How to counsel a brother’s out of wedlock pregnancy

[u/Mundane-Extension981]

A young Christian brother in his early 30’s (although I’m not entirely sure he’s born again - has the head knowledge but very little fruit), had been living with his girlfriend which I told him 6 months ago to either marry her quickly or move out. Didn’t heed the advice and now she’s pregnant. Of course they broke up right before they found out. She was threatening to call cops, berated him for not making enough money, threatened to cheat on him so he would take the break up seriously…

So now he’s living with me temporarily. A leader in the church is pushing him towards reconciliation with her and to make things right and move towards marriage; talks to him as if they were married, so the baby can be in a good home and not be living in a broken home. Well, she’s already twice divorced with four kids, two kids from each marriage. New in her faith too. We all go the same church.

I’m basically telling him to take this door and find the Lord and grow in the Lord but the respected leader seems to just hope for them to work out, like this kid is somehow a project for this leader to say see, it all worked out, when this leader never called it out and I had to.

I’m a little upset or perhaps, quite significantly perturbed. No one in leadership has called out the sin. They still sign up as door greeters as a “family”, and he serves on the Awana team still.

I don’t get it. Dudes definitely charismatic and handsome. Perhaps leadership is biased towards those things plus he’s shown very little remorse and almost has treated it like a little white lie type of sin so others just ride along with that… You know, like narcissistic or psycho types who just act nonchalantly with their sinful nature and smooth it over with their charm and lack of contrition.

I don’t get it and its really bugging me. Now she wants him back and he’s basically checked out but oddly still communicating with her regularly and making plans as well as joining the church’s upcoming “marriage class”, where 60 others have already signed up.

How to counsel? Should I go directly to my pastor? 10 year old church plant, non denominational church under no actual larger church panting network/denomination.

I have access to my pastor but the church has exploded over the last few years and has gone to three services…

I’m just really bugged out about this. I’ve counseled him about as much as I could and while he’s here I’m going to be more intentional about prayer and Bible studying with him.

My reformed biblical beliefs cry out for him to run. For him to know and love and abide with the Lord and the scripture and lead her well during this time by being the example. But I can hear whispers of plans for this and that with them and I fear he’s just gonna go along for the ride and end up in misery, regrets, and many sufferings…

Thoughts? Prayers? Thanks yall!

[u/Classic_Breadfruit18]

I am not in the camp that one mistake requires another. Marriage is a serious lifelong covenant and not to be entered lightly, especially with someone who has twice divorced. If she is a Christian, is she even eligible for biblical remarriage? If she isn't, there is no obligation to marry. She has four soon to be five kids with two soon to be three dads so this is extremely complicated situation and that family is going to be chaotic no matter what.

They sinned. Repentance and turning to God is in order. Because they made a baby in their sin, the baby needs to be loved and supported in every way including 18 years of child support. If he is a Christian I would encourage him to seek custody (however much he can get) so the child can grow up with his dad and be taught about Jesus. That is his only obligation in my opinion. As for counsel, you should only be counseling him to seek Christ. Take time with huge decisions. Maybe marriage is right and maybe it isn't but having a bunch of people inserting their moral browbeating isn't going to help him make a wise choice.

[u/Mundane-Extension981 → u/Classic_Breadfruit18]

Love it! I sit with you. My plea is for him to seek the Lord first and second for Gods confirmation. But i don’t think the two go together well until he sits down and really seeks and knows the Lord and is known by the Lord. That’s my stance. There’s no need to rush yet everyone seems to be telling them to rush towards marriage now. Modern marriage is good for that, brush things under the rug and/or hope that their union can somehow become godly and Christ honoring and Christ shining. My experience, it never does that well when sin was the foundation of the relationship. Thank you for the insight.

[u/_Broly777_]

I wish I had a more positive answer for you but what I've learned over time with friends who profess the faith but have very little to show for it in terms of how they live their life & conduct themselves is you can say and do all the right things, and it can still not penetrate their hearts to move them to correct action. You can push them in the right direction but you cannot force them to have convictions or contrition. Continue to pray for him, give him advice in whatever way you can, encourage him to seek God more or invite him to a better church that isn't non-denom, but at the end of the day he's going to do what he wants to do and that may involve seeing someone you care about making bad decisions. The silver lining is if he truly belongs to God then he will be restored eventually.

[u/cybersaint2k]

I'm the parent of children a little younger than he is. Parenting adult children is challenging. In our way of doing it, we let them come to us and ask for help and counsel.

Period.

Wow, that's hard, not just sometimes, but all the time.

We try to not force anything. Just recently, we sent something unsolicited to one of our adult children and that was very rare, and they did not respond.

Now, here on r/Reformed, all bets are off! So buckled up! 😄

I say all that because:

In what you have written, you are far more aggressive in managing, counseling, trying to guide, his life than any healthy parent would. You are all up in his business. And now once again, he's not doing things the way you want, and now you have an additional problem that the pastor isn't agreeing with your way of thinking.

My reformed biblical beliefs cry out for him to run. 

Your Reformed beliefs should be saying "Unless it's literally sinful counsel, I should partner with my pastor, support his position, and have unified front in encouraging my brother towards something good--marriage."

A lot of guys don't grow up until they screw up.

Let him own this, take responsibility, and let's not let our Reformed beliefs make him choose between honoring family and honoring his pastor.

[u/Mundane-Extension981 → u/cybersaint2k]

Fair. But I didn’t say the pastor had a position one way or another. I said church leader. Of course young guys mess up. I’ve done it all. In trying to save him from a lifelong road of pain and regret. That’s all. There’s gonna be two camps here for sure.

I’m thinking about reaching out to my pastor but at this point I’m sure he knows. Grace is definitely good to implement often but at what cost? What level of sin is the cutoff line?

[u/cybersaint2k → u/Mundane-Extension981]

There’s gonna be two camps here for sure.

There doesn't have to be.

What level of sin is the cutoff line?

Maybe I'm not following you. I am not trying to be rough with you at all; please correct me if I'm missing the facts. You know so much more than we do.

Him preparing for marriage to a woman he impregnated, a woman who has reconnected with him, is not sin.

And you are probably right; neither one of them sound like Christians. Which means they aren't unequally yoked.

Which means moving forward into responsibility, adulthood, marriage, is proper.

[u/Mundane-Extension981 → u/cybersaint2k]

I’m a proponent of marriage for sure. Thank you so much for the feedback and your position. It helps for sure.

[u/semper-gourmanda]

You're concerned about the right thing. This is one of the points Jesus is making in Luke 12 - "why don't you judge among yourselves what's right." There are a lot of moving parts here and several people need to weigh in over the long term on this one.

[u/mrdtng]

I've found this book really useful in providing counsel: Saints sufferers and sinners by Michael Emlet. https://amzn.asia/d/0iQn05MP

I highly recommend reading it. It'll help you in your considerations.

My thoughts: 1. It is good and right for him to continue being and serving (in an appropriate capacity) in church community. That should be encouraged. 2. Sin is sin, whether it's a white lie or pre-marital sex. It needs to be addressed with great care and concern... If not by leadership, then by yourself. 3. Marriage isn't always the best thing and marriage isn't a silver bullet that solves issues. There are things he can do to take responsibility for his sin, and marriage might not be one of those things. 4. Just like how we relate to any other brother or sister in church, we encourage them to walk close with the Lord and flee from sin. We walk alongside them. Your efforts to pray and bible study with him is great. Your hospitality and love in accommodating him is fantastic. Doing something is very often better than doing nothing. You're doing well.

I understand the feeling that you want him to do better and get to a better place. But no one gets there in a hurry and in our walk with Christ, everyone starts somewhere. We all stumble along the way. Remember that it is God who changes us and it is done in His time. We are privileged when God uses us in his way to shape others and privileged when God uses others to shape us. But we do not coerce or control others, just be mindful of that.

Chin up and keep going!

[u/New-Reputation681]

You've stated that you're upset, bothered, perturbed, and bugged out. Just keep in mind that the situation isn't about you.

[u/PrettyNeighborhood33]

Do you love your leaders?

I would imagine you wouldn’t hesitate and quench the Holy Spirit that lives within you. Yes you absolutely go to them. The Word says in Acts 10:34 that God is no respecter of persons.

This is the problem with leadership. People begin to make them Lord. This is dangerous My Friend. Go to them as you go to the Brother.

Ezekiel 2:15 is clear as well.

Pray on it. Then go be on mission for the Lord. It’s incredible to see how He is a loving, living God. He’s sent this to you. GO!