r/Purdue • u/Superdude717 Boilermaker • Dec 03 '25
Newsđ° Purdue effectively bans grad students from China, other countries, faculty say
https://www.jconline.com/story/news/local/purdue/2025/12/03/purdue-grad-students-from-5-countries-unlikely-to-be-admitted-china-russia-iran-cuba-north-korea/87583768007/?gnt-cfr=1&gca-cat=p&gca-uir=true&gca-epti=z117655p002050c002050d00----v117655b0045xxd004565&gca-ft=128&gca-ds=sophi254
u/Its-Mike-Jones Dec 03 '25
An interesting take from a president who was once a grad student from China
Go Mungus Go
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u/AlexSandman8964 Dec 03 '25
Fun fact is Hong Kong people use different passports than mainland China
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u/Noraus_alt CompE 2024++ Dec 04 '25
And our president was born in Tianjin, 1977, then moved to HK in 1988 :)
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u/coriscause Dec 03 '25
My understanding is Hong Kong and Macau are treated as part of China with respect to this policy
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u/Which-Stuff-8298 Dec 08 '25
I mean when your base salary is over 500 thousand dollars a year ain't gonna kiss ass over integrity?
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u/Puzzleheaded_Log_196 Dec 03 '25
Besides the obvious problems of not admitting students from specific countries, the quality of the grad programs/research will definitely decline with this move. Chinese students are some of the hardest working and most productive researchers in my program, and I canât imagine what my lab would have been like without the two that joined the same year as me
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Dec 03 '25
Even though I only did undergrad research, I second this based on what I saw from the grad students from my time in the lab for my program.
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u/Purphect Dec 03 '25
Do you know the rationale behind it? I would think overall shared education amongst the world would be a net positive.
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Dec 05 '25
They're just hellbent on destroying education top to bottom in this country, for obvious reasons.
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u/Purphect Dec 05 '25
I think people are so worried about governments, agendas, and cultures that they forget most people (regardless of nation) are similar. Education only helps unite and inform us as people of the planet.
Maybe a little too philosophical in a sense but I truly believe more education will do good overall.
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Dec 05 '25
I have to agree with all of that. It's one of the reasons why I personally wanted to go into education policy. I thought it was one of the things that cut through those partisan lines. But with what has happened to the education department just this year, it's just not true anymore. The people in power have admitted multiple times that they want to destroy public education. The truth is, they're almost done.
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u/Purphect Dec 05 '25
Yeah itâs incredibly disheartening thatâs for sure. Iâm hoping it makes a resurgence in the correct direction in the next cycle. Hopefully itâs not irreversible damage to our education.
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Dec 05 '25
I hope it does too. But it's looking incredibly bleak right now. If you got time, the hechinger report did an article a few days ago going over the extent of the ed department cuts and what remains.
https://hechingerreport.org/proof-points-trump-upended-education/
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u/AkitoApocalypse CMPE '22 Dec 03 '25
That's true but there have also been concerns about espionage - ex: the fiasco awhile back about Chinese internationals spying on other Chinese internationals making sure they "stay in line"
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u/Puzzleheaded_Log_196 Dec 03 '25
Iâm not sure how much that really matters to be honest. Academia is supposed to be where ideas are freely shared, even between countries. Obviously thatâs a very idealized way of looking at it, and not always reflective of how research is conducted. You had to be a domestic student to be funded by DoD money in our lab, so if itâs just for advancing science and not specifically for defense the worst that can happen is someone gets their project scooped?
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u/draker585 Marketing '29 Dec 03 '25
The concern's that it goes way deeper, like whole networks that get "students" into the workforce of major defense contractors specifically to spill classified documents and intel. Whether or not you believe it is one thing, but I have to imagine this directive came from the government, not from Purdue itself.
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u/mathdhruv MS (AAE) 2018 Dec 04 '25
like whole networks that get "students" into the workforce of major defense contractors specifically to spill classified documents and intel
ITAR already exists. Most international students can't even dream of jobs with defense contractors, and this isn't new.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Log_196 Dec 03 '25
Idk man, Iâve always viewed that as thinly veiled racism. Itâs just seeing the boogeyman wherever you look, specifically not white people
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u/liquidpele Dec 04 '25
> Chinese students are some of the hardest working and most productive researchers in my program, and I canât imagine what my lab would have been like without the two that joined the same year as me
Great, so chinese people aren't comically evil so fuck all the Americans that wanted to be admitted into those programs.
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u/AdRemarkable3043 Dec 05 '25
The problem is that not many Americans are willing to pursue a PhD.
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u/liquidpele Dec 05 '25
And why do you think that is? Â Socratic method time lol.Â
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u/AdRemarkable3043 Dec 05 '25
A doctorate usually takes more than five years, the monthly stipend is about 2-3k dollars, the daily workload is very heavy, and the salary after graduation is not always high unless you are in a very popular field such as computer science. From a financial perspective it is not cost effective.
Why are many people from China still willing to pursue it? Because for many of them it is the only way to come to the United States to work without paying a large amount of money.
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u/TobyS2 Dec 03 '25
Dumb move. I see Iran is also on the list. For some there, grad school is their ticket out. I know of a family of 3 siblings that all went to Purdue. Liked Purdue, liked the US, and stayed. All are highly intelligent and have great jobs that contribute to our society and country. A loss for Iran and a gain for US, but the current political climate can't seem to see the bigger picture.
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u/COMCredit ME 2021 Dec 03 '25
It's a loss for the US as well; those educated and valuable Iranians will instead study, research, and pay taxes in Europe or Asia instead.
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u/Zulu-Lima Dec 03 '25
In business decisions are made based on statistics unfortunately. Obviously there are good people from every country. I'm sure a lot stay. But I would venture to say the statistics show the majority leave the US. Not sure exactly what is gained by not allowing them to enroll but if it means more financial aid or resources and chances for students in the US I think that's worth while. Never understand why we would rather help international students before we helped domestic students. I guess that can go towards a lot of things
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u/vanishing_grad Dec 04 '25
Grad students contribute to American teaching and research. For most high demand stem fields, there are literally not enough talented American students who are willing to work for like $20,000 a year when they can go into tech and start at 200k lol
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u/depressedsoothsayer Dec 08 '25
You seem unaware that in order to get the F-1 or J-1 visas that allow them to come here in the first place, international students literally have to prove that they do not intend to stay in the US.
https://www.bu.edu/isso/travel-visas/apply-for-a-visa/initial-visa-application/intent/Â
 In order to qualify for an F-1 or J-1 visa, you must prove that your visit to the U.S. will be temporary in nature and that you will return to your country after completion of your activities here. Consular officers call this ânonimmigrant intent.â
Obviously a huge share to stay anyways, but itâs certainly not like our government encourages them to do so with open arms.
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u/Zulu-Lima Dec 04 '25
Completely agree with you. The only thing I was noting is that the decision is probably based on the statistics of the amount of aid given to the percentage of international students who choose to stay in the US vs return to their country. In terms of the US it's not a great financial decision to pay for students to come here then for them to leave. Would be much better if they required them to stay and work in the US. Similar to contracts you would have at companies if they paid for your schooling, they normally require you to stay with them for x amount of years.
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u/vanishing_grad Dec 04 '25
phd students coming here and teaching/researching for 5 years while making minimum wage is already a net benefit.
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u/Zulu-Lima Dec 04 '25
I don't know the numbers but if on paper it comes to a benefit then I'm with you. I would love to see how they came up with their decision, I would imagine it's quite complex, I'm sure they're including the opportunity cost of having domestic students who would also be doing minimum wage. Idk it's an interesting decision, hopefully it works. I'm sure we will all find out otherwise
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u/AdRemarkable3043 Dec 05 '25
90% Chinese PhD graduates stay in the United States for work. In fact, the current job market is increasingly unfavorable toward international PhDs because many companies are unwilling to sponsor h1b.
You might think that the United States wants them to stay and that they prefer to return home, but that is not the case. In reality, the United States does not welcome them in the job market.
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u/runningkraken Dec 04 '25
Higher education isn't a business, no matter what Purdue presidents of the current and recent past believe.
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u/Zulu-Lima Dec 04 '25
Hmmmmm idk about that one. That's like saying hospitals aren't businesses.
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u/runningkraken Dec 04 '25
Hospitals are treated like businesses because capitalism has to commodify everything and people like you allow it.
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u/Zulu-Lima Dec 04 '25
People like me...geez. just because I have a business background doesn't make me the bad guy. Just explaining things aren't always as they might seem. That's the world we live in. You either conform or are left to suffer. Hospitals are like businesses because you have to make money to be able to treat people, people need paid supplies need bought. If they weren't a business there would be no hospitals. Same thing with universities, buildings need heated and cooled, professors need paid... they're businesses.
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u/runningkraken Dec 04 '25
Wrong
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u/Zulu-Lima Dec 04 '25
Well now you're just blatantly refusing the facts
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u/runningkraken Dec 04 '25
What facts? There are plenty of countries that manage to not commodify hospitals, healthcare, and education.
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u/Zulu-Lima Dec 04 '25
Why would I be talking about other countries. This pertains to the US
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u/otterpusrexII Dec 04 '25
I live with some Persian grad and PhD students There is a current ban on leaving Iran for grad schools. One of my housemates said 47/51 students in her cohort at the top university in Iran have left for the US, UK, and Europe and plan not to return.
She says the Iranian government asked trump for the travel ban so theyâd stop losing top students.
Kinda makes sense.
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u/coffee_sddl Dec 03 '25
Disappointing, but extremely unsurprising given Purdueâs research profile and department offerings.
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Dec 03 '25
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Dec 03 '25
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/tennismenace3 Dec 03 '25
Wouldn't that be DEI, which is bad?
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u/Zestyclose-Pen-1699 Dec 03 '25
So dont bring in the best students in the world to propel research and innovation, but give opportunity to lesser candidates based on thier country of origin? If Indiana and America at large cannot produce the very best candidates, why punish the smart people who do? It's like reverse dei lol.
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u/lunchbox12682 ECE 2004 Dec 03 '25
I mean, yes. That's why there are state schools to an extent. To provide opportunities for those in the state. Having non-residents in programs is a good thing, but why should a state school exist if not available to state residents? This isn't just a Purdue thing.
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u/Noraus_alt CompE 2024++ Dec 03 '25
Do you realize how much easier state schools like Purdue and Georgia Tech is for in-state students to get in compared to intl students?
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u/Zestyclose-Pen-1699 Dec 03 '25
Purdue is a major research school. One of the best in the world. It requires world class graduate students to remain amongst the best. It is available to indiana students. We need better indiana students to compete with the rest of the world. Purdue is a state school, but its not the same as ivy tech.
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u/fleshnbloodhuman Dec 03 '25
They werenât bringing in the best students. They were bringing in the most âappropriate at the timeâ students.
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u/Bovoduch Dec 03 '25
Glad the professors are going public about this lol. Potential applicants shouldn't waste their money applying to schools in Indiana that are dead set on self-destructing to suck up to Braun and Trump
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u/Prodan1111 Dec 03 '25
This is a loss to the US. The powers in charge make them out to be villains. But in reality, they are some of the brightest minds. And hardest working. Most end up staying here anyway, benefitting us even more. Especially in the sciences. I just had shoulder replacement recently, and of the 13 people in the room 12 were of Asian descent. Rusty from Goshen didn't pass the boards.
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u/abeagler Dec 05 '25
Feels like fraud for university to accept application fees from students it has no intention of admitting
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u/teal_seam_6 Dec 04 '25
If the admins think this is such a great idea, post it on website, better yet post it on the most obvious location on Purdue's frontpage, let them know who is the king and did this first!
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u/AlexSandman8964 Dec 03 '25
My wife just got admitted for Jan 26, she's Chinese, is this a joke?
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u/Wise_Border_669 Dec 03 '25
1) Which department she is in?
2) Did she have green card? Is her citizenship is Chinese? How long has she been in US?
3) Jan 26? So that's Spring 2026?
4) When exactly she received the offer? "Just"?Not trying to gossip, but this is valid data point. I have a friend who worked at Purdue for a year but still cannot get the admission.
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u/AlexSandman8964 Dec 03 '25
I don't want to go very detailed on her info, I can tell is: 1. Engineering, 2. No green card, she's a Chinese citizen, she's been in US for a few months only on visitors Visa 3. Spring 2026 4.she received the offer 2 weeks ago
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u/Wise_Border_669 Dec 03 '25
OK, I believe you and you are a Chinese as well based on the comment and post you had. I can say some of Chinese students are not hired, but from I know, me, and two other students in CS department, has been working with a Purdue professor over a year, got oral and department offer, but never received an actual offer, after April 15th, I think they are giving a little by little time to time. So they don't give people an illusion of they banned all the Chinese.
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u/brendangalligan Dec 03 '25
Make sure she doesnât overstay her visa while she awaits a student visa. CBP is cracking down hard on those kind of violations. Itâs low hanging fruit for them: easy to catch and even easier to prove. Once they obtain a removal order, your odds of getting another visa to the states drop to near zero.
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u/AlexSandman8964 Dec 04 '25
Thanks for the reminder, the plan is to get her a trip to Canada and re-enter as a F1 student
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u/Bovoduch Dec 03 '25
âThings were fine for me, so clearly theyâre fine for everyone else tooâ
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u/AlexSandman8964 Dec 03 '25
Iâm simply trying to bridge the info asymmetry. If youâd rather stay immersed in your own resonance, thatâs fine by me
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u/Bovoduch Dec 03 '25
Right but you could do that in like 20 different ways that arenât implying op or the faculty are straight up lying based on your own anecdote lol
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u/TheQuakerator Dec 04 '25 edited Dec 04 '25
I see a lot of comments to the effect of "Chinese grad students are the best I have". This carries the implicit follow-up claim: "the American grad students I have access to are not as good as the Chinese grad students I have access to." In general, I don't like this attitude, and I think it's a foolish attitude to take.
I have a few thoughts on this, entirely unrelated to speculating as to why or why not Purdue banned Chinese grad students:
First, I agree that typically, foreign students (especially from China and India) are generally speaking superior students by the time they come to Purdue when compared to their American counterparts. This is certainly not always true, but it often is. I have distinct memories of struggling in a junior year partial differential equations course, and a Chinese acquaintance asking me if I really hadn't ever done this before. He said he covered it in high school. This happened many times as I got to know my fellow Chinese students. I remember a Chinese TA laughing with some of my fellow Chinese undergraduates when a professor released a revised version of a practice exam that was much easier than the prior version because most students were struggling to post high grades in the course.
There are some major differences in national policy and culture that drive this phenomenon.
China and India have four times as many people as the US. If you assume that the "intelligence", "discipline", and age distributions of the Chinese and US populations are equal, that means that for every 1 qualified American graduate student, there are 4 qualified Chinese and 4 qualified Indian graduate students. (Also, India and China tend to have more young people than the US, and outperform US populations on IQ tests within the types of educated, mostly urbanized populations likely to apply to college, so it may be more like 1:5:5, or even worse.)
China and India (and most of Asia and eastern Europe) work their students harder. The amount of classroom time, homework time, and studying time in general is much, much higher outside of the US; compare a South Korean engineer's pre-college experience to an American one and you will generally find a shocking difference.
China and India are far more competitive for college admissions. Look at the entrance exams for freshman at the IITs or within the flagship Chinese universities. Many exams are so difficult that seniors at Purdue would struggle to pass them.
So the reason that China is supplying superior graduate students is not because there's something in the water in China, it's that their systematic preparation of their graduate students is far, far more competitive and effective (as measured by performance standards at Purdue) than the US's method.
I personally know or am related to several senior professors at different universities, and it is frustrating to me that they repeat the line "my foreign grad students are so good" while not following it up with "if we fixed the US, then maybe my native grad students would be that good too".
I do not think it's good policy to fill the ranks of American research universities with foreign students who outperform native students because we can't get our act together as a nation in terms of education. A raw ban on Chinese grad students, or awarding grad student spots to inferior native students, isn't a smart or effective answer, but I have not seen a lot of discussion at the high levels on why we are so reliant on international students to fill seats in American colleges, nor discussion on why it's connected to our poor preparation of our native students.
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u/Superdude717 Boilermaker Dec 04 '25
This is a really good take. I agree with everything you said. This country has shot (and is shooting) its educatio system in the leg, then blaming countries that aren't for our inability to compete.
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u/TheQuakerator Dec 04 '25
100% agreed. The education system in the US is rife with superstition, fear, absurd pedagogy fads, and inability to track students/maintain effective and safe learning environments, and then it doesn't help when the president nominates clown candidates to run the Department of Education, which is in theory the only federal institution poised to help institute widespread reforms.
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u/Better-Sentence-8305 Dec 05 '25
LOL, not just run the DOE, but dismantle it. An absolutely insane move, by the way-even if states should be able to personalize curricula it's pretty clear to me that countries with high pedagogical outcomes (like many Asian/South Asian countries and states) have DOEs to control the quality of education for everyone...
Also-I do agree with you that there are systemic reasons why US-trained students are performing worse than Indian/Chinese students. The fact that funding has also decreased for PhD programs doesn't help this at all, which exacerbates these issues. I also think, though, that the people pushing these changes do not think that American students are lagging behind international counterparts and losing out-they see prospective Chinese grad students as both security threats and taking the places of equal American applicants, which is likely bias. To me, this sort of action reeks of xenophobia and, as you've stated, a lack of being in touch with the reality of why American students are generally performing worse year to year.
I will also note that Chinese and South Korean students generally also already have Masters' degrees before applying PhD, which probably gives them a leg up especially if they have graduated from a top-ranking university. If I am a PI, I'm absolutely taking the guy who puts in the work to get into into Peking/Tsinghua as well as a proven background in somewhat independent research over a recent BS degree from a US uni. Just my two cents though.
Sorry if this is an annoying long ramble after your post, but it really did get me thinking, so thank you for posting it.
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u/collin-h Dec 03 '25
Despite the fact that everyone wants to believe its xenophobia or racism, it's more likely espionage fears.
YEARS ago even, I was chatting with a research prof at Purdue and he casually mentioned they weren't allowed to hire Chinese students to be on their research staff because the US has issues with china sending intelligence assets over here posed a grad students. China even has a "law" that says "everyone is responsible for state security".... essentially, ever chinese citizen is a defacto intelligence asset for the State. Now, to what degree does China actually call in those obligations? who knows.
anyways.
just tossing my two cents in the convo that even tho it's en vogue to scream racism, it's more complicated than that (downvote button is right there btw, i know you're mad, so just press it)
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u/Wise_Border_669 Dec 03 '25
Valid point, wouldn't upvote or downvote.
But this kind of thing needs to be taken considering case to case. Me, a Chinese student, I have been in US for 10 years, I love US, and in the process of getting my green card. I couldn't get the offer that my professor at Purdue sent because of this. I wouldn't call this unfair, because there are people in African that are being killed, starving, I appreciate so much what I have. But the problem is, Purdue cannot secretly not accepting Chinese student, but claim they are welcoming everyone. The problem is they cannot just declare, hey we are not taking any Chinese, but they actually did the thing.
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u/Noraus_alt CompE 2024++ Dec 03 '25
Intl chinese students back in China wont even pass their security clearances for military/govt jobs because they have studied in the US and face the possibility of becoming a US intelligence asset. By the same logic, president chiang mung, was a Chinese national once, hmmmmâŚ.
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u/ThisismeCody Dec 04 '25
I support it for this reason. They're not playing fairly, and we don't need to either. Obviously we are talking about a fraction of the student population, but that's enough risk.
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u/bunnysuitman Dec 04 '25
think what you want about the variables you might consider in a decision like this, but theres a detail here that shoudl be centered.
They won't put it in writing.
if you have a policy you won't put in writing there is a reason and it is almost never a good one. Hell, even the formula for Coke is written down.
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u/Better-Sentence-8305 Dec 05 '25
Also they're just..taking foreign applicant's money without telling them they have a 0% chance because of their nationality. Not a good faith move.
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u/purdueGRADlife Dec 04 '25
Does anyone know the foreign student admissions percentages for other years if 23% being accepted is a significant decrease?
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u/BSIE1990 Dec 24 '25
It's unfortunate. But when your government makes you steal information then this rule is only appropriate.Â
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u/JOARDAN Jan 29 '26
Good. Why do our schools have to be filled with foreigners? Dont they have their own schools?
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u/fleshnbloodhuman Dec 04 '25
Iâm PROUD of my alma mater!!
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u/bunnysuitman Dec 04 '25
does this pride have any particular color?
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u/irish_faithful Dec 04 '25
US universities should prioritize educating our own citizens. This is common sense and not controversial. However, if there are unfilled spots, by all means invite people from other countries, but monitor for suspicious activity. Espionage is real folks.
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u/Better-Sentence-8305 Dec 05 '25
Respectfully....we are already doing that? No one is saying to preferentially admit int. students. But this is clearly just taking application money from foreign students and not allowing PIs to admit them in a very underhanded way. If Purdue was transparent about the practice this would be a very different story.
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u/irish_faithful Dec 05 '25
Welcome to all application processes. When I was applying to medical school, many schools were more than happy to send me secondary applications that I had the privilege of paying money to complete. Most of them had no intention of offering me an interview, but you have to play the numbers game. It is all a racket.
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Dec 03 '25
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u/paparellenos Dec 04 '25
Bro being racist online with your whole ass legal name as your username is craaaazy
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u/Actual-Explanation-7 Dec 05 '25
So based on your logic, every Chinese is your enemy? What a generalization of 1.4 billion people
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u/PinkyTrees Dec 04 '25
Espionage by foreign powers is absolutely an issue in the aerospace and defense industry today
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u/Rawinza555 BSc.AAE 2018 MSAA 2020. former TA in ENE Dec 04 '25
Wait, you guys have ITAR right? Pretty sure ITAR also applies when it comes to grad research as well.
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u/Schrodingers_Nachos AAE 2018 Dec 03 '25
The ban also includes North Korea among other countries. I'm now intruiged if there's ever been a grad student or application from North Korea.