Dude is just circling money between his companies. The US was actually good at busting cartels back in the day, but then Reagan happened, and you guys stopped doing it.
Exactly. And he pulled more personal profit out of it than those companies have earned cumulated over their existence. And that‘s even ignoring the losses. So all he does is selling stock to fund his life. It‘s the most brilliant scheme ever!!
This is what perplexity spits out. I leave the fact checking to you.
Bottom line
• Vested/current economic-value proxy: about $160 billion across both CEO roles.
• Tesla: that is around 2.9× its cumulative retained earnings.
• SpaceX: it has a $41.9 billion accumulated deficit, so CEO equity value is not being matched by lifetime GAAP profitability.
• Potential future awards: add roughly $304 billion of stated accounting/notional value, but they are conditional and should be treated separately—not as compensation received.
And that doesn't include that he is getting tax funds to ventures such as Space X to the tune of billions of dollars. Which he then uses to bail out his other companies and personally enrich himself. We are all unwilling bottoms in the scheme.
I have said the same thing so many times to people who just say it's a private company. Most people do not see how shitty this part is. We are buying cybertrucks with our tax dollars.
Its all manipulation. Literally every piece of government meant to regulate this stuff has been broken up.
Its not even loopholes anymore. Its pure disregard by people rich enough to manually move the markets as they want.
Ive long ago stopped investing in regular stocks. And im starting to think even my roth amd 401 are in jeopardy because this cant last forever. They will eat us alive then begin eating each other. It is by definotion out of control and in the hands of multi-billionaires whims.
How does this shit get upvotes? Both Tesla and spacex are literally profitable companies. Tesla makes and sells the best selling EV in the world for chrissake.
It gets upvotes because you're wrong and he speaks the truth. SpaceX directly absorbed xAIs debt and on paper as it stands now is deeply unprofitable. Since Tesla just does circular business deals like in this post, thats why xAI is buying billions of dollars of tesla batteries, its still profitable, but since their gross profit is only 1.1B a year, this deal alone is squeezing Tesla's FCF and Tesla shareholders can expect a bit less this quarter. Also byd global marketshare of the EV pie is 19%, then the chinese corp that owns polestar is at 9.5% then Volkswagen at 8.5%, THEN Tesla at 7.8%. Elon's companies are amongst the biggest steaming piles of shit on the market and propped up on memes and hype
It‘s not about the technical details. It‘s about the big picture. Inflating a companies value with questionable narratives and practices. Just not on billion, but on trillion scale instead. And hiding in plain sight.
I saw that in business school. 8 asked the finance professor, and he said it was legal but unethical. Many suddenly woke up in that class and asked what I had just asked....
No some of it is the same. Create a stock, use stock to buy assets produced by your other company, then sell those assets again to inflate stock, selling to your other company for inflated stock....take out cash loans on inflated stock.
Yes there is a product but its buying and selling is all nonsense.
Partially true. The main thing in Enron was the special purpose entities. So they took loans for Enron and they booked it as income what inflate the value of the company. And you don't have any clue Enron Musk does the same or not. Look like he does it (SEC and settlement, CalPers, Tesla money in SpaceX,...)
lol the ones losing most are the poeple who voted for him, he's not going after the rich and famous. You're the ones losing everything and cheering for it
Cartels are horizontal. Like, if all egg producers coordinated to raise prices, that’s a cartel. What is going on with these companies is vertical, not a cartel, and totally legal.
I wrote all this just foe your comment to be deleted, so you gonna get it anyway:
You dont think new realities will change how old terms are defined? The cartel laws in US&A are more than 100years old?
Cartel have many diffenitions in the world. And the vertikal agreement between space and telsa is.... in global tech they dont have to communicate like an old cartel. Coordinate data is quite simple in a tech world and Elon controls a lot of it. Can trade data, hardware etc at prices he wants at the companies he wants. Artificial demands and market distiortion - classical cartel? (Could starve out buys if anyone wanted to buy a shitty tesla. But he still gets a guaranteed buyer)
Therefor we only have th illusion of independence between the firms and they serve like a cartel in a mordern world.
But if you only understand words according to their meaning according to US&A law, its not a cartel.
But still very cartellike.
This was written very fast. Hope it makes sense. Sorry for autocorrect its not in english
You dont think new realities will change how old terms are defined? The cartel laws in US&A are more than 100years old?
No, I don't. Cartel have a very specific legal and business definition. If we need to describe new things, we will make new words.
Also, don't you think it's silly to say my definition wrong wrong and then claim your usage is correct...accounting for some fictional future where the definition is different?
Dude....
Cartel have many diffenitions in the world. And the vertikal agreement between space and telsa is.... in global tech they dont have to communicate like an old cartel. Coordinate data is quite simple in a tech world and Elon controls a lot of it. Can trade data, hardware etc at prices he wants at the companies he wants. Artificial demands and market distiortion - classical cartel? (Could starve out buys if anyone wanted to buy a shitty tesla. But he still gets a guaranteed buyer)
No, cartels in business, law, and english have a very specific definition that is not reliant on tech.
A cartel is a group of companies the formally coordinate to stop competing with each other. That's it. Importantly, SpaceX and Tesla are NOT competitors and not coordinating to stop competing in the market. Therefore they are not a cartel. Their relationship is that of a buyer and supplier, you know, completely normal stuff.
Therefor we only have th illusion of independence between the firms and they serve like a cartel in a mordern world.
There is ZERO illusion of independence and that doesn't matter. They are, by definition, not a cartel and not doing anything illegal that violates anti-trust laws.
But if you only understand words according to their meaning according to US&A law, its not a cartel. But still very cartellike.
I literally only every understand words according to their meaning. If you are doing something different...well...you should stop.
And it's only cartel-like cause you have no clue what you're talking about.
This was written very fast. Hope it makes sense. Sorry for autocorrect its not in english
English not being your first language makes a lot of sense...
Lol laws never change acoording to what it is governing and ruling?
I never said laws don't change. I said legal definitions rarely ever/almost never do for something like "cartel" which describes a thing.
Words have many meanings... And just cause something is legal doenst mean its supoose to.
I don't care about "words" some words do. In this case, cartel is unambiguous.
How is there not an illusion of indepence in space x and tesla and the bygger tech companies trading bags of money between them?
They are owned by the same person and everyone on the planet knows it...obviously.
If you are so clever you should be able to make an analyzis of this in a cartel perspective?
No, because there is no cartel perspective...because there is no cartel. There is nothing even resembling a cartel going on between Tesla and SpaceX. That's the whole point.
You are thinking about monopolies. Cartels are a form of monopoly where multiple companies/organizations form agreements to become monopolies. Vertical integration (buying the supplies, distributors, or them working in collaboration) is also a monopolistic practice and can be illegal.
Vertical integration is not a monopoly, it’s perfectly legal. It’s not a monopoly until the company is the sole provider of a specific good or service to the market.
A cartel is a group of companies that work together to stop competing against each other. They may do things like price fix, limit supply…etc.
How are there so many people that don’t know the fundamentals around here?
Yeah. Except. He's actually putting them to use... when no one else on your soil produces a technology you do and trust, why wouldn't you buy them up for your own business to meet its needs?
You can try to sue. But the rules are, it first should go to arbitration. And by buying the shares, you might have accepted the rules. Not sure, what the legal practice would do with that.
But if you buy shares through your broker on an exchange are you accepting anything? I can see how the IPO might have conditions but can they be applied to freely traded shares?
As a shareholder, you have a responsibility to review the articles of incorporation which spell out your rights as a shareholder for your particular class of shares. This is where you will find restrictions and the proper procedures in order to challenge a decision a board makes and the path.
Well, I am not an expert and in the end a judge probably has to decide. But I remember there were share of a company in Australia and they had the rule, that only part of the company equity was paid, so the share current shareholder were required to pay the missing money. At least that was normal and complied with the rules of the exchange.
Exactly this. The share prices reflect the number of people who idolise an out in the open fascist. Just like the DJT price.
If he does a Mathew Perry, a lot of people will lose a LOT of money. Or even, if suddenly the majority do wake up one day and decide he isn't someone who they should be admiring.
Sometimes power is the real product, much like trumps crypto ventures. I'm sure plenty of the valuation is dark money propping up americas most prominent right wing oligarch. Being able to undermine the most powerful country on earth with some market manipulation is a bargain when you think of american societal collapse as the real product.
Elon Musk just donated $5 million to a super PAC supporting Vivek in Ohio for governor.
Likely future payment to push through a data center in our state if he gets elected.
IMHO musks love for himself is starting to get played out. It’s been easy for people who have their eyes open to see he’s just another greedy billionaire.
Ironically Tesla sells new cars at auction all the damn time to pump volume numbers. Them selling 1,000+ CTs for MSRP to Elon's other company is hilariously transparent.
That’s like 2000 Cybertrucks or 8% ever made. What is their explanation for needing $131 million worth of Cybertrucks, are they scrapping them to make Starlink dishes out of them?
It would be nifty to know what percentage of Cybertrucks sell at full retail.
Also, here’s the answer I got when I googled what the normal truck fleet purchase discount was “The normal discount for fleet purchases of trucks can range from $4,000 to $14,000 off MSRP, depending on the type of vehicle and manufacturer. Discounts may vary based on specific programs and eligibility criteria.”
"gov gives spacex money for projects" The government gives SpaceX money to provide services, those services still have to be provided regardless of what SpaceX spends money on.
The mega packs are actually a good product and if they actually do require resilientsy for a launch or something this makes sense.
Otherwise they'd be buying BYD or some other Chinese manufacturers batteries. Although there are a few US manufacturers of alternative batteries like ESS.
Anyways, unlike the cyber truck thing I don't think there's much to see here.
I think you’re right on capability. But we don’t know what the discount was.
And we do know the trucks were at full retail where fleet buyers usually get a big discount. Given that I wouldn’t assume the packs were properly priced.
Elon is just using his companies like someone in debt covering credit card debt with another credit card.
Cybertucks not selling? Space X will buy them. Space X not making money? Let's just tack on X Ai. Twitter is a disaster and a money drain, let's get Space X to buy that too.
the tldr for their excuse is they need it for their data centers.
So, they are powering their datacenters with natural gas but since AI power demands can increase faster than the natural gas turbines can accommodate, they need a battery backup so the meme factory functions quicker...
It really is, a lot of businesses do it. I remember there was a parent company that had a consulting company that was consulting its other companies in its portfolio. When I learned about this I never looked at these companies the same.
They probably need them for The Terafab, a joint venture between...wait for it...SpaceX and Tesla. Two totally separate, unrelated companies with no collusion or plans to ultimately merge into one company in order to shed debt and increase executive net worth what so ever.
A rocket was first landed in 1994 mate. Mass satellite broadband works but is not a viable business. If you aren't paying attention when driving your car you need to be jailed.
Money goes into SpaceX money goes out of SPaceX and into XAI and Tesla, then those companies pay Spacex for starlink access and spacex gets money again to give back.
a variety of things.. gas, solar, wind, etc. But the why seems more important than the what.. since almost all electric grids are fuel based, the difference between having a giant battery bank of your own is less about saving money from whatever supplemental energy production they use and more about not going down during blackouts.
literally every major ai or tech company have these in place. And it stands to reason the guy that has a company which produces batteries would choose to buy the batteries his company produces lol.
It's not his own solar or wind because he hasn't built any. So if they are connected at all they are charging from the grid or onsite gas turbines. And you're lying because other AI companies do not have these.
"Nope they don't" followed by "they more likely".. proves you dont know.. and youre just guessing lol.. Google exists, you can literally take 5 seconds to Google before saying something you clearly dont know about and it would save you the embarrassment of being wrong, followed by the mental gymnastics youll now have to do in order to stick to your beliefs because your ego wont let you admit youre wrong.
Why give money to another company when Tesla builds some of the best batteries? They also make solar panels and solar roofs. Should Tesla buy a Ford truck for their mobile service drivers? What are we talking about here?
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u/North-Outside-5815 Aug 11 '26
Dude is just circling money between his companies. The US was actually good at busting cartels back in the day, but then Reagan happened, and you guys stopped doing it.