r/Utah • u/ReporterMacyLipkin • 1d ago
News UTA wants to raise fares. Utahns wonder why transit can’t be free instead
https://www.kuer.org/politics-government/2026-10-12/uta-fare-increase-public-comment-free-transitI've seen folks on here wondering why UTA isn't free, so here's what I found.
34
u/Temporary_Objective 1d ago
You know what would get me on the bus and train? If they actually ran where I need to go. I live in Saratoga. There’s one (1) bus route that takes me to a train station. It runs 3 times in the morning, stopping before 8 AM. Walking to that bus stop takes FIFTY TWO minutes. I could drive 7 minutes to the bus stop…or 15 minutes total to the station.
And I understand the burden of planning. I do. UTA is working with miserable amounts of money. But when I emailed them asking “hey, on this very restricted bus route, it’d be really cool if you added a stop here, already on the route this bus takes,” I learned that they’ll bring it up for the next Change Day. That’s next August. It’s so frustrating.
I don’t miss student housing in Provo, but WOW I miss the bus access. I drive everywhere now because I have to.
13
u/theyyg 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is also why I don't take UTA. Even as a student when I rode from Ogden to the University of Utah, it was more economic time-wise to just drive. Fortunately, I had homework that I could do.
For me it was a 15 minute drive to get to front runner. If I drove the whole way, it was 45 minutes. Buses existed from near my neighborhood, but they were late or didn't show 40% of the time. I'd miss the front runner and have to wait on the platform for 30-60 minutes. Then, it was another 30 minutes on the train, 10-15 minutes waiting fire the next bus, and another 15-30 minutes riding the bus to campus.
Now it's a 40 minute drive just to get to frontrunner. It's input 5-15 minutes more to get everywhere I need to.
Reliability and reach of serviced areas are the biggest obstacles for me using it.
9
u/uhhhhhhhh_nope 21h ago
Utah County could get improved access, but they refuse to raise the tax rate/allocate tax money for the expansion.
Utah as a whole doesn't fund things to benefit the public, and UTA is a public transit service.
2
86
u/0ttr 1d ago
the state needs to build out the rail network. would be nice if Frontrunner came every 20 minutes. I know thats planned but imagine if highway buildouts took as long as transit. I get reminded every rush hour why I prefer the train. I take it most days.
37
16
u/SpaceGangsta Bountiful 1d ago
The plan is to have front runner go from Brigham City to Nephi. I think having the ability to skip a car commute from those distances would majorly increase ridership as well as help affordability. Because if you can work in SLC and live in Nephi and not drive two hours each way it will open housing supply even more.
I grew up in Chicago and lived in Naperville for awhile(been in Utah 15 years). But the Metra stop in Naperville was the third farthest from the city. During morning commutes there were express trains that were full at the third stop(Naperville) and ran all the way downtown without stopping. You would turn an hour drive without traffic(2 hours easy with) into a 40 minute train ride. Then you’d walk or hop on the L once downtown to get where you needed. I used it all the time to get downtown to hang out, party, etc. The only thing was the last train out was 12:33. So that meant if you missed it or were at a late concert, you just hung out at the sketchy 5am bars that existed back then to catch the 6:30 home. Haha.
2
-6
u/reParaoh 1d ago
So then you show up at the train station in brigham city or nephi... Then what? You think busses are bad in SLC?
138
u/tenisplenty 1d ago
Alot of buses and trains are mostly empty when I take them. That means they are too expensive. If it cost me $3 worth of gas or $5 worth of UTA tickets to go somewhere, why would UTA?
53
u/Longjumping-Car-8367 1d ago
I'm all about free transit, but I think time and availability play a much bigger role.
22
u/SpaceGangsta Bountiful 1d ago
That was my problem when I took public transit. It took me an hour twenty to get from home(bountiful) to work(Taylorsville). And I had to walk from bountiful blvd to Orchard to get the bus. It takes me 20-25 minutes with traffic to drive.
15
u/Fooftook 1d ago
Yep, they are going to have to run at at a MASSIVE negative for a long time in order to get a proper schedule and adoption for it to work. Just like every other major city with a good metro system. Metro is pointless if it’s not faster or at least more convenient than cars.
1
u/GornoUmaethiVrurzu 10h ago
Me too. Hour long commute on the bus for a 12 mile drive that takes 15 on my motorcycle or 45-50 on my ebike. Ebike is cheap, fun, healthy. I just take the ebike.
46
u/tzcw 1d ago edited 1d ago
People dont use buses because they dont design routes and allocate buses to given routes based on demand. No one like me is looking at a 2 hr bus ride to work vs a 15 minute drive and thinking “well if only the bus was free instead of $5 I would take it to work”. Those buses that would take me 2hrs to get to work are some of those buses that have hardly anyone on them. Meanwhile I would be willing to take the bus in the winter to go snowboarding if I was confident there were enough buses for me to actually be able to get a spot on one. If you want more people on public transit then UTA needs to structured in such a way that it is incentivized to get as many people on public transit as possible so that they get rid of buses on routes that hardly anyone is using, and allocating buses to routes for maximum ridership.
13
u/FrostyIcePrincess 1d ago
I get up at 5 am. I leave the house at 6:20 to get to my shift that starts at 7. I take my car to work.
If I took the bus/train I’d have to get up a lot earlier. Are the buses even running before 5 am?
4
34
u/spoilerdudegetrekt 1d ago edited 1d ago
If it cost me $3 worth of gas or $5 worth of UTA tickets to go somewhere, why would UTA?
If UTA takes 30-60 minutes more that might be a good reason to shell out an extra $2
Edit: I'm dislexic. My point still stands though. Time is very much a factor in people's choices too.
33
u/CharmingInterview986 1d ago
Time is by far the biggest factor imo. I used to take frontrunner from orem to slc relatively regularly for things like fan x sports games general down town things. We missed the train one time i said whatever ill just drive us up and pay for parking well get got there with decently heavy traffic almost 30 minutes before the train would have and since then ive never stepped foot back on the front runner. If i can get there when there is decent traffic still 30 minutes faster why would i take the train. They really need a like separate line that stops much less frequently but can actually get some speed going.
22
u/freaking_WHY 1d ago
I'm old enough to remember the parody of the old "Go UTA today!" commercial jingle: Wait all day and walk halfway, go UTA today!
My husband used to work in Utah County (we live in Davis.) He took Frontrunner to work to save wear and tear on a dying car. He was gone from home upwards of 16 hours a day, if he missed the bus connection from the office.
18
u/Important-Sea4605 1d ago
My commute to university is 30 minutes by car and 1 hour 15 minutes using frontrunner and one bus. I still use frontrunner a lot because I get a free UTA pass through school, but if I had to pay there’s just no way it would be worth it. It takes way too long, and if you’re not in Ogden or SLC then there usually just aren’t any useful routes. I would definitely pay for a pass if there were regular buses that went a lot of places with stops within 10 minutes of walking between it and my destination/home. As of now, it’s a 25 minute walk to the nearest bus stop from where I live, and it only has two buses that stop infrequently, neither of which go places I need to go.
13
u/rende36 1d ago
Rates of transit use can be affected by a ton of factors not just cost. For Utah I think the biggest barriers are likely perception, we think that uta transit won't be reliable or assume it's only for the "poor". I don't love that they're increasing fares but i don't think prohibitive costs are the largest issue uta faces
3
u/Dizzy_Tax574 1d ago
This is huge factor you look at cache valley. Their model does so much good it lowers traffic provides businesses access to customers and employees. Helps many low income and youth get around.
But by being free it's more regularly used and able to consistently be on time.
In many ways the running government like a business or doing bare minimum. Results in little public good for greater cost.
2
u/Squirtle_Splash_8413 1d ago
No. It’s probably because you take them in off-hours. There are no empty seats between South Jordan Station and North Temple between 8am - 9am Mon-Thurs.
The fact is public transport is mainly used for commuting to work. This is why I believe employers should help subsidize their employees because it helps them get to work.
2
u/dinopontino 1d ago
The main employers that use trax are just government funded hospital systems and school districts and they do cover your uta pass.
0
1
77
u/RubbleHome 1d ago
Utahns will wonder why it can't be free but then lose their minds if anyone suggests raising taxes by 0.1% to pay for it.
-12
u/jasonpbyu 1d ago
Yeah free isn’t free money has to come from somewhere .
12
19
u/MelodicFacade 1d ago edited 1d ago
.... right, but if it's only 0.1%, it's pretty much nothing so it should basically be free
Especially if you want to compare the benefits and economic movement it returns
4
u/Chernobylia 1d ago
It would take me 1.5 hours to get to work if I tried using UTA. My drive to work is 10 minutes without traffic..
8
u/The_Pepper_Oni 1d ago
I’ll pay 3 bucks if they get service back to pre-2020 levels. As it is I’ll be paying more for worse service.
Gotta love the “don’t compare us to other (better) transit systems in higher COL areas, noooooooo” bit, too
16
2
2
u/No-Intention-2263 1d ago
Well has anyone stopped to think how much money is funded into UTA by the State & Federal Government? Then like by our house if you take the bus plan your time transfer at ATC with a 45-1 hour wait. It takes more time & costs more than driveing. The cost on top of the not convenient. It's not worth it. I rode the Front runner 6 day's a week to Murray the only reason it worked i drove my car to the Hub parked it rode to Murray got in my jeep drove to the hospital or care center drove back parked my Jeep & rode the train home. Took from 7am until 9 sometimes 10 at night to get home. Very small shelter on the platform in snow, wind & rain. Alot of other issues too. The only thing it saced was not driveing back & forth in rush hour traffic & bad weather.
2
2
u/justatoadontheroad Logan 19h ago
I was always a huge fan of Logan’s bus system, it was free and got me where I needed to go easy.
2
5
u/balikbayan21 Salt Lake County 1d ago
Because Republicans, that's why.
If public transit is relatively empty, Republicans complain.
If it's full, they complain.
If we make things free, they complain that subsidies are ruining everything.
There is no arrangement where Republicans would be happy supporting public transit.
4
u/Life_Plum1567 1d ago
I would much rather pay $3 a ride for a better system than a worse system that's free.
4
u/dinopontino 1d ago
High valley transit is fare free and unhoused folks ride the busses all day long. UTA riders, I assure you that you don’t want fare free busses. Trax is bad enough.
10
u/urbanek2525 1d ago
There's no way to make it free. It costs money to buy busses and trains, to pay for drivers and maintenace workers, gas and diesel cost money.
So it should say: "Why can't taxes pay for it?"
I'd have to see the current budget and see an analysis of how much the taxes would increase. Also keep in mind that it would be many people subsidizing the few, which I'd be OK with, but I'd want to see which taxes would go up and by how much.
13
u/MelodicFacade 1d ago
Luxembourg made their trains free, it's definitely possible. Not to mention that fees would affect the ones who benefit the most, namely students and the poor. Park City also has free buses
But there's a common saying that a city doesn't become great when it provides transit for the poor, but when it's so good the wealthy use it too
3
u/Squirtle_Splash_8413 1d ago
Bruh… average income in Luxembourg is $158,000 USD…
7
u/MelodicFacade 1d ago
It's actually about 75k, not THAT much more than ours. Not to mention that their network is also much, much more extensive than ours with better quality, and a much higher operating cost
I'm just saying it's POSSIBLE with our small setup, and raising prices instead of using a small amount of taxes we could use on the richest people is insane
I think you underestimate how much money and how many whales sit here in SLC without paying their fair share of taxes
1
0
u/bumleg 12h ago
without paying their fair share of taxes
We have one of the most progressive tax systems in the developed world. The top 10% of earners pay 72% of all income taxes. What exactly do you have in mind?
1
u/MelodicFacade 9h ago
Funding public transportation, you know, infrastructure that affects poor people the most, can you read? No good does tax revenue does if it doesn't actually go to the public good, and especially if the profits of these rich people come from the backs of their workers and the people use to step on to gain wealth. Also double check your numbers, I think you're just pulling from income, that seems disingenuous, please don't come to this discussion late just to spout things you heard podcasters say
1
u/bumleg 4h ago
You implied we need to raise taxes on the rich — I was simply asking which plan you had in mind. But are you now saying it’s an apportionment issue?
Podcasters, lol. You clearly have all the MAGA stereotypes memorized, congrats. That’s just IRS data, dude. And it’s cute that you think that including capital gains would actually help your argument. Are you under the impression that the bottom 90% are paying significant capital gains? Your DSA brain can only think in blended tax rates, huh? You seem to be under the impression that I’m the one caught up in group think, and that’s hilarious.
2
u/urbanek2525 1d ago
It's not free. It's paid by taxes. That's a great and worthwhile thing to spend taxes on.
Keep in mind that Utah has a lot of empty space. Luxemburg has a population density of 667 people per square mile. Utah has 26 people per square mile.
7
4
5
3
u/WorkEcstatic6242 1d ago
Because we have to subsidize the wealthy
1
u/bumleg 12h ago
The top 1% of earners pay 40% of all income taxes.
The top 10% of earners pay 72% of all income taxes.
The top 50% of earners pay 97% of all income taxes.
Genuinely, what gives you the impression you're subsidizing the wealthy?
0
5
u/spoilerdudegetrekt 1d ago edited 1d ago
It can't be free because then you get a tragedy of the commons. (See California's BART) That's why even places like Europe charge for public transit.
25
u/squrr1 Logan 1d ago
Hey, fun fact, they are free in Logan, and we're somehow surviving.
3
u/dinopontino 1d ago
Hey fun fact, Logan doesn’t have the unhoused population slc does. Busses will become shelters.
-9
u/jasonpbyu 1d ago
Free to you not free to Logan. The money comes from somewhere
11
u/squrr1 Logan 1d ago edited 1d ago
You don't say. And I know exactly where the money comes from, the tax is basically nothing.
Charging fares is such a tiny fraction of UTA's operating budget, and they spend a fortune on collection and enforcement.
Update: I just looked into it, and I pass less sales tax (0.325%) for transit in Logan than people pay for UTA in salt lake county (~0.75% from various "local options")
5
u/drjunkie 1d ago
I don’t know why low IQ posters always post dumb stuff like this. Do you think people really don’t know how it works and just use shorthand lingo that everyone understands?
-5
u/jasonpbyu 1d ago
Oh there’s lots of low IQ people who want Medicare for all. Subsidized groceries and housing.
2
u/Ahnteis 1d ago
Much better the way we do it now where we subsidize the rich instead. Right?
1
u/bumleg 12h ago
How are you subsidizing the rich? Genuinely asking.
0
u/Ahnteis 12h ago
The rich and the companies they control get subsidies, tax credits, and deductions from the government.
An easy example is Walmart doesn't have to pay people as much because they count on their employees using food stamps to survive. They then frame it as subsidizing the poor so that people won't blame them.
1
u/bumleg 12h ago
The top 10% of earners pay 72% of all income taxes, and the top 50% pay 97%. Who do you think pays for food stamps? The rich pay for most everything in this country. The bottom half of earners aren't subsidizing anything.
1
u/Ahnteis 9h ago
The bottom 90% are doing all the actual work. That in itself would be enough. It makes sense that those who are barely scraping by in spite of working long hours shouldn't have to pay as much.
→ More replies (0)7
u/chasew90 1d ago
Yes! A small fee helps avoid a Bart situation. If you want people to use transit, it has to be clean and safe as well as convenient.
-2
u/utahplantman 1d ago
What happened with BART? Neither BART nor MUNI Metro have a free fare zone. They might offer free rides on air alert (smog) days, but I'm not sure if that's what you're referencing.
13
u/Odd_Refuse3334 1d ago
People have no idea how much even minimal fees improve urban transit. I’m a new urbanist YIMBY but the data out of BART and other systems shouldn’t be ignored
8
u/spoilerdudegetrekt 1d ago
I’m a new urbanist YIMBY but the data out of BART and other systems shouldn’t be ignored
Thank you! The other guy doesn't seem to understand how a tragedy of the commons works, nor that it's not something that happens immediately.
0
u/Fly0strich 1d ago
What the hell is a YIMBY? Who is Bart?
3
u/ink_enchantress 1d ago
BART is the bay area train. Lots of drug users riding around
2
u/Squirtle_Splash_8413 1d ago
I saw someone with active warrants for violent crimes ride the Front Runner but was arrested because he didn’t have a ticket and was checked. If it was free, the police wouldn’t check.
1
u/ink_enchantress 1d ago
I'm not arguing for or against paid public transit. Just answering what it was and the reason BART was likely brought up. From a tourist amount of use at least I couldn't see anything else particularly problematic while I was using it and it was really convenient.
2
u/helix400 1d ago
You know that crazy guy on Frontrunner who rambles to himself and then talks loudly on his speakerphone?
Make fares free, then you will get many more of them.
1
u/basicpn Salt Lake City 1d ago
Doesn’t BART charge a fee though?
2
0
u/ink_enchantress 1d ago
I paid a few years ago visiting SF. Maybe it's a local thing to get reduced fares?
0
u/MelodicFacade 1d ago
Buses are free in Park City
4
u/Squirtle_Splash_8413 1d ago
Then we should move our homeless shelters there.
0
u/MelodicFacade 1d ago
Oh brother, someone's uncle showed up. I thought the wealth of Park City would trickle down to us common people? I thought we were supposed to pamper that higher class of people, so why would we send the homeless to their front doors?
1
u/dinopontino 1d ago
They are not free, they are fare free and we have a homeless and unhoused folks riding the slc to pc route all day, yelling at riders and sleeping/living in the busses. Hell no to fare free public transportation.
0
u/MelodicFacade 1d ago
.... or you can view it as helping those who need it the most
3
u/dinopontino 22h ago
Help me understand, you think unhoused citizens should use public transit as a homeless shelter? They don’t get off the bus at kimball junction, they just ride the bus all day up and down i80.
1
u/LostDogBoulderUtah 21h ago
We should probably build something that allows them to get out of the cold then. Riding the bus all day every day sounds miserable, but better than freezing to death I suppose.
1
u/dinopontino 20h ago
Unhoused policy and public transit safety are 2 different issues. Fare free transit doesn’t work, it’s unsafe.
No comment on unhoused policy, I feel awful for downtown business owners trying to fend off the homeless from disrupting their businesses. I believe a hall pass waitress was assaulted by an unhoused man this summer.
2
u/MelodicFacade 18h ago
Solving homeless is a massive problem and it's also multifaceted, but one of the largest facets is car infrastructure in the US. Car infrastructure is inefficient with space, leading to housing shortages. Car-centered development means apartments have to spend a massive amount of money on car parking which raises rent. And then for many jobs, you have to own a car to get to, since public transit is the only place to reach them. Many homeless you see on the street have absolutely zero chance at builidng enough cash to buy any car
If you don't believe me, look into how hard it actually is to track homeless numbers; a large portion of American homeless actually live in their cars and don't necessarily show up to shelters often.
If you actually do care about solving this issue, it's better to view it as a revolving door of people, since people are generally only homeless temporarily, even if they are repeat victims. The ones who everyone complains about are generally the ones who exited the revolving door and stay homeless due to drugs or mental health.
So it's almost very simple, a massive help in terms of reducing that number of people dipping into homeless would be to increase housing supply, which is cheaper and more efficiwnt when you design for healthy density, and that density HAS to be paired with affordable public transit. A suburban development doesn't help the homeless if they can't get to work from those suburbs, since we zone areas so strictly
American policies have always struggled with multifaceted issues like homelessness, but expanding public transit and making it affordable is one of the most immediate solutions to reduce homelessness
1
u/bumleg 12h ago
None of what you said supports making it free.
0
u/MelodicFacade 9h ago
Bro read along with me, they said "Unhoused policy and public transit safety are 2 different issues." do you understand how the discussion shifted away from "should we have free fares?" They literally said "and unhoused folks riding the slc to pc route all day, yelling at riders and sleeping/living in the busses"
Can you see there are two topics going on?
→ More replies (0)2
u/LostDogBoulderUtah 17h ago
If a bus ticket for the day is $5 and a cheap hotel room is $120, then someone who doesn't have anywhere else to go will spend the $5 to stay warm. At that point, the barrier to entry is no different than fare free transit.
Someone who is severely mentally ill often has other hygiene issues that make the $5 fare not worth the time for the bus driver or police to collect.
Good public transit and housing policies do a LOT to reduce crime and help people secure housing and stability. If you care about downtown business owners, then you have to care about the public.
0
u/Mysterious_Bridge668 1d ago
As a "Utahn", no one i know has ever asked why it isn't free. This ain't NYC.
1
u/supmaster3 22h ago
Takes 2 hours from my area to get to fashion place mall, takes 20 minutes or less in car. Can they improve the routes then?
1
u/Glum-Ad-1379 20h ago
Free doesn’t fund the massive cost of operating, maintaining, and expanding regional bus, light rail, and commuter train lines across the Wasatch Front .
1
1
u/Traversethevoid 12h ago
Before I got my car I had to uber to and from work because no buses went out where I worked. And I worked in a area that was a heavy commercial area with tons of warehouses. Previous job it was a 2 hour bus and trax ride to work and 2 hours home from work. Because they force you to take the bus to the trax station and then take the trax through the city. That doesn't include the walking and waiting. And the earliest I could get there was an hour after the start of my shift.
Why the hell would I take the bus/trax when I can drive for 15 minutes and be at work? Lol
1
u/CptPikespeak 7h ago
I don’t want it free. I just want people to actually use public transport as intended and not as lodging for homeless people.
0
u/Imaginary_Manner_556 1d ago
Because it helps people that need help. Politics is about corporations
1
u/Chumlee1917 1d ago
The problem of Trax is if one thing goes wrong, the whole system basically freezes up and you're hosed
1
u/DamnBlaze09 1d ago
Because there is no such thing as free. Honestly the word free should be outlawed in the context of government action.
0
u/dan_the_manly 19h ago
Because running them costs money - maintenance costs, driver wages, fuel, etc. That money has to come from somewhere. Tax increases or paying to ride - we have to pick one.
-1
u/abitchwithpotions 19h ago
Nothing is free. Is UTA is suddenly free expect your taxes to account for it the year after.
1
u/GmanGwilliam 7h ago
Fares account for about 6% of UTA’s budget. And most of that goes to maintaining and operating the fare systems.
Honestly I don’t think UTA really wants to raise the fares, I believe it’s part of their plan to prime public opinion against the union as they continue to draw out contract negotiations. 🧐
54
u/dallenbaldwin 1d ago
I personally would be willing to pay a max daily rate across modalities, maybe something like $6. Tap on and off at every location and only charge my card the max if I'd cross it.
For that, I'd expect trains, light rail, busses, etc. To actually run when I want them to, like after a concert or event at 11pm at night. Too many stop running too close to the end of most events that would benefit most from them so you feel like you have to drive because the crowds at the event will likely make you miss the last one.
I'd also expect more local connectivity that runs more than once every 30 minutes. I shouldn't have to plan my trip around the bus. Front runner I guess I can understand, but too many busses close to where I live run 2 times a day at worse and every 30 minutes at best. Neither have adequate shelters so I can't just wait when I get there.
I don't mind paying to help subsidize the cost. I'd expect my tax dollars to make up the difference.