavily focuses on LAMs and aerial combat. The walking mechs are the mooks of the universe and it is much more about zooming around.
You can probably find counterexamples in each of these universes, of course, but it doesn't make a zoom universe become stomp or a stomp universe become zoom.
3
May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
5
u/Warmag2 May 08 '26
Well yes, but also no. My use of "realistic" as a word was slightly misguided, because you immediately attached a value relation to it.
It's more that zoom universes are much more about high-scifi, where the technology level is higher. Gundam is all about superweapons and megastructures, and every structure in the background of AC6 is like ten kilometers high. Stomp universes are the opposite, where technology level and the capabilities of humanity are much closer to what we already have.
There is layers in this, of course. Gundam in general does not have interstellar travel, while BT does, but megastructures aren't much of a thing in BT, on the other hand, as it is cheaper and simpler to find a planet and live there.
You can compare this to something else. Fantasy universes could be "zap" or "clink", for example, where "zap" universes have a lot of magic and "clink" universes are closer to historical fiction where steel meets steel.
For example, in Clark Aston Smith's stories, if a wizard wants someone dead, they still draw their sword, but in Dragonlance or Slayers, the characters start flinging fireballs. CAS is clink. Conan is clink. Dragonlance and Slayers are definitely zap. LotR seems like zap but is probably actually clink. Game of Thrones really wants to be clink, but ends up zapping a lot anyway.
If this doesn't sit well with you, I don't really know what to say anymore. To me, that comic is spot-on and what it is saying immediately clicked.
4
u/StarFlicker May 08 '26
Sure, there are some mechs that go kinda fast. Not fast by race car standards, but kinda fast. But the average mech, either 4/6 or 5/8 speed profile, can run like 40-50 miles per hour. Which means they can't pass cars on the interstate.
The point isn't that there aren't any fast mechs, there are some, it's the Battletech is, generally, not a speedy, dodgy, flashy mecha universe. It is, by and large, a slow-plodding, stompy sub genre.
5
u/Tutezaek May 08 '26
A special variant of the Fireball, the Firebal-XF or Extra-Fast, could reach over 400km/h... at that speed i'm in doubt a state trooper could pull you over... specially since you're piloting a 20 ton robot.
5
3
u/HamsterOnLegs May 08 '26
Can they have both and then do graffiti while listening to funky futuristic beats?
3
u/ElectricPaladin Knight of Canopus May 08 '26
Both roller-skate feet and hover jet feet?
I don't see why not, but Heavy Gear doesn't have that kind of granularity, so you can't go in there and make a unit that does that.
You can have jump jets, though. They don't jump as high as they do in BattleTech, but they're helpful for clearing obstacles. And I've seen hovering units with those, walking units with those, and roller-skating units with those, so... that kind of counts.
And you can definitely do graffiti in a gear, they have much better fine motor control than mechs.
2
u/HamsterOnLegs May 08 '26
I know a little bit about the lore. I played a bit of Heavy Gear 2, and even found (and promptly purchased) an old metal mini back in the late 90s. I just wanted to make a Jet Set Radio reference. :)
6
u/hallucination9000 May 07 '26
Armored Core has kind of been deciding between zoom and stomp recently.
5
u/LeiningensAnts May 07 '26
The first three Armored Cores on the PS1 were a mix of stomp and zoom, then Armored Core 2 on the PS2 added the overboost mechanic which was literally pure zoom. It has always had potential for both, though. Tank legs!
6
u/jitterscaffeine May 08 '26
Don’t see many mentions of Heavy Gear these days
4
u/GaracaiusCanadensis May 08 '26
I loved the lore of the world so much, I secretly throw the world into a lot of my science fiction settings in the event that we need a diversion.
3
u/RangerKarl May 08 '26
Heavy Gear 3 was announced recently, but it's so early in pre-prod nothing is really confirmed
1
5
u/KillerOkie It's Okay to be Capellan May 08 '26
So the super robot genre subdivides into... silly fun times and apocalyptic I suppose.
3
u/TheyHungre May 08 '26
Is that really any different from 1980's space samurai and the space-phone company nuking each other over a space-austro-hungarian library containing the lost secrets to build original Gameboy sized walky talkies with frequent breaks to polish their pit-vipers?
Silly and apocalyptic are often as not two sides of the same coin
Edit: damn autocorrect
6
u/YourLocalHellspawn Addicted to the MW4 PPC screech May 08 '26
I think this is the first time that one of these memes made complete sense to me at first glance.
7
u/Warmag2 May 08 '26
This is one of the best posts made to this subreddit that I remember reading, and I've been here for something like 15 years.
This should be archived.
1
u/TheyHungre May 08 '26
Wholly agreed. This is truly a defining question for the genre, and this post breaks it down perfectly.
4
u/ItzAlphaWolf HRT Online, Blahaj Online, Beauty Online. May 07 '26
Have you seen the Jump Jets in Clans WoT? That's zoom right there
3
3
3
3
u/BuckeyeBentley May 08 '26
They do not think it be like it is but it do. - Clan Cloud Cobra proverb
2
2
u/DericStrider May 08 '26
for UC Gundam, it's still stomp for most part. the zoom only really applies to space combat. Wing and Gundam G are Super Robots, while SEED and other AU are Zoom
2
u/TheyHungre May 08 '26
A point I would add regarding not just real vs super but between stomp and zoom is verisimmilitude. Do crazy things seemingly not allowed by established rules of the universe crop up? Probably not Stomp. Even the realest of the Zooms end up with some units possessing insane leaps in capability over other units. Stomps get a little better over time.
2
2
2
u/The_Forgotten_Two eighty-five tons of ass kicking May 07 '26
i think because of how broad battletech is it's not fair to put it in either subcategory. mechwarrior? stomp. D.C Bruins and (much of) Duane Loose's works? i feel like that falls in zoom.
6
u/Axtdool MechWarrior (editable) May 08 '26
Not really.
Like most zoom got mechs that routinely move at least at high way speeds or outright fly.
Many Battletech mechs would annoy truckers here in Germany with how slow they would be on the streets.
1
May 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/Axtdool MechWarrior (editable) May 08 '26
Keep in mind, 80kph is as fast as trucks are legaly allowed to go here. And they tend to not keep to that and still annoy everyone else on the road by being slow.
Plenty of people do twice that in their ratty family Vans.
And sure one of outliers exist, but most light mechs tend to top out around the 120-130 kph range. Which is the recommended speed to Drive on the Autobahn. Not really all that zoomy.
1
May 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Axtdool MechWarrior (editable) May 08 '26
Zoomy are settings where BT Lights are kinda left in the dust or things can't take a hit as well as BT lights and need to dodge.
1
u/TheyHungre May 08 '26
I'd say it comes down to whether the legs are there primarily for locomotion, or whether they're just landing gear for primary flight/demi-flight movement. Sure some mechs have jump jets, but I would argue that hopping around isn't the same as pure flight.
LAMs being rare and rather impractical is a bit of a nod to that
1
u/ChicagoThrowaway422 May 08 '26
I take it to mean the fluidity of motion more than the raw speed achieved.
If it moves like a Gundam - zoom. If it moves like a James Cameron movie robot - stomp.
1
u/odessahasfallen May 07 '26
Where do you put transformers?
11
u/Plastic-Mongoose9924 May 07 '26
Since they're Kami?
Super Robot.
1
u/MrCookie2099 May 07 '26
I'm sorry, could you explain that one? Has this been some sort of offical statement as to the nature of their Spark?
3
u/HMS_Exeter 71st Light Horse Regiment (White Horse Regiment) May 07 '26
Probably zoom considering how many of them can fly (even ones with no jet alt mode if you go back to G1)
3
u/Malkryst May 07 '26
But Dinobots stomp 🤣
1
3
u/Diam0ndTalbot May 07 '26
Zoom, since they’re cars and planes. Combiners and titans are stomp though.
2
1
u/JunkaTron69 Weapons: somewhere Bank: empty Morality: flexible May 07 '26
I do love a good stomping.
1
u/TheBlackCat13 May 07 '26
What separates real robot from super robot?
16
u/Attaxalotl #1 ProtoMech Fan May 07 '26
Would the power of friendship make your gun shoot harder?
If yes, probably super robot; if no, probably real robot.
11
u/Sentenal_ May 07 '26
The line between the two can become blurred, but my take on it is that "Super Robots" are portrayed sort of like Super Heroes (where the super power is the robot), while "Real Robots" are portrayed more as tools or vehicles.
Like in Gundam or Battletech, the mechs are basically combat vehicles. But then you take Mazinger Z or Pacific Rim, and they are basically like Super Heroes fighting against an evil scientist or against monsters trying to destroy the world, and only [titular robot] can stop them
6
u/ArelMCII Filthy Cappy Apologist May 08 '26
Like in Gundam or Battletech, the mechs are basically combat vehicles.
Depends on the Gundam show. UC? Yeah, they're usually combat vehicles, at least until everyone important has a full psycho-frame that melts the universe. (Unicorn's so fucking cool omg.) IBO? Yeah, they're combat vehicles. G-Witch? Grunt suits are combat vehicles, Gundams are super robots. Wing? It varies, but usually closer to the super robot side, especially EW. G Gundam? That shit's straight-up wuxia, so you'd better believe it's super robot.
Then there's SD, Build Fighters/Divers, and the Breaker ONAs, but I don't know if you want to count them.
4
u/Sentenal_ May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26
I'd agree on G Gundam, but not the rest. The rest they are still portrayed in utilitarian manner, even Unicorn/G-Witch/Wing. The way I see it, its not about their combat power, what sort of abilities they have, or how outlandish the tech is, its about tone and how they are used in the story. Take Gunbuster for example. Gunbuster goes out of its way to make its technology and the science behind it seem grounded, but then it drops a Super Inazuma Kick and all sorts of attack calling as Gunbuster wipes out Space Monsters, and you can tell its not the same sort of show as VOTOMs or Dougram.
I mentioned there is some blurring of lines, like with how in Wing the Gundam Pilots are practically put on the pedestal of a super hero, but I don't think it changes the nature of the show overall.
I do enjoy some of the Build series, but I don't really think grouping anime about playing with models or playing video games really falls into the same topic here.
3
u/RagnarokSamurai May 08 '26
The thing is there was never a real line to begin with.
The categorization began WITH Super Robot Wars needing to separate the units for the sake of gameplay. But if you look at actual mecha shows there is no clean divide.
Gasaraki mechs themselves are extremely non fantastical, but they were made by analyzing magical samurai armors and replicating their shape with modern technology.
Gunbuster flies around space, single handedly wipes out fleets while its pilots loudly shout its attack names, but in universe it's made with completely conventional technology and is little more than the sum total of humanity's weapons development--and then ends up considered more or less obsolete technologically, just carried by some legendary pilots!
G Gundam also is brought up and yeah it's straight up wuxia, but in terms of the in universe mechanics any country with the capability to build mobile fighters can make machines capable of that. In and of themselves they aren't anything special and some are even bad, like Nether Gundam, due to low quality construction.
Even Battletech, grounded as it is, ultimately has Battlemechs wearing basically super armor that's superior to the vast majority of other one-man or crewed vehicles.
Putting these arbitrary labels on them never paints the full picture of what's actually going on inside.
3
u/Sentenal_ May 08 '26
I don't disagree with what you are saying. You can't really pigeonhole pieces of media into a specific category. Real vs Super isn't something to be adhered to religiously, but that said, it occasionally can be a useful tool for discussion.
2
u/DagonG2021 May 08 '26
Pacific Rim is Real Robot, the Jaegers are portrayed as military tech with an emphasis on looking and feeling real.
5
u/Sentenal_ May 08 '26
Pacific Rim has way more in common with things like Getter Robo and Mazinger Z than it does with something like Gundam or Macross. Something nominally being "military" doesn't make something Real Robot, and if it did then stuff like Ideon, Gunbuster, and Getter Robo would be Real Robot
8
u/MrCookie2099 May 07 '26
Much Super Robot handwaves the engineering or says "a space wizard" did it, where most real robot fiction will put some amount of lipservice to design, manufacturing, and physical law.
2
u/knightmechaenjo lam with the plan! May 08 '26
I'm going to mention said power source could be things like
"literal evolution energy that may or may not be sapient" (getter robo)
Literal hope energy (mazinger z sometimes)
Literal Biofuel and the soul of a parental figure merged with an Eldritch monster (evaongelion)
I really like watching Mecha anime what can I say 😅
1
u/Sentenal_ May 07 '26
What would you consider Gunbuster?
2
u/MrCookie2099 May 07 '26
Haven't watched it. Judging by a few screenshots, seems more Real Robot. The cockpit looks like a cockpit instead of a very elaborate throne.
1
u/Alwryn May 08 '26
Gunbuster is harder scifi than most real robot. There is some element of spirit overcoming dispair, but even that is more about shaking off fear than powering up cause of friends. Diebuster might be Super Robot though.
1
u/Sentenal_ May 08 '26
It is indeed pretty hard scifi, but I don't consider that to be a factor one way or another.
This discussion has shown me how differently everyone views the terms, so at this point I think I'm just going to default back to how SRW defines them
3
u/RhesusFactor Orbital Drop Coordinator, 36th Lyran Guard RCT May 07 '26
All the Japanese singing.
4
u/TheBlackCat13 May 07 '26
Macross is almost as much about Japanese singing as it is about robots but the comic labeled it as "real robot".
3
u/RhesusFactor Orbital Drop Coordinator, 36th Lyran Guard RCT May 08 '26
I am Calvin in this argument.
2
u/Trilkk May 08 '26
It's a bit more complicated.
Mechs in Macross are, for the most part, real robo. Even if the setting features variable VTOL mecha, those also exist in battletech as LAMs. Might defy some reason, but the universe does try to establish them as real, tangible vehicles that need maintenance and that can only do things within their technological limits.
Macross itself? Absolutely not real. The power of j-pop changing the future of the universe? Magic. Insectoid space fauna that responds to singing? Magic. Girl band with skirt rocket boosters countering berserk syndrome with idol pop? Magic.
That's actually the exact appeal of Macross. No matter what happens, it can be solved with cool mecha fighters and catchy pop tunes. All enemies eventually turn friends. There's no interest in gritty realism or mirroring contemporary political struggles, the most you can get is some romance drama (arguably best executed in the original '82-'83 series). Despite everything that has happened, the whole of humanity is living their best life. This is all part of the Macross mythos, because it absolutely is a mythical story in the truest sense of the word.
Note: Macross is also one of the scifi universes you can look and say "heck, I could live there". It's 0% edgy, it's just trying to be fun.
1
1
u/ChromiumPants May 08 '26
I partake in in both subcultures of stomp and zoom but I can't think of any super robots besides transformers.
1
1
u/NullcastR2 May 08 '26
Is 08th MS Team stomp?
2
u/Kenway May 08 '26
It is. Gundam has series that are stomp and some that are zoom. Depends. Usually stuff on earth is stomp.
1
1
u/Purity_the_Kitty May 08 '26
Correct, though I think the "walking tank" exaggeration of BT being that visually slow mostly comes from the limitations of the early Mechwarrior games. I'd love to see more movement like early Armored Core and the Hired Steel series. Given how fast a fight plays out in tabletop Battletech, those stompy bois still have to be pretty agile.
2
u/gyrobot May 08 '26
MW5 having wasd control allowed me to reach zoom speeds with my spider decked to the gills with jumpjets, partial wing and a supercharger/masc suite that turned into a 300kph nimble 1st gen ac
1
1
u/NullcastR2 May 08 '26
Patlabor: Extra stompy.
Dai Guard: A stompy super robot show, extra stompy. So stompy that it adds screen shake when it's moves in SRW titles.
1
1
1
1
u/Attempt_Gold Callsign: Duster Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
Original Steel Battalion is a blend of stomp and zoom at the extremes. Vertical Tanks are very stomp-y and cumbersome without any upward mobility but you can perform zoom-esque sidesteps and Line of Contact replaced fifth gear with a wheeled mode to get around the multiplayer battlefields quickly.
1
u/MadCatMkV Green Ghosts May 08 '26
No, the giant robot Fandom is split into mech and mecha. Battletech is mech, Dougram is mecha. Titanfall and Heavy Gear are also mech, Armored Core was always mecha
2
u/Cykeisme May 08 '26
Can you describe the key features of your two categories, without pointing to examples?
4
May 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/TheyHungre May 08 '26
I would disagree that BT has zoom - LAMs are a great example of zoom falling apart in somewhat more realistic settings.
Agree on the rest though. It doesn't matter where the writers came from or call things. It matters how the robots are portrayed and used. If I paint a real life main battle tank in bright colors and pics of waifus, it's still just a tank with all the strengths and weaknesses thereof
4
u/ChicagoThrowaway422 May 08 '26
Blasphemy. My ratty civic has no weaknesses because I covered it in manga porn stickers and feel no shame being seen in public that way.
5
1
May 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/TheyHungre May 08 '26
I would disagree that the ability to hop around counts as zoom. LAMs kinda go there, but they're kinda hampered by the realities of trying to make a tank that can turn into a plane and not fall apart just from moving around
1
u/ChicagoThrowaway422 May 08 '26
The books are slightly more zoom than the video games. They move more human-like in the books. The video games are all stomp.
And you don't get any spinning-levitation-starburst transformations during a powerup anywhere in BT.
1
u/ChicagoThrowaway422 May 08 '26
I had no idea about stomp and zoom, but it immediately makes sense. Thank you.
I hate zoom. I don't want a giant robot to move like a samurai. We already have samurai. I want a giant robot to move like a robot.
2
u/knightmechaenjo lam with the plan! May 08 '26
Then by that logic we don't need stomp we have tanks
I guess it just comes to taste
2
u/ChicagoThrowaway422 May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26
There is no logic to it. It is just taste. I can't help what I like and what I dislike.
And I like stomp.
Edit: and not even all stomp. I prefer stuff that looks like it came from a James Cameron movie. Some of the BT mech designs are idiotic to my eye.
140
u/Diligent_Layer_7748 May 07 '26
I HATE how I understood this precisely and immediately