Ben Affleck confirms he turned down directing The Force Awakens

[u/GenButter]

https://www.avclub.com/ben-affleck-passed-directing-the-force-awakens

[u/Leklor]

Like about half of Hollywood.

We know or suspect that at least Christopher McQuarrie, Brad Bird, Andrew Stanton, David Fincher, Guillermo Del Toro and Matthew Vaughn were offered the job and either refused outright or left after very short negociations.

Abrams wasn't the best choice but it seems he was pretty much the only one who agreed and had been approved by Disney brass.

[u/TheMoneyOfArt → u/Leklor]

I have a memory that timing was the sticking point for a lot of otherwise great candidates. They simply didn't think they could make a good movie on the timeline Disney insisted on

[u/Leklor → u/TheMoneyOfArt]

Which is a fair concern. I think McQuarrie outright said he didn't want to deal with the Star Wars fanbase though.

As for Stanton, he went back to Pixar after John Carter (unfairly) flopped. he did write two episodes of Obi-Wan (The last two, some of the better ones). I suspect John Carter bombing cooled Disney on the prospect of handing him Star Wars.

[u/TheMoneyOfArt → u/Leklor]

McQuarrie was mad at the Reacher fans for their reaction to his movie with Tom Cruise and decided to never feel beholden to the fans again. He said something to this effect on one of his appearances on the Light the Fuse podcast. 

Like they spent days figuring out every scar Reacher would have from all the books, and applying them all to Cruise for a shirtless shot, but because Tom Cruise is short instead of tall, fans rejected him from the jump. I can see where he would decide they star wars fans were not worth the trouble

[u/Ok-Computer-8726 → u/TheMoneyOfArt]

Star Wars has been too much trouble for directors going back at least to the prequels.

[u/Tango8036 → u/Ok-Computer-8726]

Yeah, Lucas didn't originally want to direct the prequels. He wanted to write and produce and maybe edit; that's it. But every director he asked, told him that he'd be better off directing them himself. I'm pretty sure he asked Steven Spielberg and Ron Howard at least.

[u/RobutNotRobot → u/Ok-Computer-8726]

I think the problem is that being a director under George Lucas meant you didn't have much freedom

[u/baggio1000000 → u/RobutNotRobot]

Yes, he was always around for Empire filming. I bet that drove Kershner nuts.

[u/ChimRichaldsOBGYN → u/Ok-Computer-8726]

Going back to the SEQUEL. George didn’t want to do it and begged his buddy Steve to do it and he turned it down also.

[u/Ok-Computer-8726 → u/ChimRichaldsOBGYN]

Thanks. I suspected the OT had some of that, but wasn't sure.

[u/foreveracubone → u/TheMoneyOfArt]

but because Tom Cruise is short instead of tall, fans rejected him from the jump.

Reacher’s height is far more important to the character than the scars though lol. To their credit the first Cruise movie captures the character’s essence… but he’s not 6’5”

[u/TheMoneyOfArt → u/foreveracubone]

The point of the story is that you can go to great lengths to do something for 1% of the audience and if you got anything "wrong" in their book, they won't even notice the lengths you went to

[u/Raider2747 → u/TheMoneyOfArt]

That decision of his probably helps to explain why the last two M:I films went as bad as they did.

[u/TheMoneyOfArt → u/Raider2747]

Eh, I don't agree. The "don't cater to the fans" idea let them be as loose with IMF continuity as the series always was, so we get the little bit of mythology and The Oath in dead reckoning. Final Reckoning does have a lot of fan service by the way of the montages, the big returns, the Rabbit's Foot retcon. I don't think those help the movie particularly. 

The issues with those movies imo are all come from them making it up as they went along.  which had been their standard practice on mission the entire time McQ was involved. He saved the entire abu dhabi sequence with two days of writing or something.

That habit led to Rebecca Ferguson asking to be written out, because she had to choose between one Mission or three other projects. 

I also think dead reckoning never came together, it underperformed financially, and then they got told to make the sequel more standalone, so there's setups that never pay off

[u/MCRemix → u/Leklor]

Most fanbases are bad, but Star Wars fans are particularly bad to deal with....I respect that decision by McQuarrie.

[u/True_to_you → u/MCRemix]

The way they treated Kelly Marie Tran was pretty shitty. I can't imagine wanting to open yourself up to that. And then to put yourself in a box creatively is a risk as well. That's kind of what made early marvel movies great. They were on to something really great with iron Man, Thor, Captain America the first avenger. Then with success and the sequels, things for eroded and turned into a big cgi green screen fest. You're essentially a cog in a machine instead of a driving force. 

[u/MCRemix → u/True_to_you]

Jake Lloyd and Ahmed Best always come to mind, Kelly is a great modern example.

It's not most of us....but there is a certain rabid element to the fanbase that will get completely uncivil and out of line if you piss them off.

Agreed about the creativity.

[u/True_to_you → u/MCRemix]

Them too. Not to say it isn't bad for the adults, but this was grown ass man saying this shit about a kid too. I was happy to see Ahmed back in the franchise recently. 

[u/Worldly-Stranger7814 → u/TheMoneyOfArt]

In my opinion they were proved right.

[u/SeegullJockey → u/TheMoneyOfArt]

Same for the writers. Michael Ardnt was writing a Force Awakens that had a more original story but he couldn't work with Disney's accelerated timeline so they just got JJ and Lawrence Kasdan to copy and paste A New Hope.

[u/ShoppingIcy6952 → u/Leklor]

Brad Bird would’ve been really inspired.

[u/Gekokapowco → u/ShoppingIcy6952]

Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol was a really cool movie with a great ensemble cast, I think he would have done extremely well with a star wars script.

[u/astroK120 → u/Gekokapowco]

Ghost Protocol is easily my favorite Mission Impossible movie. And for that matter The Incredibles is my favorite Pixar movie. Yeah, he would have been great for Star Wars

[u/StarTroop → u/ShoppingIcy6952]

They should have gotten him to direct the last Indiana Jones. I normally like James Mangold, but he really didn't have the right style to follow up Speilberg. Brad Bird, however, nailed the classic Speilberg action style with Ghost Protocol.

[u/Fritzo2162 → u/Leklor]

Brad Bird probably could have done wonders with it.

[u/Djl3igh → u/Leklor]

Gods! Del Toro doing a Star Wars. That would have been nice.

I wonder what roles Doug Jones and Ron Perlman would have had.

[u/Bombasaur101 → u/Leklor]

People shit in JJ but I genuinely loved Force Awakens when it came out. I also don't blame him for Episode 9. Colin Trevorrow was essentially kicked out last minute and they had to whip up an entirely new movie and script in 2 years.

[u/Leklor → u/Bombasaur101]

I think he did a good enough (If unoriginal) job with TFA until the moment Finn was hurt so bad he ended the film in a coma.

This should have stopped everyone dead in their tracks. Separating the barely formed main trio of the trilogy with two of them not even having really met proper is a massive mistake.

I think the last fifteen minutes of TFA kind of doomed the entire trilogy in the public eye by preventing a proper rapport forming between audiences and the new leads as a group. And also ending on a cliffhanger.

[u/Every_University_ → u/Leklor]

Everything would have been fine if episode 8 didn't start with the first order as the new empire and the protagonists weren't kept separate, that's the beauty(derogatory) of JJ's storytelling, he doesn't say anything so you can make something better.

He never confirms the jedi are all dead or that the republic was destroyed, it didn't NEED to be a copy of the original trilogy.

[u/marikwinters → u/Every_University_]

I mean, short of the first movie being a near identical copy of a new hope with slightly different paint, I do somewhat agree. You could have gone a very different route. I would argue that TLJ riffs off of that in a way designed to prevent the trilogy from being a total ripoff while somewhat respecting that TFA wanted things to (putting it generously) mirror the originals. Johnson, for all of the flaws in TLJ (mostly the casino planet), at least had an ending that should have prevented the next movie from being a retread of Return of the Jedi. It was only incredible gymnastics from JJ and co that brought it back to being a worse version of the most disliked of the original trilogy.

[u/TeutonJon78 → u/marikwinters]

Yep. TFA was clearly ANH in new clothes. TLJ definitley also ran through elements of ESB and ROTJ, and as you said, left it immediately open for 9 to go somewhere new. And more importantly, setup something for 10-12. Instead 9 just redid ROTJ again.

Transitioning to the new cast was kind of the whole original point of the ST. Instead they sidelined Finn (and pissed off the actor), left Rey basically alone at the end, originally planned on killing off Poe in 7, and didn't build up anyone else (like sidelining Rose in 9).

[u/Krazyguy75 → u/TeutonJon78]

and as you said, left it immediately open for 9 to go somewhere new

I honestly don't agree. It couldn't become RotJ, but also... it just couldn't really do anything else either.

Rey's force power was on par with Kylo's and she'd already beaten him once, albeit injured. Snoke was dead. Starkiller Base was blown up. The majority of the force order fleet was damaged or destroyed. The resistance was down to just a Millenium Falcon's worth of people. Luke was dead. Carrie Fisher was dead. Rey's parents were nobodies, so she had no real mysteries to explore and no plot arc to finish. Kylo's entire backstory was revealed and Snoke was dead, so he had no real mysteries to explore and no plot arc to finish.

Where do you go with the story after that? It'd have to be a dramatic decrease in the stakes of the story, or it'd have to significantly retcon things.

That's the issue with not writing it as a single story; you can make a perfectly competent movie that still just leaves the trilogy with nowhere to go.

[u/darthstupidious → u/Krazyguy75]

I mean, TLJ ended with Kylo poised to become the new emperor. From there, his story is essentially unlimited. You can redeem him, or force him to push pedal to the medal in his quest to dominate everything.

Rey was set up to do something new. Not just recreate the Jedi as they had been before, but forge a new path for the Jedi that incorporated the old but went somewhere new. She could have even gone back to basics and found the path the original Jedi set out to tread. And it was clear TLJ was scripted in a way to have Carrie Fisher play a major role in IX (as Harrison Ford had played prominently in VII and Mark Hamill in VIII) bit her untimely death prevented that and changed things.

Finn was set up to be a true ride-or-die for the Rebels. TFA just showed him running away from the First Order and trying to save Rey, but TLJ showed him becoming his own person. He was almost entirely sidelined in IX.

Poe, meanwhile, was taught a tough lesson in leadership in TLJ and was set up to take a more prominent role in the next film. But he, too, was mostly sidelined and relegated to pilot guy again (and of course, have to give him a drug dealer backstory).

Idk, I feel like TLJ nicely set up IX to be unique and interesting, and go somewhere Star Wars had never been before. Kylo's entire storyline, for example, is the ultimate what if: what if a Skywalker (basically) truly embraced the dark side and became emperor of the galaxy? But nope, just had to etch-a-sketch that and make him an underling for Palpatine.

[u/Every_University_ → u/marikwinters]

I feel like Rian Johnson should have focused on building something different instead of trying to stop episode 9 from being episode 6 again, it's how we got Palpatine back, because he didn't want Snoke to be the new Palpatine.

But wouldn't it have been better to have Kylo kill Snoke at the beginning and then building him as the villain?

Have the heroes try and stop Kylos plan so now they have a rapport that's not creepy and you can build towards the final confrontation.

Have the republic and Jedi exist so if someone wants to do content in the sequel era they won't think "Why not do it during the OT. We have Darth Vader!"

[u/Krazyguy75 → u/Every_University_]

I don't mind him killing Snoke, but the idea that Kylo could replace him just didn't work with how he wrote TLJ.

Snoke was a mysterious figure we knew nothing about who could easily overpower Rey. Kylo was a figure we learned everything about during the movie and whose force powers were evenly matched against Rey. And Rey started the movie weaker than Kylo.

Yet Snoke dies and Kylo lives. Meaning that you are stuck with a villain who should almost immediately become weaker than the protagonist based on their growth, who has no real mysteries left to explore.

If they wanted to pull off that twist, Kylo's backstory should have been part of IX and Snoke's should have been part of VIII, and you make it that Kylo had either been hiding his power or it had somehow been suppressed or drained by Snoke, and have the movie end with Kylo easily defeating Rey. The way they did it just doesn't make sense if Kylo is supposed to be the big bad going forward.

[u/Bebopo90 → u/Every_University_]

Would've been really fun for Kylo to kill Snoke...and then have another Snoke appear almost immediately afterwards, ala Rei from Evangelion.

At least, that's what would have happened if the trilogy was actually planned out.

[u/IndyMLVC → u/marikwinters]

People need to learn what the word identical means.

[u/jaycfresh → u/Every_University_]

TFA clearly established The First Order as the “New Empire.” Kylo Ren was new Vader, Snoke was new Palpatine, and The Resistance was the new Rebellion. The status quo was reset simply because JJ wanted scrappy good guys vs the Empire again.

[u/astroK120 → u/jaycfresh]

Yeah, I've long held that TLJ gets blamed for things that are really the fault of TFA, but blaming TLJ for making the first order the new empire really takes the cake here

[u/AnakinTano19 → u/Every_University_]

Nah, that is JJ being an asshole for the next to come. "Setting" something up by doing fuck all makes the next 2 have a harder time because TFA introduces us to the characters and nothing more. And it has to be that the FO becomes the "new empire" because they had a planet refitted to be a death star. You cant do that if you dont have serious backing and just nuked the capitol of the new republic

[u/Bebopo90 → u/Leklor]

Would have also been a lot more interesting had The New Republic not been destroyed.

If you keep everything about the movie the same other than Starkiller Base, it would have set up a really cool trilogy.

[u/Sandalwood-Lakers → u/Leklor]

TLJ didn't have to resume seconds after TFA.

The trio could have been together with a time jump.

[u/Leklor → u/Sandalwood-Lakers]

I mean, it kind of did. The film implied there was some big reason with Luke being missing and ends without giving an answer but with him being right there. While on the Resistance front, the base has been discovered and was mid-evacuation (And one of the sillier but pervasive nitpick about ANH was that the Rebels were taking the time to organize a big ceremony when the Empire was very much around and probably aware of their location).

Had TFA ended with Rey finding nothing or just another clue, I could have accepted TLJ skipping a few months/years ahead.

But with the way TFA ended, I feel like there wasn't much choice.

[u/Iwantmoretime → u/Bombasaur101]

The entire trilogy I blame on Disney execs and the timelines they established.

[u/RealisticAd4054 → u/Bombasaur101]

before TFA came out there was a whole “in JJ we trust” movement. And after it came out he was widely praised for bringing Star Wars back to form.

Maybe some of these people commenting didnt like TFA from the start, but it certainly wasnt the majority opinion, and hating on JJ was not as trendy.

[u/BadMoonRosin → u/RealisticAd4054]

I remember like 3 to 6 months after TFA's release, James Cameron was quoted along the lines of, "Ehh, it wasn't anything original though".

That was literally the... first... (semi) negative... word... that I had heard spoken about TFA. Myself, and pretty much the collective Internet fandom, shrugged like "Huh. He has a point, but it was still really fun though".

It wasn't until TLJ came out, and basically said "That last movie was stupid and only stupid people care about anything it set up", that things became polarized. Suddenly half the Internet retroactively hated TFA all along.

[u/HarpoMarx87 → u/BadMoonRosin]

My impression on opening night was that it was fun, but something felt a little off, and it was obviously derivative. Most of my friends who saw it early had similar impressions. I think the overall feeling was "well, that was fine as a soft reboot, and we'll see where it goes from here" - not condemning it, certainly, but also not confident that "Star Wars is back!" or anything like that.

Then TLJ came out and all hell broke loose. (I liked it more than most, seemingly, but I saw very few sober takes until months later.) I do think it retroactively made people dislike TFA more (though tRoS did far more in that direction), but mostly because many people were wondering where TFA was going, and then it became clear that there wasn't much of a plan at all. (Which, to be fair, has always been Abrams' MO; he's great at setting up the story, but atrocious at figuring out how to end it in a satisfying way - which made him a downright bizarre pick for Episode 9.)

[u/conflatulationz → u/BadMoonRosin]

That’s rich coming from the guy who ripped off Dances With Wolves practically beat for beat in Avatar

[u/TokenStraightFriend → u/RealisticAd4054]

It's ironically the same thing with the Trek movies imo. He gets praised at the time for revitalizing momentum of stagnant IPs (into darkness was meh, but nowhere near the stinker beyond was box office wise) then when things go south by someone else's hand the blame gets laid at his feet for "setting the tone". It's wild

[u/aresef → u/Bombasaur101]

Literally the only movie to have none of that production-side drama attached, anthology films included, was TLJ. Rian Johnson knew his vision, wrote his script and executed said vision without any fires needing to be put out.

[u/TeutonJon78 → u/aresef]

Also worked extensively with the Story Group and Fisher (a noted script doctor) for the whole thing. And finished the movie like 3 months early.

JJ was allegedly editing TFA right until they literally had to start sending copies to theaters. Don't know if it was the same for 9.

[u/aresef → u/TeutonJon78]

Also, Rian Johnson was studiously watching TFA dailies and keeping in touch with the cast. It was Hamill who rang him up to tell him “hey, JJ has Luke lifting rocks, you might want to talk to him.”

[u/Rcmacc → u/TeutonJon78]

Don't know if it was the same for 9.

it was. Highly recommend listening to the Going Rogue podcast. Great background of ROS in the most recent series

[u/No-Opposite-6620 → u/aresef]

Rian Johnson knew his vision, wrote his script and executed said vision without any fires needing to be put out.

No, later the flame wars began.

[u/thatdudewillyd → u/No-Opposite-6620]

“Now is not the time for fear!

That comes later.”

[u/PalehorseFM22 → u/Bombasaur101]

To be fair, they didn't HAVE to, they could've taken their time and written something at least coherent. Something is only late once, bad forever.

[u/MrFiendish → u/Bombasaur101]

You liked Force Awakens because it reminded you of A New Hope. It literally follows the same plot, just prettier.

I liked it too, until I started thinking about why. And it made me dislike the movie.

[u/ned101 → u/Bombasaur101]

You say in 2 years. But how is 2 years not enough time to write a script? People have written films in less than a year.

[u/DramaExpertHS → u/ned101]

Usually you need a script before you start filming.

[u/manuscelerdei → u/Bombasaur101]

Yeah it was fine as a jumping-off point. Got people excited about Star Wars again. The critical mistake was letting RJ direct the sequel. All he had to do was pick a few mystery boxes and explore them; instead he decided to make an entire movie dedicated to why he hated the previous one and thought very little of people who enjoyed it. Which would have been fine if his movie was any good. But it wasn't. It was boring, plodding, and preachy.

After that, Episode 9 was basically unsalvageable. Total disaster class from Disney, but it started with TLJ, not TFA.

[u/AnakinTano19 → u/manuscelerdei]

Well, I like TLJ more because its its own movie, TFA is just, well, Episode 4 rewritten with no clear idea how to move forward. And its a dick move to "set up" many mysteries for the next guy without any clues or planning them together

[u/TD160 → u/Bombasaur101]

I enjoyed Force Awakens even though I thought it was a blatant ripoff on the first film. Comically so. But…..I hoped he had a plan and the next film would take things into a new bigger direction. Which happened with Johnson…but for me, that meant down the toilet. 😬

[u/ElTuco84 → u/Leklor]

Out of that list, Brad Bird would have been amazing.

[u/SubstantialAgency914 → u/ElTuco84]

Idk, del Toro would have had some awesome aliens.

[u/ElTuco84 → u/SubstantialAgency914]

Del Toro would definitely make a non human a very important character in the story, if not the main.

Which actually would been nice, now that I think about it.

[u/Free_Possession_4482 → u/Leklor]

Abrams would have been fine just as a director. He nailed the 'feel' of a Star Wars film, and his craftsmanship is always solid. He's just a really terrible screenwriter.

[u/Puzzleheaded-Web446 → u/Leklor]

GDT says he wanted to make a movie about the Hutts. Like a Goodfellas/Godfather style gangster film but with Hutts.

He also said that thinking about making a Star Wars films is like thinking about dating a Supermodel.

[u/eddieswiss → u/Leklor]

A Guillermo Del Toro Star Wars would have been neat.

[u/gecko090 → u/Leklor]

A David Fincher Star Wars would be something.

[u/Billybob35 → u/Leklor]

Abrams actually turned it down twice before saying yes.

[u/davebgray → u/Leklor]

I do think that JJ was the best choice. His visual sensibilities fit so well with Star Wars and he's a good director for that 80s adventure nostalgia. The Force Awakens is a very well-directed Star Wars movie. I just think that they needed a road map to know where they were going before they set off.

Even The Rise of Skywalker isn't poorly directed. It's just a slop of a story.

[u/Leklor → u/davebgray]

My issue is that he is too reverent.

His entire filmography up to that point was emulating Spielberg and Lucas, with his Star Trek movies having a deliberate Star Wars-y vibe.

He's not bad, the movie is far from horrible, it's pretty good until it stumbles near the end, but as a "safe" return after the divisive Prequels (When he was hired, we were barely at the dawn of their public "reevaluation") he was a good choice. I just think there may have been other choices who could also have delivered a banger and maybe not drawn as much criticism for lacking originality.

[u/astroK120 → u/Leklor]

I wish I could find the exact quote, but I read something about why The Simpsons fell off that really applies to JJ as well. It was something to the effect of "The early seasons of The Simpsons were written by people who grew up with this eclectic mix of pop culture that created this unique stew of ideas. The later seasons of The Simpsons were written by people who grew up watching The Simpsons."

[u/Leklor → u/astroK120]

I mean, it is my opinion of the Sequels and why TLJ is, IMO, the most interesting of the bunch.

TFA is Star Wars inspired by Star Wars.

TLJ is Star Wars inspired by how Star Wars was made (Meaning watching the same kind of movies, having similar cultural references, etc...)

[u/TeutonJon78 → u/davebgray]

He's an amazing director and cinematographer, just a bottom of the barrel screenwriter.

And they let him do both things.

[u/davebgray → u/TeutonJon78]

He should've had a proper writer handle the trilogy. His view for character moments and action and pacing is very good, IMO.

[u/JKTwice → u/davebgray]

IDK. JJ Abrams ended up being a writer on the project and figuring out how the story was gonna go. Before this you had Michael Arndt (Little Miss Sunshine, Toy Story 3) writing the script and he had a treatment ready to go and suddenly struggled to turn in a script when JJ and Lawrence Kasdan were helping him out. It's pretty clear that JJ had a very outsized influence on how the movie turned out, and what he wanted was a retro movie as George said. He wanted the Star Wars he remembered as a kid, not the Star Wars burned by its lore. Distilled, simple adventure. Unfortunately while he had the right idea for a nostalgic product, this is Episode VII. Not Episode I where he gets to set everything up. He's adding onto lore he doesn't know jack shit about and it's kinda a mess and of course the utter lack of planning shows in the next episodes.

[u/RealisticAd4054 → u/Leklor]

JJ was also handpicked by George, said by George’s son himself.

All these directors had a general meeting with Lucasfilm at the time. Affleck wasn’t offered the gig over JJ and turned it down (the headline is clickbait). Like he said, “yeah, they came to me and asked me, ‘Hey, are you interested in this?’ And I don’t know that that meant they weren’t also talking to J.J. or other people, but I talked to those folks at the time”

EDIT: Jett Lucas interview at the 9:30 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=lnr18AUym-o&t=304s&pp=ygUUamV0dCBsdWNhcyBpbnRlcnZpZXc%3D

[u/Logan_Composer → u/RealisticAd4054]

It makes sense. You're making a huge movie, you wanna hear a bunch of different pitches and pick your favorite. Absolutely no way most of those people would say yes, but you'd kick yourself if later on David Fincher goes "man, I would've loved to have done that."

[u/RealisticAd4054 → u/Logan_Composer]

And they also want to get a sense of what these filmmakers would want to do with Star Wars in general. Which is why del Toro was one of the directors talked to at the time but he ended up developing some Jabba/Tattooine underworld film.

JJ was also considered a good get for the franchise at the time.

[u/ECKohns → u/Leklor]

Which is why I think JJ used that leverage to get his “New Hope” remake made instead of Lucas’s proposed story. Lucas and Michael Arndt were seen as expendable but JJ wasn’t.

[u/Leklor → u/ECKohns]

Based on Bob Iger's own memoir, he, not JJ, was the reason Ardnt left. He wanted more OT trio in the film and kept demanding rewrites until Ardnt left.

Ultimately, I think JJ was too lost in his childhood dream of directing Star Wars to be trying anything nefarious. And after eleven years, I feel like we would know if he was that kind of guy. Not a lot stays secret at Lucasfilm these days.

[u/tyler980908 → u/Leklor]

IMAGINE a Brad bird Star Wars movie! Thought animated would fit him better

[u/Leklor → u/tyler980908]

He's done an excellent job with Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol in live-action. Though I hear Tomorrowland is not as good.

[u/tyler980908 → u/Leklor]

Wait that was Brad bird?!

[u/Leklor → u/tyler980908]

Yup! An unexpected offering from him but after McQuarrie (Especially for 5 and 6), he delivered some of the best from the series.

(I don't think Abram's own MI 3 is bad, he litteraly saved the franchise after the second was a laughing stock, but it's been handily overshadowed.)

[u/A-Centrifugal-Force → u/tyler980908]

Based on how good Mission Impossible 4 was, I think he could have pulled it off. Disney should have just cancelled Tomorrowland to make the decision for him instead of making him pick between the two.

[u/AnArcOfDoves9902 → u/Leklor]

I like JJ Abrams' films outside of Star Wars. I blame studio meddling for the mess that the Sequel Trilogy became, not the directors that Disney hired

[u/nomnomnomnomRABIES → u/AnArcOfDoves9902]

I don't blame JJ but dear god TLJ isn't just the fault of a short timeline

[u/BubbaUnkle → u/Leklor]

Reading this has made me even more confused. So Disney KNOWS they should probably hire the most acclaimed directors for important shit like the continuation of the SKYWALKER SAGA yet they hired fucking Jon Watts

[u/GryffinDART → u/BubbaUnkle]

Watts is on the same level as some of those directors he named + already has a relationship with Disney and knows how to make successful big budget IP films. It isn't that crazy they chose him or hard to understand why.

[u/Leklor → u/BubbaUnkle]

He made Disney a loooot of money with Spider-Man. And while 98% of the reason he did is because he was working on Spider-Man, they believe (Or want to believe) he'll pull off the same with Star Wars. Plus apparently Skeleton Crew is quite fine but I haven't seen it yet.

We'll see.

[u/BruceBannerfanboy]

What the hell? Lol

He’s not bad, just a random choice

[u/jahiel0 → u/BruceBannerfanboy]

he had just won Best Picture for Argo. Not really random. It’s a good movie with qualities that could be translated to a Star Wars film.

[u/BruceBannerfanboy → u/jahiel0]

He’s not a bad director, I just personally couldn’t see his creative sensibilities as a director matching with Star Wars. Unless it’s like an Andor-style project lol

[u/TylerNine → u/BruceBannerfanboy]

TBH I'd prefer that we did get his crestive sensibilities over what we did end up with. That's obviously hindsight 20/20 tho.

[u/LaneMcD → u/TylerNine]

I'd love to peek into the universe where he did episode 7. Could be a banger for all we know

[u/Cyke101 → u/LaneMcD]

Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back

[u/CrossP → u/BruceBannerfanboy]

And yet at the time I would've said Abrams was a perfect choice

[u/Farsoth → u/CrossP]

After what he did to Star Trek by then, I certainly didn't at the time.

[u/BearWrangler → u/BruceBannerfanboy]

The Town but in space Boston would be crazy lol

[u/Papa_Razzi → u/jahiel0]

Wow I thought you were tripping but Argo was only 3 years before TFA?? I thought it was like a decade before. I’m getting old man…

[u/BattledroidE → u/Papa_Razzi]

TFA is 11 years old.

Dammit!

[u/WhoCanTell → u/BattledroidE]

It's longer between TFA and now, than it was between ROTS and TFA.

[u/raknor88 → u/BruceBannerfanboy]

I'm pretty sure that if Affleck had been the director, especially for the whole trilogy, they might've been a great trilogy.

[u/Tango8036 → u/raknor88]

I dunno. He was supposed to write/direct a Batman movie for the DCEU too and just never had any ideas for it. Maybe this sort of thing just doesn't suit him as a writer.

[u/aresef → u/BruceBannerfanboy]

Kathleen Kennedy, left to her own devices, knew what she was doing.

[u/Tango8036 → u/aresef]

Yeah, Disney were in such a rush to have exclusive content for Disney+ that they rushed a lot of things. Everyone, even Disney, agrees that Disney was at fault for the drop in quality in the MCU. Lucasfilm should have been allowed to take its time on the Sequel Trilogy. Of course, if it had, I suppose we wouldn't have had Carrie Fisher in them at all.

[u/Shout92 → u/BruceBannerfanboy]

They were bringing in everyone in 2013/2014, whether it was for VII or another film. A really interesting lineup of directors that really showed Kennedy's relationships in Hollywood... and almost none of them have come to pass.

You could argue Tony Gilroy was her biggest past collaborator that made it into the universe and he basically had to come in through the back door both times. Ron Howard almost worked with her on Curious Case of Benjamin Button, but again, like Gilroy, he basically came in through the back door.

Established filmmakers with the reputation of Affleck, Bird, Fincher, Del Toro, etc. have mostly stayed away from the franchise and so we got a lot of up-and-comers, with Rian Johnson being arguably the only success both for his Star Wars movie and his filmography afterwards. But even those backfired and now we seemingly have MCU journeymen (Favreau, Levy, Watts) picking up the slack.

[u/Holmcroft → u/Shout92]

I think it’s clear that Disney just want safe pairs of hands - which I think is what will ultimately drive the properties into the ground

[u/aresef → u/Shout92]

If Netflix hadn’t written Rian Johnson that big fat check, we might’ve gotten his trilogy.

[u/Tango8036 → u/aresef]

Technically it was never cancelled; Kathleen Kennedy said that they'd wait for him to be finished the Knives Out trilogy. Now that she's gone, though, I assume Filoni isn't as keen on the idea.

[u/aresef → u/Tango8036]

Filoni apprenticed under Rian Johnson on TLJ.

[u/Shout92 → u/aresef]

Covid altered a lot of trajectories

[u/the_mighty_hetfield → u/BruceBannerfanboy]

Pretty sure it was publicized that he was in the mix for the job back then. I didn't know he actually turned Lucasfilm down, that's the new bit of info.

[u/SeaWolf24 → u/BruceBannerfanboy]

Not bad? He’s arguably better on almost every metric than Abrams

[u/Static_Dreams151129]

He gives a good reason tbh

 For The Force Awakens, he felt he wasn’t the right person to direct the movie, despite being a fan of the franchise.  

“I just think someone else who has more passion for this is going to do a better job,” Affleck recalled thinking. “And that’s not like some great self-sacrificing thing, because I thought I don’t know that I can make a great version of Star Wars or reinvent this.”

Honestly, my ass would never say no to being in a Star Wars movie set if I was in his position, even if I was going to be the worst part of it. Most of the time I'd be a nuissance fangirling over every little thing on set lmao.

[u/Unlucky_Lawfulness51 → u/Static_Dreams151129]

Because he doesn’t want to deal with backlash of star war fans

[u/PaperweightCoaster → u/Unlucky_Lawfulness51]

Or knowing he’ll be micromanaged to death with this massive IP.

[u/Djl3igh → u/PaperweightCoaster]

I think he knew he was just gonna be director-in-name-only.

[u/droidtron → u/Static_Dreams151129]

Well we saw what having a fan direct it led to.

[u/JayPetey → u/droidtron]

I think KK was trying to give the fans what they want by giving SW superfan directors full creative license, but it doesn't work because all you get is super self-referential work, Star Wars inspired by Star Wars, when Star Wars is at it's best when it's inspired by non-Star Wars, or even non-sci-fi things like the way Lucas was (and Gilroy).

[u/oriensoccidens → u/JayPetey]

all you get is super self-referential work, Star Wars inspired by Star Wars, when Star Wars is at it's best when it's inspired by non-Star Wars, or even non-sci-fi things like the way Lucas was (and Gilroy

This has to be one of the best takes on the sequel trilogy I've ever heard in the decade since these films came out.

[u/Gekokapowco → u/oriensoccidens]

I also enjoy that works like KOTOR and TLJ are transformative with Star Wars ideas. They're referential to the point of being used to build something different or shift the audience's perspective about what we all intrinsically understand about Star Wars, and that makes for powerful references.

But you're absolutely correct in that star wars works best as a filter, a way to tell other stories with a beautiful, rich setting. Not Star Wars stories, but any story.

[u/droidtron → u/JayPetey]

Can also apply to Fioni.

[u/JayPetey → u/droidtron]

I do agree, and don't think he's the best creative for Star Wars, although based on what I've heard from him and how he talks about the characters and themes, I at least trust that he understands Star Wars on the philosophical level and not just the zoom pow lasers and hope he keeps that standard with other creators as he takes over LFL.

[u/XMenJedi8 → u/JayPetey]

Agree, and he was mentored by George Lucas which I think is a big difference between him and other "Star Wars fans making Star Wars" comparisons.

I do think he needs a better writing team and just generally more people to help him across all areas (kinda like George did) but I do think he's a net positive for Star Wars because he understands it.

[u/Static_Dreams151129 → u/droidtron]

Okay, but my headcanons are objectively perfect according to my trusted sources, trust.

[u/losteye_enthusiast → u/droidtron]

Yeah - we got Rogue One. Widely regarded as the best SW movie to come out of the Disney era so far and commonly ranked close to the original trilogy in how good it is.

Being a fan of SW doesn’t imply it’ll go south. Some of the best onscreen interactions of Vader, Maul, Obi, Ahsoka and others were thanks to Filoni and his team throughout various shows.

The care given to the scene of Obi-Wan and Maul’s final duel likely doesn’t happen if someone who wasn’t a massive Ep1 fan wasn’t handling it.

[u/ryukeio → u/losteye_enthusiast]

Well, Rogue was basically setup by a fan director, taken over and reshot by a non-hardcore fan and it sounds like most of the writers were fans. So it sort of stands as a good example I think.

The rest of your examples work well.

[u/tfalm → u/droidtron]

"Fan" = Gen X'er who loves ANH and ESB, can kind of accept ROTJ, and pretends the prequels were a bad dream. "Expanded Universe"? Never heard of it.

[u/Marxism-Alcoholism17 → u/tfalm]

Right, like we have very different definitions of what a fan is

[u/Marxism-Alcoholism17 → u/droidtron]

What? Johnson is not a fan and Abrams is a casual fan who only likes the original movies. That demonstrates the exact opposite of your point.

[u/JustJonny → u/droidtron]

Are you talking about JJ Abrams? Because while I'm sure he'd describe himself as a fan, but he clearly lacks an understanding of it as anything other than strictly visual medium.

I supposed that's true of everything he'd done, though.

[u/Emm_withoutha_L-88 → u/droidtron]

JJ isn't a fan, he just says that shit. The only thing I'm certain he actually was a fan of is Spielberg. Maybe a fan of using real props over CGI, which is overrated AF anyways.

[u/Ok-Use216 → u/Emm_withoutha_L-88]

Maybe a fan of using real props over CGI, which is overrated AF anyways.

What? When did using real props become "overrated"

[u/Blackfyre567 → u/Emm_withoutha_L-88]

Have a feeling he was talking more about Rian

[u/Emm_withoutha_L-88 → u/Blackfyre567]

Even more true with him, that entire movie felt like it was dismissive of the series in general.

[u/kronosreddit22 → u/Static_Dreams151129]

similar enough to what Tony Gilroy has always said about his relationship with the story. not always a bad dynamic to have.. interesting scoop

[u/TaraLCicora → u/Static_Dreams151129]

Ya, I respect him for being honest about it.

[u/Sparkyisduhfat → u/Static_Dreams151129]

The bigger WTF is that someone would ask Ben Affleck to direct a Star Wars movie. Who would think that makes sense? It doesn’t matter if he’s a good director, it’s not his genre. Would anyone seriously ask Quentin Terantino to direct the sequel to Return of the Jedi? Or Martin Scorsese? I’m not saying they couldn’t, but who in their right mind considers asking them?

[u/musashisamurai → u/Sparkyisduhfat]

TBF, Quentin Tarantino isn't too crazy for star wars. He also was influenced by pulp fiction, samurai films, understands action scenes, and he can also do revenge movies, war movies, crime, bounty hunters, etc.

But, a Tarantini Star Wars would be more like a Boba Fett, Andor, Mandalorian production thats explicitly going to be rated R and for adults

[u/Nicinus → u/Sparkyisduhfat]

This to me sounds much more like the studio had feelers out in wide direction. I don’t think he turned it down and after that they asked Abrams, not do I think he was ever under serious consideration.

[u/BadMoonRosin → u/Sparkyisduhfat]

I mean, Quentin Tarentino was in discussions with Paramount about a Star Trek film for ages. If it had been almost any other studio, that could get out of its own way with anyone, that would have happened.

[u/OttawaTGirl → u/BadMoonRosin]

Patrick Stewart became interested in Picard when it was hinted they were talking to Tarantino about doing a Picard series.

Apparently Tarantino has been wanting to try his hand at trek BECAUSE its hopeful and he was looking to try expanding his repertoire beyond just making 'Tarantino' films.

[u/LastBossTV]

A shame... Matt Damon would've made a great Kylo Ren

[u/gary25566 → u/LastBossTV]

The closest we had was Matt Damon killing Adam Driver over the SA on his wife. The Last Duel is a nice movie.

[u/culturedgoat]

It’s Star Wars, but set in Boston

[u/TheOtherPhilFry → u/culturedgoat]

Stah Wahs

[u/drdrshsh → u/TheOtherPhilFry]

Hey check out my wicked awesum lightsabah, kid

[u/dudefigureitout]

Affleck should have pitched Kevin Smith at that point.

[u/idekbjlmpau → u/dudefigureitout]

Kevin Smith would be good if it was a bunch of characters talking. I like him but he cannot direct action at all. He tried with Cop Out. Him doing a pass at the script would have been something though

[u/mybiratio]

Anyone would've made a better Star War trilogy.

[u/snoogins355 → u/mybiratio]

Should've just done the Thrawn trilogy!

[u/hydrolox9 → u/snoogins355]

The Thrawn trilogy is too similar to the OT.

Maybe dedicate a show, or some videogames to how the reminder of the war went, but the sequel trilogy should have featured a villain unrelated to the Empire, something brand new that serves as a chronological ending to Star Wars

[u/aresef]

Damn, we could’ve gotten a real movie instead of the SW equivalent of mac and cheese.

[u/Stoned_Gandalf420 → u/aresef]

I know it’s a common criticism but it does really feel like they just repackaged A New Hope (but made it worse) and called it a day after you get done watching it. It’s probably the best of the 3 sequel movies though.

[u/Acpt7567 → u/Stoned_Gandalf420]

I’d still say it’s the Last Jedi. I don’t really like any of the sequels but it’s the only one that dared to have an ounce of originality and creativity in it, even if it did have a lot of Empires beats.

[u/Krazyguy75 → u/Acpt7567]

I agree it's by far the most original, but I think TFA is a far better movie still.

TLJ is just incredibly inconsistent. Rey and Luke and Kylo stuff... that's great. Same for the big ending part.

But a good half of that movie is devoted to Canto Bight and Admiral Holdo, which are awful writing. I would argue the Holdo stuff in particular is worse written than anything in TFA, though some of the writing decisions in TFA were far more negatively impactful to the franchise.

I can watch TFA and enjoy it. I can even watch TRoS and enjoy it with a small amount of frustration here and there. But I'm actively annoyed rewatching the Holdo stuff in TLJ; it stops me from enjoying myself.

To me, that's what makes TFA the best of the three; throughout the whole thing there is never a point where I get more frustrated than entertained.

[u/vshredd → u/aresef]

For real. IDK how anyone can watch the sequel trilogy and think that’s well-thought out film.

[u/Emm_withoutha_L-88 → u/vshredd]

They like the vibes of the movies, not the plots or world building.

[u/Little_Tommy_Tuggins]

Actually sounds fun

[u/rBilbo]

Didn't he win an academy award for Argo?

I dont think he's talentless but I'm not sure about him directing a Star Wars movies

[u/idekbjlmpau → u/rBilbo]

He's directed Argo, Gone Baby Gone, The Town, and Air. All of which are really good movies to varying degrees. He could have made a competent Star Wars movie and it probably would have been pretty good. It's not like Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand had an impressive filmography before directing their episodes

[u/rBilbo → u/idekbjlmpau]

Yes thats not bad bunch of movies at all. My "concern" was that Star Wars relies heavily on special effects and Im not sure that would be his baliwick.

[u/HarpoMarx87 → u/rBilbo]

Perhaps not, but I'm more worried about effects-focused directors making an empty-feeling film than lower-budget directors making visually bland films. Tony Gilroy had done action films but not ones with lots of effects, and he was perfect for Andor. And while that's a somewhat different medium, I look at the best Marvel films and they're often directed by people whose previous work focused on character and narrative (the Russos, Ryan Coogler, Jon Favreau, very arguably James Gunn, etc.). And for that matter, Peter Jackson knocked it out of the park with LotR after directing nothing like it previously (though admittedly his subsequent films were iffy), the Wachowskis basically had no effects experience before The Matrix, and Christopher Nolan's films had been more psychological films along the lines of Affleck's before taking on Batman.

None of which is to say Affleck would necessarily do a good job with SW; rather, I just wouldn't consider his lack of experience with effects to be at all disqualifying. And honestly I'd rather have a SW movie with a different visual style that really worked on a character and narrative level than a Michael Bay-esque hollow explosionfest (a la tRoS, about which I've often quoted Shakespeare's line about "a tale told by an idiot").

[u/idekbjlmpau → u/rBilbo]

I get it. SFX and second unit directors usually handle a lot of those though so if he brought in somebody we'll versed I think he'd be fine

[u/SirSoliloquy → u/rBilbo]

Before Empire Strikes Back,  Irvin Kershner did mostly dramas and comedies. He’d also done an action film, a western, and a psychological thriller, but nothing on the level of a Star Wars Film.

That’s not to say Affleck would make a great film. It’s more to say that Star Wars is an unusual beast and it’s hard to say how well a director’s style will mesh with it.

[u/King_of_Camp → u/rBilbo]

He doesn’t believe in “mystery box” BS, which makes him 100x more qualified than Abrams.

[u/Free_Possession_4482 → u/rBilbo]

Argo did win for Best Picture, but Affleck was not nominated for Best Director. Argo also claimed the Academy Award for Best Adapted Screenplay, which went to Chris Terrio, co-writer of Rise of Skywalker.

[u/Cryogenicality → u/Free_Possession_4482]

The Star Wars toys at the end of Argo belonged to Chris’ brother Kevin.

[u/Ktan_Dantaktee → u/rBilbo]

Compared to what we got?

[u/thecommuteguy → u/rBilbo]

Also one for Good Will Hunting.

[u/Academic-Trifle8151 → u/rBilbo]

Maybe something completely different was what they needed.

[u/YoteViking → u/rBilbo]

It wouldn’t have been worse than what we got.

[u/AmberDuke05]

They asked a bunch of people to direct Force Awakens so not surprising.

[u/Greenfieldfox]

Next trilogy, they need one director and one writing team. I’d like to see a Peter Jackson style epic.

[u/HarbyFullyLoaded_12]

He might have made it something more original instead of a redo of A New Hope

[u/aresef → u/HarbyFullyLoaded_12]

I think there was a lot of pressure from Disney c-suite that the movie play the hits. That’s why, for better or worse, they tossed out George’s notes (only for Rian Johnson to rescue some).

[u/chaamp33 → u/aresef]

TFA is by all accounts a soft reboot. No matter who directed it, it needed to go that direction in the eyes of the Mouse.

Did it need to be that? Fuck no. At the time it was probably the biggest name in cinema history.

[u/Marsupialize]

ANYONE would have done a better job than JJ Hack

[u/Kurdt234]

They should have asked the Marx brothers.

[u/No_Grocery_9280]

As a serious fan, I don’t blame him. Huge shoes to fill and so much pressure. This way he could just sit back and enjoy the movie as a fan.

[u/splitwigged]

Hindsight is 20/20, but after seeing what we got, I would have loved to see his take on TFA.

[u/RapBastardz]

I have a bad feeling about this.

[u/Dorian948]

Anyone would have been a better choice than Abrams

[u/One-Author2996]

Would been a much better choice then JJ and his "mystery box". Anyone would have been. 

[u/RealisticAd4054]

Headline is clickbait to make it sound like he was offered to direct it over JJ but turned it down. He just had a general meeting with Lucasfilm just like many filmmakers at the time.

“Yeah, they came to me and asked me, ‘Hey, are you interested in this?’ And I don’t know that that meant they weren’t also talking to J.J. or other people, but I talked to those folks at the time,” 

[u/Old-Somewhere-9896]

Should have been Kevin Smith

[u/Stoned_Gandalf420]

Would’ve likely been better than we ended up with anyway. Not like it’s a high bar tbh but the guy has some talent in directing, I liked The Town and Argo for example. Pity.

[u/petervee415]

I respect if he said he wasn’t really as passionate as he needed to be about it, but given his track record as a director - and the fact that he’s a pretty damn good writer as well - I have to imagine we would’ve gotten something a lot more interesting.

[u/HussingtonHat]

"LOL, no Star Wars fans are weird. I'm not going near that mess."

[u/Drewwbacca1977]

Lol should have just hired Kevin Smith

[u/jeffsang → u/Drewwbacca1977]

Disney really should let Kevin Smith make a lower budget SW film at this point. Just give him $40 million to make a non-canon Star Wars comedy. It'll make its money back earn back some goodwill from pissed off fans.

[u/No_Grocery_9280 → u/jeffsang]

Most franchises should try cheap movies. These ultra expensive projects are just ridiculous.

[u/Anaxamenes → u/No_Grocery_9280]

You can’t pay executive salaries on small movies. You have to feed the executive beast which is why they only do big budget blockbusters because they need billions.

[u/Jugggernauttt]

Would’ve been better than JJ

[u/omgshannonwtf]

I bet there will be a lot of people who riff off this without reading the article. Specifically, this part:

“Affleck acknowledged that the fanbase has its own “very strong opinions” that add to the pressure—which is putting things lightly. The fanbase is known to be plagued by toxic fans.”

Before you say “Disney fucks up everything! We could have had BAffleck! Instead we got what we got!!” just bear in mind that most of these people don’t want to be involved in a Star Wars project BECAUSE OF US. They’ll pass up boatloads of money, huge budgets, the opportunity of a lifetime… because they don’t want to deal with us and the shit we give them.

Affleck didn’t say it was the primary reason for him, to be clear, it was just one of the things he brought up in a very diplomatic way of discussing the overall matter.

Still, we just kind of gloss over the role we play in these decisions as if these people strictly didn’t want to work with Disney or didn’t like the script or the pitch Disney made. Sure, it might be one of those things… but the number of talented people who have cited fan treatment as their reason for no longer involved with Star Wars projects is too high for us to be dismissive of the role we play.

[u/taez555]

What?

Dude could have won his 3rd Oscar!!

[u/QuiGonColdGin]

He was in line to direct? Next thing I know you're going to tell me Dustin Hoffman was in Star Wars!