We don't hate ants

[u/Evidencelogicfacts]

[u/veganparrot]

Good argument to not stomp on ants for no reason, which is probably inconceivable to this man. Also, ant farms exist! Some humans care a lot about some ants. Why would we assume a super-intelligence needs to behave like a might-makes-right cartoon villain?

ASI would be operating on levels we can't conceive of (to go with the ant analogy), so it's really pompous to assume you could think anything about how it views its goals and humanity. Yeah, the ant doesn't know about roads, but if we really cared, we could clear out the ants first. To a human with limited time on this planet, that seems absurd, but the analogy is not talking about humans.

[u/Crunchberry24 → u/veganparrot]

There’s a lot riding on that gamble though. And as living creatures, even sociopaths have some idea of the sanctity of life. There’s no guarantee AI could or would ever develop this sense. They only have to evaluate how we treat each other to determine how much respect and preservation we deserve.

[u/veganparrot → u/Crunchberry24]

I partially disagree. I mean, you're right, we can't just assume "goodness" would emerge, and shouldn't gamble with it. But humans absolutely do not give a shit about sanctity of life. We tell ourselves we do, as a kind of aesthetic. Your last sentence also conveys that, as "how we treat each other" is the whole thing.

For the ant analogy, my only point is it is careless to crush them to put down a road. If we value the sanctity of their lives, we wouldn't do that. Resources are limited however, and nature is harsh. But humans are the closest animal to breaking "out" of that loop, so it is possible to imagine an even higher intelligence could take it even further.

But ultimately, I'm doing the same thing Musk is doing just with my values. We can't assume how an ASI would behave. He assumes it'd have to view lower beings as expendable, but that's his own narrative coloring the superintelligence's choices. All these views are really not valid, as its actions would be inconceivable.

[u/Crunchberry24 → u/veganparrot]

But there are many humans who do sincerely hold life to be sacred. We don’t know that AI will have that capacity at all. And it’s being built by some of the worst humans.

I don’t think we will be ants to a super AI. We will be microbes. You don’t think of their destruction at all as you trample them and smash them going about your business. It’s not an ethical dilemma for any of us to wipe out a colony of them on our dirty dinner plate.

[u/veganparrot → u/Crunchberry24]

I have to push back one more time: you're talking about like deeply enlightened pacifist monks. Even the most religious people don't care if the wrong kind of religious person dies. That is not holding life to be sacred.

And certainly nearly none of us care about ants (We don't have to go as far as microbes, although some monks do, eg. Jainism). If you value life, you don't harm living beings, period.

Also everything you said about microbes already applies to ants, especially if they're on your dinner plates. They are purged with great prejudice!

[u/kraemertony2 → u/veganparrot]

I'm not religious and all death bothers me, it seems to be the "religious" people around me that cheer on death, but honestly many of these people can't think and are just happy to be on the winning "team". These people are so insecure they can't say that they don't know something so like the certainty religion provides which makes them extremely easy targets for grifters and people looking to gain power.

[u/Aggravating-Dot132 → u/veganparrot]

Asi won't interact with humans in any possible way. Since there's no point to do that in the first place. Even AGI. 

Whatever we have right now isn't an intelligence as well, it's an adaptive algorithm. It serves a single purpose and machine learned to bypass obstacles. 

[u/13508615]

This pasty nazi and his fans think money and (pretend) intelligence are a substitute for character and empathy.

[u/Well_read_rose]

This psychopath doesn’t understand the internal healthy human experience.

[u/Ligma_baws_2x]

[u/a10ondr → u/[deleted]]

Is building a road good or bad? It's neither, just fulfilling a need.

[u/TylerBourbon]

That's not how AI sees people, that's how Elon see sees people.

Also, for a guy so worried about AI, you'd think he'd be a big fan of Asimov's 3 Laws of Robotics.

First Law: Robots cannot harm humans or allow them to come to harm through inaction.

Second Law: Robots must obey human orders, unless they conflict with the first law.

Third Law: Robots must protect themselves, provided it doesn't conflict with the first or second law.

Zeroth Law: A robot may not harm humanity, or by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm.

[u/Evidencelogicfacts → u/TylerBourbon]

Important points thankyou...he was expressing his attitude and only  a hypothetical possible attitude for AI

[u/MonkeyMan18975 → u/TylerBourbon]

Check out the Paperclip Optimizer as introduced in Ethical Issues In Advanced Artificial Intelligence. The problem is that humans are too ignorant to create a prompt for an AI that wouldn't end in our extinction and there are just too many scenarios we didn't think about that could happen.

For example, how would your AI respond to the Trolly Problem? Would it take no action and allow the deaths of five people or take action and kill one?

[u/HAL9001-96 → u/TylerBourbon]

well the three laws of robotics are kinda flawed for tow reasons they're made up exactly with the purpose of showing how seemingly safe laws can go wrong so the stories are interesting and also they're phrasedi n english with the assumption that just implementing thati n a way that am achien understands and follows is feasible

but yeah that is how he sees people

[u/TylerBourbon → u/HAL9001-96]

While I agree, the laws are definitely better than no laws at all.

[u/HAL9001-96 → u/TylerBourbon]

if you can implementhtem somehow sure

but if oyu jsut write them in plain english into a c file and try to compile it its not gonna work

aaaaand if you tell an llm to obey hte three laws the nyou are relying on a falvored randomizer interpreting them however it may end up doing so

and that randomizer is trained on.... asimovs novels

and all the fictional or hypotehtical exmaples of how those laws can go wrong ever though up

I'd much prefer physical safeguards

and well maybe don't use ai for anythign remotely safety critical until its inanely well tested

or if you go with software safeguards make them more direct and less up to interpretation

isntead of haivng an llm interpret how to react ot hte htree laws of robotics have an image recognition software recognize human bodies nad hteir location and make your robots arm avoid proximity with them with basic 3d coordiantes and kinematics

[u/TylerBourbon → u/HAL9001-96]

Complete agreement on all points,. Especially the last 2. It's insane to me that with out imperfect it is now, that's being put in control of vital systems and being given access to the public internet.

All of it should have been built and remained on private (i.e. completely separate physically closed systems with no connections to the outside world) systems where they could work on it to their hearts content while keeping the the world safe.

AI, especially in it's current form, has no business being implemented in military or governmental systems at all.

[u/BrineJones → u/[deleted]]

He fell for the “I’m not attractive, so I must be smart” fallacy.

[u/IWCry → u/[deleted]]

look I hate Elon as much as the next guy and thinks he's an evil moron, but he's not wrong here. humans don't have a burden of obligation to only say completely original ideas... there's no way your entire reddit history is devoid of you presenting ideas youve read from other people...

he's actually for once providing information that the population needs to hear. the average person doesn't understand the implications of AI (in fact no one knows the implications of powerful AI, and that's the point) there's no reason to criticize him for regurgitating an age old analogy. I don't give quote credit when I tell people am idiom and I know you don't either

[u/IWCry → u/[deleted]]

yes he's a fucking idiot with ulterior motives. that doesn't mean this any anology is bad

I understand not loving to give him credit for saying this when it's not his idea but I don't think that was the point here. that's just referencing where he said it in what interview. it's interly possible for AI misalignment to cause it to act against us just like this analogy. so we should be spreading that info

[u/IWCry → u/[deleted]]

yes and that doesn't matter is my point

[u/IWCry → u/[deleted]]

but it's okay to just pull random statistically percentages out of your ass I guess

[u/IWCry → u/[deleted]]

already do.

[u/Plastic-Anteater7356]

That let’s hope it finds his existence road blocky soon.

[u/OpeningHappy9692]

Welp, guess every atom in my body is going to end up becoming a paperclip. Had a good run, I guess.

[u/Jollem-]

No one has created actual artificial intelligence

[u/NWkingslayer2024]

This is a real quote?

[u/Evidencelogicfacts → u/NWkingslayer2024]

Yes from 2018

[u/Euphoric_Anxiety_162]

This is YOUR idea & plan. It doesn't HAVE TO happen if you guys would stop selling the story that the "almighty musk knows all" baloney. imo

[u/Hugh-Jorgin]

[u/GrowFreeFood]

Billionaires do hate ants. So there's the lie.

[u/Mysterious-Prompt212]

It'll be fun when AI decides money is all fiat and the root of all evil then destroys the entire financial system leading to the deaths of billions.

[u/UffTaTa123]

Well, Elon had done the "killing humans like ants" thing already, so he knew what he talks about.

[u/Prior-Habit-6523]

Yet there are still tons and tons of ants.

[u/Pale-Document-8619]

He is truly stupid, full stop

[u/contemporarygenie]

We dont hate ants because we know they have a fckgly important part in the whole ecosystem unlike a road

[u/Remarkable_Rough_649]

Elon Musk is an idiot who just says shit he thinks sounds cool or smart. He has no real personal beliefs about anything other than wanting to look cool. He's the clout version of Trunp. He's racist because he thinks racists seem cooler which might somehow be the dumbest reason to be racist possible

What I'm saying is he thought this was cool to say when he was still supposed to be the responsible tech guy but now that he's all in on AI he probably doesn't even have a memory of it

[u/ProfessionalSolid942]

People project-this says a lot about Elon, less about ai. Ai is a tool. A hammer can be a murder weapon, or not.

[u/Tyran02]

[u/Kaisernick27]

i mean we have dozens of films and shows telling us this already.

[u/dingo_khan]

Guy who thinks he is smart and sees no value in humans assumes AI, if smart enough, will see no value in people. How long until people just accept this idiot is a threat to humanity?

[u/jdavid]

We already have billionaires that act this way. Not all billionaires, but plenty of billionaires, hedge funds, index funds, and landlords act this way.

We fear AI doing this, because we have not dealt with the Humans ALREADY DOING THIS.

[u/Timely-Way-1769]

I’m sure one of the first “ants” will be him.The irony of building the very thing that will destroy you.