r/SnyderCut • u/HorrorCow637 • Jul 16 '26
Discussion Snyder haters purposefully misunderstand the Martha scene
This scene is a character climax, not a narrative one. It shows that Bruce finally understands Clark is human too. It's not about the NAME, it's about the woman herself. Why do Snyder haters insist on pretending like it's all about the name Martha, and that it's not the culmination of their arcs the whole movie?
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u/factslap Aug 01 '26
“Martha” It was the last word his slain Father, Thomas Wayne, said before he died and he obviously remembers it WELL.
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u/playboi3x Jul 19 '26
I understood what happened and I completely didn’t like it. You can’t go from wanting to kill someone to I’ll save your mother in a split second.
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u/Background-Train-104 Jul 21 '26
Yes you can. He thought he was punching up but turns out he was punching down. He thought this is just some powerful alien that doesn't care for humans but it turns out he has a human mother he cares for. That's not nothing.
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u/Bigboythickem Jul 19 '26
These movies coming out under James weirdo gunn are terrible. I'd give anything to have Snyder and Henry back. Supergirl was literally the worst DC movie ever made m.
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u/Ok-Sheepherder7247 Jul 18 '26
I’m a Snyder fan, and I understood what the scene was attempting, but I just found the execution to be terrible.
You’re telling me he has this realisation and drops all his hate because their mothers have the same name?
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u/factslap Aug 01 '26
“Martha” It was the last word his slain Father, Thomas Wayne, said before he died and he obviously remembers it WELL.
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u/HomemadeBee1612 He's never fought us. Not us united. Jul 31 '26
The Martha scene was a beautiful convergence of Superman and Batman's canons. We have Black Panther Wakanda Forever to show how empty and contrived it feels when a hero pulls themselves back from the brink without having SOMETHING to trigger it. Martha was the answer to the question, what is going to make Batman STOP from going through with the final step of his plan? A word that triggers the memory that was supposed to be the defining moment of his life's mission. And a word that leads to Superman being humanized when Lois comes up and says it's his mother. It worked perfectly and brilliantly.
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u/krakniik2992 Jul 20 '26
It is a bloody movie, you don't need to overthink it. It is not real life sheesh.
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u/TransBipolarBear Jul 19 '26
It wasn't that it was that he remembered the fear of losing his mother and this alien he had so much hate for is begging him to save his mother triggering his trauma and he realized he became the killer that killed his mom.
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u/Aerolithe_Lion Jul 20 '26
It’s not just that he relented on killing Kal-El, they instantly became buddies. Picture this scene again, but it’s the joker begging for the life of Martha. Does it end the same? Do they team up and let bygones be bygones… make a superhero pact together?
Don’t forget, this movie started by Bruce watching Kal knock down Wayne Tower and kill everyone he knew inside. He spent the next few years focusing his life on stopping this wonton massacre. The guy who killed his partners, his friends, destroyed his Batmobile, threatened his life, and then spent the last 10 minutes beating the crap out of him. A Reminder that killing isn’t the way is one thing, but it just completely turned into something else seconds later. And now Batman’s paying for his funeral and accepting Kal did all that in the sake of good? Without an explanation even?
I got what Zack was trying when I watched it, but I wish it wasn’t in an otherwise impeccable movie
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u/Cannellelaplusbelle Jul 18 '26
Je pense que la scène fait du sens thématiquement mais est mal amené. Il y a une raison pour laquelle tout le monde s'est moqué de cette scène malheureusement, la façon de le dire faisait très forcé.
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u/FloppyD0G Jul 18 '26
I understand and don’t hate it. I hate most other things about the Snyderverse, primarily the portrayal of Batman. The Martha scene was one of the more redeemable parts of the movie.
The Snyderverse is a story of amazing casting being squandered by a terrible vision for that world.
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u/Bigboythickem Jul 19 '26
Well look at the complete flops of Gunn. Dcu Is dead.
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u/BigDickEnergy1422 Jul 19 '26
one flop does not mean it's dead😭🙏 if that were the case Snyderverse would've died wuicker than it did
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u/Bigboythickem Jul 21 '26
It's dead. Especially if the Paramount deal goes through. The backers for that deal have a much different plan and Gunn ain't it. Dudes DC movies a absolute shit.
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u/FloppyD0G Jul 19 '26
What does that have to do with anything? We are discussing the Snyderverse and the only thing you can talk about is “well what about Gunn?!”
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u/Bigboythickem Jul 21 '26
I was stating that because he said Snyder had a terrible vision. I completely disagree. It's reddit and I can comment where I like.
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u/FloppyD0G Jul 21 '26
Cool, man. If you keep posting enough then I’m sure WB will see all the good things that Bigboytbickem has to say and will fire Gunn and bring back Snyder. Keep at it!
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u/Apprehensive-Ad-636 Jul 17 '26
It is entirely possible to understand something and still dislike it.
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Jul 17 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Fugglymuffin Jul 17 '26
Recently watched the animated movie The Dark Knight Returns Part 2 and that fight slapped.
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u/AtmosphereNo7833 Jul 17 '26
Honestly I gave up trying to explain the scene because you either get it or you don’t same with the scene of Jonathan Kent saying “maybe” like he wasn’t starting a complete sentence. Folks these days just can’t comprehend basic human decency or empathy and it shows by what they like and don’t like.
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u/Horror_Campaign9418 Henry Cavill is Superman Jul 17 '26
People will clown this line but they clap like seals to that garbage cornball spews at the end of diaperman.
You can’t make this stuff up.
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u/Bigboythickem Jul 19 '26
Diaperboy was terrible. I didn't think it could get worse but that flop of shiite supergirl came out.
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Jul 17 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Horror_Campaign9418 Henry Cavill is Superman Jul 17 '26
Thats why they love gunn’s expositional dialogue. They need everything spelled out.
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u/delu_chaos Jul 17 '26
Funny how every comment of people saying this scene is bad refuse to elaborate their opinion "it's just bad bro no cap on god" yeah yeah whatever. This scene is a masterpiece, it shows how much batman got manipulated by luthor to be hateful only to find his humanity in the most human person he ever met, the one he tried to kill. Not only this is poetic, but it's descriptive of our society and how we are manipulated on hating each other while we are all the same species and we should help each other, instead it's easier to ragebait people calling they snyderbots, snydertards, monkeybots etc... just because they like a director that internet propaganda taught them to hate. The hate on snyder not only is forced, it's designed. The inconditionate love for gunn's movie begun even before we had news about the casting, and that tells you everything you have to know
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u/LemonoLemono Jul 19 '26
The symbolism behind the scene is fine but Supes saying “Save Martha” is very unnatural dialogue. It might have come off better if he had said something different.
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u/delu_chaos Jul 19 '26
Y'all say the same thing but 1) no, it's perfect how it is, it's objectively not unnatural 2) you all say this but fail to come up with something better
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u/LemonoLemono Jul 19 '26
Living upto your username I see
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u/delu_chaos Jul 19 '26
Typical snyder hater sterile reply. 0 arguments and just disrespect
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u/LemonoLemono Jul 19 '26
Lol I quite like the Snyder cut. I just think you’re an idiot. You thinking Save Martha is natural dialogue means you need to go outside . You don’t need to pretend Snyder is perfect to be a fan.
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Jul 17 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Most-Flan-9823 Jul 17 '26
I don't think it's about the dynamic as much as it is about Batman being blinded by loss and vengeance. It’s not that Bruce literally thought Superman didn't have a mother; he was just too fueled by rage to care. In that moment, hearing that name forced him to realize Clark is more human than alien. He suddenly saw that by killing him, he was taking away someone's son—mirroring the exact trauma of how his own mother was taken from him. That was my take away. I do understand why some didn't like the connection.
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u/Questi0n1ble Jul 17 '26
It’s different interpretations of the characters i think if you watch extended cut with a fresh perspective and expecting things to be different to the comics you’d enjoy it more and be able to see why some of the writing decisions are how they are. And if you don’t read comics even better.
Now I will give it to you it’s odd that Batman wouldn’t do a background check or something on superman and that’s one of the flaws in the movie but then again Pattisons Batman did awful detective work when goes on a wild goose chase because he dismisses blatant word play when riddler gives him the el rata clue. I can’t remember if Batman made any stupid mistakes in the Nolan trilogy but I reckon he did. My point is most live action Batmans have done stupid shit but batfleck is the only one that gets shit for his.
And when you consider all the context clues within the movie there is a somewhat plausible reason for why Batman wouldn’t bother trying to see if superman was actually a good guy. Dudes been in Gotham for 20 years and he lost his first son, been betrayed multiple times (implied when he argued with Alfred), he’s has seen little to no change within Gotham despite crime fighting for decades, there was a lot of anti superman propaganda, he saw superman’s destructive capabilities up close, and when he retires sees one of his best friends dies during the black zero event. Probably gets to the point where you believe you can simply just see the line between good and bad. But either way it is disingenuous to his character to not be meticulous and checking all the details.
I’m by no means a Snyder glazer btw I can admit there’s more flaws in that universe than Gunns and it was a dangerously bold decision to try and make a cinematic universe with different interpretations of loved characters without having a more comic accurate universe already established. Either way I just find it hard to hate on Snyder when you consider what he managed to give despite all his limitations
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u/Nude_Goldberg Jul 17 '26
He could have just said "my mom", referring to Martha by her first name isn't very superman. It's stupid and clunky.
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u/Horror_Campaign9418 Henry Cavill is Superman Jul 17 '26
Because batman can do what with that information?
Oh let me go find a mom.
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u/rainorshinedogs Jul 16 '26
I'm not a giant Batman V Superman fan, but whenever I hear a giant rant against this movie I'm like
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u/brockton_af Jul 16 '26
clark said it like that because he knew bruces moms name
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u/playboi3x Jul 19 '26
How does he know who Batman is?
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u/brockton_af Jul 19 '26
because hes superman, because clark kent is a investigative reporter. everyone knows who everone is when the three meet at lex's party. clark went to the fight trying to enlist aid and used the name as the weapon
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u/necrosapien87 Jul 16 '26
It obviously humanized Superman to Bruce who had seen him as a dangerous monster. However "Why did you say that name?" Could have been written differently. Batman could have yelled out with intensity "Who is Martha!?" While pushing the spear closer before Lois jumped in.
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u/Low-Salary-2128 Jul 16 '26
I understand it, it doesn't make it any less poorly written
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u/HomemadeBee1612 He's never fought us. Not us united. Jul 17 '26
The scene was written and shot perfectly. It's a deeply emotional scene that works as a logical turning point in the fight. See Black Panther: Wakanda Forever for how it totally flubbed the same scene, by not giving Shuri any reason to have a flashback and stop the fight. Martha was a trigger word that affected Batman's thinking for obvious, logical reasons. Wakanda Forever simply said, we give up, we have no idea why she would stop, so just have her do it in an unmotivated way.
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u/Low-Salary-2128 Jul 17 '26
I agree that the moment was good but I still think the way they wrote it was awful. It felt really weird for superman to call his mom Martha in that moment. He could have said it something like "save my mother" and have that lead into him saying her name.
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u/Successful_Issue_531 Jul 16 '26
I’m not a Snyder Hater by any means Affleck is my favorite Batman to date and imo most comic accurate one in terms of looks and physicality. However even tho i understand the martha scene there’s no defending that it could’ve been written more efficiently and less cringey cuz it is cringe as fuck no matter how you see it.
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u/Former-Dot1462 Jul 16 '26
Not really it's just bad execution. The character and narrative shift was way too drastic. It could've worked if seeds were planted earlier in the movie
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u/Pluto_0508 Jul 16 '26
It IS all about the name because the supposed "character climax" would not exist if either of their mothers name were anything else. This moment is where two legendary characters relationship becomes the one fans are familiar with and it hinges on a coincidence.
And when you watch it you can tell Snyder read the Wikipedia pages for superman and batman, noticed this coincidence and decided to make it a huge plot point
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u/Majestic_Panda96 Jul 16 '26
Not hard to understand. From Bruce's pov, Bruc became the killer and clark became the child he was once. He was about to snuff out a family like they did to him.
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u/Inevitable-Wheel1676 Jul 16 '26
Nice analysis. Snyder did great work, but unfortunately that means he will always have determined critics. There’s probably still people out there who will patiently explain to you how Michaelangelo was just not that good, or how Hemingway actually sucks, that Herzog is a hack director, etc.
Badasses have enemies. So do assholes.
It’s almost like they find each other and get to quarreling.
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u/DMast2217 Jul 16 '26
It was just a bad scene man. There were so many memes making fun of that scene when it came out in theaters. People were joking about the same thing happening Civil War since they both came out the same year. BvS is beautiful but the story is just awful man.
I always thought it would've been more interesting to see Clark stop Bruce from killing a henchman since he had been killing throughout the movie.
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u/EmperorDeathBunny Jul 16 '26
Nah I understood it 100% fine. I just didnt like it. Im sure it sounded amazing conceptually but in execution it didnt work.
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u/Drummerboy0214 Jul 16 '26
I agree with you OP. The scene always worked for me and I don’t get the hate. And Im usually sensitive to stuff like this.
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u/Creative_Jicama_6875 Jul 16 '26
Oh no, everyone understands the scene, there is no hidden meaning, it's just that this scene isn't executed well. Superman screaming Martha who just so happens to be the same name as Batman's mom. And because it didn't work well enough on it's own, Snyder had to give Bruce nightmares about his mom
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u/IB_ Jul 16 '26
Once again, Snyder didn't write the screenplay for BvS.
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u/silliputti0907 Jul 17 '26
It's his movie lol. I don't understand this argument. He approved it, and followed through with it.
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u/IB_ Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
So you don't understand how films are made within the studio system which is bound by the rules of various guilds and unions?
At least you admit it.
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u/silliputti0907 Jul 17 '26
No im saying that you are coping. When we are talking about movies, it’s stupid to say that was the screen writers fault, not the director or producer. They are all part of the end product, it doesn’t matter.
Its like saying Battfleck is the best batman, its not his fault he was written poorly. What else are you supposed to based it off?
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u/IB_ Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
"I'm coping"? Don't be so childish.
You, and many others, seem to be under the impression that a director has absolute autocratic rule over every aspect of a film production. This is a false assumption, particularly in the case of union productions.
A director is bound by the rules of the guilds and unions, and may not make arbitrary changes to a script written by a WGA (writers guild of America) member without their consent and approval.
So when people complain about the plot, dialogue or character motivations and say something like "Snyder doesn't understand comics or superheroes" then they are blaming the wrong person.
If everyone involved is part of the end product, as you say, then why is it that Snyder gets 100% of the criticism? You previously said "It's his movie" but now you state that it "doesn't matter" because it's a team effort. Which is it?
I'm not suggesting that Snyder has no input, and is simply adhering to the the guidelines of the script. He's obviously heavily involved and has put his personal spin on every project he's directed. I'm just stating that there is a lot of misguided criticism when it comes to his DC films, and most of it is aimed at the narrative which is the purview of the writers (Goyer, Terrio, Nolan)
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u/SuperTuberEddie Jul 16 '26
Well how else are they going to convince other idiots to join their hate train?
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u/FinalHexReturns Jul 16 '26
What exactly is complicated about this scene? It’s literally all there on the screen. There is no hidden subtext.
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u/neatoalpacino Jul 16 '26
In reality, Superman would say “save her. Save my mom.” He doesn’t Call her Martha.
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u/BeardBearWithBeer Jul 17 '26
except if her name would actually be useful
save martha kent while having a bat-boot on a throat can turn into saave maaartha kkkghenghhg
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u/henadzij Jul 16 '26
Are you out of your mind? Bruce thinks he's an alien. When an alien tells you to save my mom. What are you going to do? Are you sure you understand?
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u/silliputti0907 Jul 17 '26
So Bruce was able to deduce his mom was human because her name is Martha? That sounds even sillier.
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u/henadzij Jul 17 '26
It's not that it sounds sillier, it's that you're just not very smart.
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u/silliputti0907 Jul 17 '26
How so? You can understand something and also not like it. Not accepting others opinions is not smart.
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u/henadzij Jul 17 '26
All your comments in this thread don't say that you didn't like it, but only that you didn't understand. From this we can conclude that you are not very smart. Just a fact
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u/__lockwood Jul 16 '26
Saying “in reality” about fictional characters and how they might act is pretty ironic isn’t it
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u/neatoalpacino Jul 17 '26
It actually isn’t, moron, because they tried to be as realistic as possible
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u/__lockwood Jul 17 '26
Well you know Clark personally, so you obviously know what he’d say in any scenario… realistically, right?
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u/Rand_alsmorc Jul 16 '26
This is exactly why the scene doesn’t work.
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u/henadzij Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
That's why you don't understood her. Who in their right mind would save an alien's mom? Are you all right?
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u/frafzan Jul 16 '26
I wish wonder woman who stop batman v superman fight and then they have to stick together to fight doomsday in the final scene
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u/Chemical_Signal2753 Jul 16 '26
The problem with the scene is that it depends on the coincidence that Batman and Superman's mom have the same name. Even if it is canonically accurate, it is an eye rolling moment. The same scene written to avoid the coincidence would have been much more well received.
If Superman said "save her" instead of "save Martha" and Batman responded "Save who?" and Superman responded "My Mom, Marth Kent." it would have played out much better with the audience.
The subtext of the scene is fine. Batman pivots on seeing Superman's humanity and how he cares about saving his mother above saving himself. The text of the scene fails because it depends on an incredibly unlikely coincidence triggering this realization.
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u/Appropriate-Toe9153 Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26
Another problem is, it’s hard for postmodern, cynical viewers to have “empath viewership”
No one in the audience could FEEL the likely cortisol spike for the characters, the drive Bruce has to kill the alien… the save Martha (on top of people ‘feeling’ this Superman was a 5th class field trip with sunshine and enthusiasm and some joy, it was somber geopolitical tome without enough daylight from some aspect of real-life and the comics)
But some people have an idea of Superman that really isn’t meant for “grounded/gritty depiction”
They see Superman as Atticus Finch plus a global police officer whom never swears, not as a normal guy without paternal guidance or access to his heritage or full use of his capabilities, like Snyder showed (most guys with their father and self knowledge can’t even imagine what MOS Clark went through. Which explains to intellectual and emotional disconnect/disregard for real-life people in poverty who are beyond fucked up who live on the margins)
Gunn did exactly the same thing (made his Superman disconnect from his heritage, knowing nothing about his father, etc) just made that Superman holly go-lightly, and soke viewers got a nostalgia high
At least Snydes tried something different, which is why the films endure.
Superman2025 had ZERO coattails which is one of the reasons Supergirl was a non-starter (glad I saw that shit on half-priced matinee, but not worth $10)— I say that to say: Superman2025 will be forgotten, whereas Man of Steel will generate the same debates it did when it was released, which gives the film a robust afterlife
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u/silliputti0907 Jul 17 '26
I'm not a hater of either. I think people are unfairly criticizing Gunn without letting him set the ground.
Snyder's MOS was an origin story so it was more deeper and focused on the character. Gunn's Superman was a dc world, where Superman just happens to be the lead character. MOS is the more intricate story and cinema, but Superman was a feel good movie. It depends on what you prefer.
It's too early to say how it's going to work, but based on what he did with Marvel Gunn excelled with worldbuilding and making side characters shine.
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u/Character_Drop_4446 Jul 16 '26
On top of this, it's a total 180 in belief that doesn't feel like it aligns with the version of Bruce we're presented. And maybe it's just been too long since I've seen the movie, but I can't recall any moments that pushed his character toward this revelation that Clark is actually just a person with a family too. On top of that is the fact that there's no way the people he brutalizes never said "w-w-wait batman, I have a family!" and from everything the movie has shown us about how he fights crime, that wouldn't matter to him. But Superman saying it is special?
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u/henadzij Jul 16 '26
This proves once again that you are simply unable to understand such a simple scene.
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u/Character_Drop_4446 Jul 16 '26
"once again" like this ain't my first time on the sub lol. If I'm wrong, how about actually explaining why? Are you trying to tell me this batman doesn't brutalize and kill random thugs regardless of context?
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u/henadzij Jul 16 '26
The family has nothing to do with it at all. For Bruce, it's a trigger.A t the beginning of the film, we were shown the moment of the murder of Bruce's parents. When a murderer stands in front of his victim, and the name of his wife comes out of the victim's mouth. And now Bruce is standing in the same position, preparing to kill the one who whispers that name. The name worked as a trigger. At that moment, he realizes that he is turning into a monster ready to kill. This scene is a mirror. Family-the coincidence of names-has nothing to do with it at all. The death of his parents is the trauma that turned Bruce into Batman. And now we see that he is on his way to a new transformation-turning into a monster. And one step for her is killing the victim.
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u/Character_Drop_4446 Jul 16 '26
It's too bad reasoning like that still circles back to being communicated awkwardly at best. And it shows a level of hypocrisy for Batman throughout the movie (again, circling back to him killing thugs with families) that he'd become completely blind to? Maybe if there was any meaningful foreshadowing of this change in mindset (or if it wasn't his introductory film so it could establish why he's now a murderer) and if it wasn't delivered so strangely I'd be less hard on this, but as is this is- at best- the clumsiest depiction of batman in film. Batman Forever understood and communicated Bruce's character arc better, and that movie is a total mess
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u/henadzij Jul 16 '26
It's just your opinion. I've already told you that it's not about the family. but you keep writing it.It's okay that you are. You could be wrong
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u/Character_Drop_4446 Jul 16 '26
It's not about which family? Bc in your own words, it's about Bruce realizing he's becoming (already there imo considering he, again, murders ppl) a monster like the ones who killed his family. So... It's about triggering the trauma of his family being victimized, no? Anyway what exactly it's about is honestly the least of my concern with that scene. We seem to agree that the point is him suddenly realizing the error of his ways, which gets to my real problem w the scene: that internal conflict for Bruce is almost, if not completely, non-existent w/in the rest of the movie. No hesitation in his brutality, no moments of reflection on the path he's on, and barely, if any, justification for why a character with extremely strong morals is acting like an anti-hero
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u/HomemadeBee1612 He's never fought us. Not us united. Jul 17 '26
You don't seem to have actually watched BvS. Batman doesn't murder anyone. No one. Do you know what the definition of murder is? Hint, if someone's shooting at you, it is NOT murder when you shoot back.
The whole point of the movie was Batman was not "being himself" and started the bat-branding, in his frustration over crime in Gotham getting worse and even taking Robin from him. Then, at the end, he gives up the branding. This is what we call character development.
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u/Character_Drop_4446 Jul 17 '26
Oh sorry, batman killed ppl in self defense. The guy known for unshakable morals against killing is ok to kill ppl if it's self defense 🙄
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u/MeepSneepers Jul 16 '26
Nobody doesn't get it. It's obvious. There is nothing about these movies that is above anyone's heads. It's just not very good. You seem to be the one that doesn't really get that.
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u/Suspicious-Store495 Jul 16 '26
Literally no one misunderstood the scene. It's meant to show Bruce the humanity of superman using a coincidental connection to his dead mother. It was just the dumbest thing you could possibly do.
First, it was somewhat disingenuous that the world greatest detective would be so easily tricked, but I was willing to go along with it.
Second, the issues with this movie go far beyond this scene, it's just the one that took many of us out of the moment as one of the most obvious plot devices ever. Like, How would things have been different if their mom's names weren't the same? Boy we sure are lucky that they are. Any time you use as a plot device something like "boy we sure are lucky that...incredibly unlikely thing...happened exactly that way" it feels forced and contrived. To be sure movies do this all the time and you could still use the whole "you're just trying to save your mom and I'd do anything to go back and save my parents" thing without it feeling so lame.
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u/Huntersmoon24 Jul 16 '26
My favorite scene in the movie. Yeah, some call it campy or cheesy or cringy but I don't give a shit.
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u/F0r3v3rF4lc0n Jul 16 '26
Batman: “WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?!”
Also Batman: Stands harder on Superman’s throat.
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u/CapCalrissian Jul 16 '26
So Batman, THE WORLD'S GREATEST DETECTIVE, who was investigating Lex Luthor in order to acquire kryptonite, and discovered information on other metahumans, never came across the fact that this alien he's hunting might have an adoptive family here on earth? Remember that Lex, who has the same motives and similar IQ, in this same movie, figures out Clark's secret identity and abducts Martha, which is the catalyst for this moronic scene in the first place. Don't give me some bs like "oh he was too dead set on killing Clark to think about whether he has a family", Bruce does everything he can to create this elaborate set up to lure out and kill Superman, but he didn't look into the background of him at all. Riiiiiiight.
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u/ODST_A92 Jul 16 '26
He was manipulated by Lex. The checks being sent back, invited to his party to put Clark and Bruce together, and keep in mind Superman appeared only 18 months before BVS. Bruce probably thought Superman just arrived and brought Zod to earth not that he lived with us for 33 years. Only General Swanwick and those in the interrogation room knew this.
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u/Amoral_matchstick Jul 16 '26
If this were the case then they could have changed the line to “save her, save my mother,” which would have made more sense and been (slightly) less clunky. It’s a poorly written, overwrought scene that feels entirely forced to give resolution to their conflict.
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u/HomemadeBee1612 He's never fought us. Not us united. Jul 16 '26
Wrong. In real life, when you call the cops to report a missing person, you don't tell them "find my mother." You tell them the name of the missing person. If you were in a car wreck while racing to rescue your mom who had been kidnapped, the cops show up as you are about to die, you are not carrying identification, and you have one breath to let out, you don't say "my mother has been kidnapped at such and such address," you say, "Mary Johnson has been kidnapped at such and such address." That statement has the more important and vital information. That lets the cops go there and ask the woman her name to confirm her identity. And if facial recognition or tracking is available, they need her name to look up who she is and start making matches against surveillance camera footage.
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u/henadzij Jul 16 '26
What to expect from them is that they literally want Bruce to run to save the alien's mom. It doesn't bother them at all.
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u/Ithnag Jul 16 '26
No, in distress people usually use "my mom" and not the name. The name comes after that. You can see it in 911 calls and initial missing person reports.
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u/King-Red-Beard Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26
This. It's the wording. Why even play up the Martha coincidence? As if Superman would call his mom Martha, especially given the context. It's not the atrocity some like to argue, but definitely a little clunky.
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u/Trunddlefist Jul 16 '26
I am curious, did anyone know Clark was Superman other then Stanwick or Lois yet? Even in this moment is Superman risking those closest to him by revealing his identity? The identity his father died to protect?
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u/TheRealone4444 Your love makes me strong, your hate makes me unstoppable Jul 16 '26
Because their insane amount of ignorance, stupidity and hate blinds them
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u/Amoral_matchstick Jul 16 '26
It’s a movie, not a political position, no one is devoting the level of emotional energy to this that you suggest they are.
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Jul 16 '26
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u/TheDovahkiinsDad Jul 16 '26
I absolutely love this movie and I admit I didn't really get it at first. It was weird and I was like wut?
I think if he showed it like a quick flashback like Batmans memory of his mother being killed and the screaming of Martha it could have driven that home better for the audience.
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u/mainman_5985 Jul 16 '26
They literally show a flashback to Thomas Wayne dying and saying Martha's name lol.
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u/TheDovahkiinsDad Jul 16 '26
Yes they did. I was saying it needed to be quickly flashed or show in the moment. That scene was wild but I didn't make to connection, and I assume many others didn't either. But I'm not a hater like some of the masses, I was just confused and moved along lol
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u/MuddFishh Jul 16 '26
Had a big effect on me in the imax cinema having the penny drop that both their mother's names were Martha. That was something I had never put together, and I was a huge Batman fan, by proxy i was familiar with DC. I'd just always thought of her as Ma Kent.
I appreciated it because I had a similar reaction to Bruce in real time. I didn't think "why did he say that name?" but i did instantly go "oh shiiiit, they both love their mothers, that's something they have in common, maybe they aren't so alien/different after all." The name was just a trigger. To me, it was perfect, but I can see how you could nitpick it apart if you wanted to find a reason to hate it.
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u/Curious_Pontiff Jul 17 '26
Thank you…came here to say the same. Saw this on opening night, and just remember thinking how did I never notice both having a mom named Martha? I thought it was great
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u/BatmanVAR Jul 16 '26
I love most of the SnyderVerse. It’s my favorite Batman on screen to date.
I think this is a terrible and meme worthy scene.
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u/TheRedditEric Jul 16 '26
You act like the scene wouldve played out the same if he'd said any other name lol
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u/Left-Distribution751 Jul 16 '26
It would’ve, if it were any other North American name, because Lois would have still came in and said it’s his mother’s name. That’s what made him actually stop.
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u/TheRedditEric Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26
"save juanita!" "Nah" stabs
Edit: in that case,would he still have a flashback to his mother dying?
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u/Left-Distribution751 Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26
Since when is Juanita a North American name lmao
Edit: likely no flashback to his mother dying. But hesitancy after Lois saying they have to save his mother I think would be the most profound effect of the situation as a whole regardless of the name. Maybe that’s what would trigger the flash back instead of just hearing his mother’s name randomly .
But then are you saying that the fact remembering how his mother died because someone said his mom’s name has no weight on the situation? Or does it have weight? Make up your minds
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u/TheRedditEric Jul 16 '26
Oh so it wouldn't play out the same. Thanks.
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u/Left-Distribution751 Jul 16 '26
Well not the exact same obviously not, end result would likely be the same in him having a change of heart yes.
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u/helpprogram2 Jul 16 '26
I don’t hate Snyder I don’t even know him. But I hate how weird his fans are… bro they movies where fine. You don’t need to joint a cult about em
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u/FDVP Jul 16 '26
Nobody talks about how Clark knows. I took this as a weak but serviceable attempt to show that Clark is a very good investigative reporter and he dug into the Gotham Bat enough to figure out the “Martha button” if he needed it. Which he did. Applied psychology to hit the Bat right in his feels.
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u/Dry-Post723 Jul 16 '26
his own mom is called Martha, he was trying to say "save my mom" but keeping his own identity secret as Clark Kent
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u/Laugh__Tr4ck Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26
I think they, myself included, understand that. It’s just poorly done. Especially when Bruce’s trauma is what holds him back from killing, so after that is broken, it is laughable that he could be stopped simply by understanding that Clark is that same little boy he used to be. It’s also the only time Bruce is confronted with that fact. Nothing before or after this scene has Bruce reconciling with it. This scene as a concept is a masterpiece and I WOULD have loved it if done differently.
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u/VelveetaBuzzsaw Jul 16 '26
Same, I don't understand how anyone misinterpreted that so badly. It's so glaringly obvious that reaction was " wait . . . You have a mother?? Holy shit !! I almost killed a human being !?! I was half a moment away from braking my one rule 😳"
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u/Odd_Jelly3863 Jul 16 '26
Bros broken his 1 rule many times in the movie up until this point but yeah that makes more sense than people focusing on the name😭
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u/VelveetaBuzzsaw Jul 16 '26
Yeah, he does play as fast and loose with his rule as Janeway does with the prime directive, lol. But I think that reaction only makes sense if he hasn't in the snyderverse.
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Jul 16 '26
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u/XblastBR Jul 16 '26
Why would he say save my mother when he's about to die and Batman doesn't know who he is yet, also he's an ALIEN with an alien mother. Save Martha would make it a lot of easier to connect the dots.
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u/Status_War_3248 Jul 16 '26
And then Batman would've asked who is your mother?
Superman answers "Martha".
Either Batman will ask "Why did you say that name?" or just kill him because may be he can somehow read his mind, whch makes him much more dangerous.
I don't get how it was "poorly executed".0
Jul 16 '26
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u/Status_War_3248 Jul 16 '26
At that exact moment, Batman wasn't considering him as a human being but a murderous monster.
Why would he listen to a monster who beg? That might be a ruse.
But let's suppose he does listen.
He could've said "Save my mother". Batman doesn't know who his mother is.
Why wouldn't Batman ask for his mother's name?
And saying "Luthor will kill my mother if we don't fight" wouldn't automatically make Batman stop because, again, it could be a ruse from that murderous alien.
Truth is, even the name Martha didn't stop him. It just surprised him.
If Lois wasn't there or a little bit late, he woud've killed Superman anyway.-2
u/rocky2814 Jul 16 '26
so instead the worlds greatest detective is suckered by a monster who blurted out his mothers name. brilliant
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u/Status_War_3248 Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26
What if I told you being the world’s greatest detective doesn't make you a soothsayer?
Imagine Superman saying "Save my mother, Luthor will kill her if we don't fight".
Then Batman be just like "Oh, f*ck, this dude's mother is in danger, I should save her because all of this is a set up made by Luthor."That's actually very stupid.
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u/DoctorBeatMaker Jul 16 '26
I don’t know why people think the “save my mother” dialogue would help the scene. Batman literally just got done talking down about Superman’s parents (“I bet your parents taught you that you mean something. That you’re here for a reason. My parents taught me a different lesson. Dying in the gutter for no reason at all.”). If Superman said “save my mother”, what would make him or anyone else think Batman would even care?
Superman said “ save Martha” specifically because it disconnects him from her. He named a woman that was in trouble. Superman’s last words as he thought he was about to die were for Batman to save a woman. The name disorients Batman because he has PTSD since it was the last words his father spoke. But if it had not been for Lois coming in, Batman still would have likely killed Superman. Lois connecting the pieces together by saying Martha is Superman’s mother’s name for Bruce is what broke him out of his rage.
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u/Sturm_Brightblade375 Jul 16 '26
First off, it was horribly awkwardly done, especially in the theatrical cut. If you watch the extended (intended) cut, you can see that Clark knows who Batman is, knows that it is Bruce, and has researched who Bruce is.
Second, know the character of Superman/Clark. He's always been about second chances, redeming people not just Vengence. Even in Man of Steel, he was trying to redeem Zod until the very end when it was clear there was no other choice.
The use of "Martha" was Clark's last chance to redeem Bruce and save him from becoming a villian like all those he had fought against for 20 years before BvS.
Now, let me reiterate, it was horribly awkward, and the theatrical cut made that murky at best if you aren't a massive DC/Superman fan coming into it. Also, this is my personal fan theory, my opinion. Just my head cannon.
Regardless, I greatly enjoyed all 3, and Wonder Woman, and both Shazams. Flash and WW84 were Meh at best. Black Adam was slightly above Mid.
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u/pathrounrl Jul 16 '26
At first, it might have been better for him to say, "Save my mom" and then "Save Martha" but it was better for him to use Martha’s name directly to get Batman to stop it helped Bruce Wayne recall his old memories.
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u/sparduck117 Jul 16 '26
Misunderstood? Buddy I’ve never called my mother by her first name, why would a dying man do that? I get what they were going for but it’s another example of why BvS needed another draft.
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u/x_Trassic_x Jul 16 '26
Idk, maybe someone who thought they were dying and knew the only one who could save her is the man killing him. Batman didn't know who his mom was
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u/Aggressive_Tax_7853 6d ago
That whole fight scene was stupid. Superman could’ve just held batman down & explained everything. He didn’t even need to fight him. He could’ve easily asked him to help save his mom. Snyder just wanted that TDKR fight scene lmao