Dota was originally a game mode in the blizzard game warcraft 3 but like usual company fumbles the bag and Dota 2 gets made and published by steam. Now one of the biggest games in the world.
Blizz was actively making DOTA 2 and had for years when valve announced DOTA 2 and blizz sued their asses
Valve even claimed "no no you see its not DOTA as in Defense of the Ancients the warcraft 3 mod that blizz, without actually being required to, paid the rights for ownership to its creator for! The word DOTA is one entirely of our own making and means nothing and the 2 is a symbolic gesture repsenting" bla bla bla
Valve just straight up committed copyright theft and got away with it after blizz decided to cut their losses and rename the project Heroes of the Storm
Valve just straight up committed copyright theft and got away with it after blizz decided to cut their losses and rename the project Heroes of the Storm
It would seem they did not or the court would have had a markedly different opinion. Not sure what claim blizzard would have to a custom map created and maintained by users anyway. It's not as if valve owns the vague concepts behind surf or fy maps either afaik.
Yeah Blizzard and Valve over here fighting over who gets to be Pepsi and who gets to be Dr. Pepper. Both of them lay awake at night dreaming of having made League of Legends.
It seems the courts disagree with you. And granted, the courts are not always right. But blizzard didn't do anything with the name dota since eul first made the game mode in 2003. Nor the 2001 aeon of strife starcraft custom game its based on. Why should eul and ice frog not be allowed to work for valve to make a proper game? If it doesn't use any blizzard assets or IP. You can argue the name, but I really don't feel like that name ever was something from blizzard
Well they had to change all of the characters and give them new lore when they were clearly based on designs from OG Warcraft 3. I grew up playing a lot of Warcraft 3 as a young kid, only in vanilla game modes though and offline, so when I started randomly playing DOTA 2 on launch with friends in highschool, I thought it was so neat to see so many characters I recognized as being derived from/based of Warcraft 3 characters I used to play.
Though I don't think the playable characters in the original Dota mod were the same as the characters that used the same character model in the story, like they were renamed with altered abilities, I could still tell they came from Warcraft 3 nonetheless.
I could tell Gyrocopter was originally the Dwarven Flying unit, that Omni Knight was the human paladin, Drow Ranger was a night elf archer, Nature's prophet was a night elf druid, Crystal Maiden was that female mage (Jane or whoever? I don't remember most names from W3, it's been so long) who could summon the water minion, morphing was the water minion as a standalone character, Abbadon was the Lich King etc.
But yeah, they defintely couldn't have them as the same as the Warcraft 3 characters, but I do think the Dota characters were already altered as is. To be safe though, they even made them different from that.
To behonest, if they wanted the name they should have copyrighted it. Idk at this point this is like trying to say no one ever should have made a moba until blizzard did it first. Which is insane, Valve just got the name first that's really it. Like a blue hedgehog once said "you are too slow!"
This is so inaccurate that it may as well be garbage.
The legal opposition was to valve trademarking DOTA. It had nothing to do with copyright - as blizzard had no copyrights to DotA since it was a fan game. You could only argue they had copyrights to the art assets. Blizz stated the name had existed for years in the community and trademarking "DOTA" would cause conflict and weakened valve's claim. The resolution was Valve could keep commercial trademark use of DOTA and blizzard could keep non-commercial usage within their community.
Valve didn't didn't commit any "copyright theft" and to say this is brazenly ignorant. They took the initiative and made DOTA a legitimate game after the creators had been trying to do so for years but were ignored. For reference, DotA started in 2003 and DotA 2 started development in 2009 then released in 2013. Blizzard didn't start working on their own version officially until 2011 while Heroes of Newearth and LoL had already come out in 2010 and 2009 respectively.
Blizzard could have been the first on the scene to have an official MMOBA but they slept on it and idiotically assumed it wouldn't be commercially successful and they did nothing. Steam took the initiative and made DOTA an official game while Blizz was too focused on WoW/SC2.
I don’t know how they didn’t see commercial viability when every other custom match was some form of Dota, and people created third party tracking apps and lists to boot people who would leave the game.
It was the early push for esports, rather than allowing it to grow naturally.
Which in hindsight is REALLY stupid, as the game worked really well as a casual moba. If they double downed on that aspect, instead of trying to compete directly with LOL and DOTA 2, the game would have been great.
The entire reason I like hots is because it wasn’t nearly as complex as other titles
Hots was fine as a more casual moba to play with non sweaty friends. I played both and HoN and LoL and basically every moba. Hots had its own niche and fit perfectly in it. You dont need to assert that hots sucks to say dota is good.
Valve hired the lead dev of the custom WC3 mod to work on what we now know as Dota 2. Blizzard was also making a sequel to that original mod at the same time, with the working name called "Blizzard Dota".
Both companies wanted to name their games using "Dota", and Blizzard tried to sue Valve into relenting, arguing that Dota is a trademark of Blizzard which eventually fell through, and Blizzard was the one that ended up relenting. They then shifted the project name to "Blizzard All-Stars" and then settled on "Heroes of the Storm".
Valve didn't steal anything. Your comment is full of half-truths.
No, Icefrog wanted to make DotA 2. Bilzzard told him to port it to SC2 (for free), he said nah, went to work with S2 games for a bit (Heroes of Newarth), then Valve said "Hey dude, here is a fat stack of cash, go make DotA 2 for us".
A lot of this is basically stories told down over the ages since what actually happened was lost to time, but Bliz basically didn't want DotA 2 as it was.
What Blizzard did is went and bought DotA trademark from this jackass named Pendragon (The guy who basically stole the DotA forums, kicked out Icefrog, took plenty of community ideas and use them for the basis of LoL), and then tried to claim all ownership of DotA.
Pendragon was not involved with LoL at all. I think you are mistaking Steve "Guinsoo" Feak with Pendragon. Feak was one of the cofounders of Riot games. He also the lead modder/maintainer of DotA Allstars after Meian and Ragn0r left. Feak then handed development of DotA Allstars to Icefrog when he stepped back in 2005.
Most of the ideas and basis of LoL was from Feak's time being lead of DoTA Allstars.
Except that isn't the actual literal case. One of the excerpts of the case was that Blizzard claimed they owned DotA as a brand, which they didn't, the OG creator of the map, and IceFrog after the fact, owned DotA as a brand.
Valve approached IceFrog about transitioning to an independent platform and that is, in essence, what the lawsuit was borne over. That IceFrog can't take DotA as a property over to Valve because they own "the map". But ToS in WC3 at that time had no stipulation for that and IceFrog won
Its why with WC3 Reforged the ToS was updated for the map editor to say that Blizzard owns any ideas born of that. It's also why WC3 Reforged completely replaces OG WC3 instead of being a new and different install file.
TL,DR; Saying valve stole it is horseshit when Valve hired the guy who maintained the original map to make DotA 2
except DOTA wasn't Blizzard's. It was a mod, and the main developers went to work at Valve, which allowed Valve to get the name DOTA. Blizzard had 0 standing.
This is not right. Icefrog who headed development of dota1 at the time approached blizzard with the idea of making a standalone dota2 game but blizzard rejected it. So he went to valve who took him in.
Because dota was made in custom maps, blizzard didn’t really have any copyright over it except for the names and likeness of the characters. They settled out of court and valve changed the names of a lot of the heroes.
Thats why blizz now has TOS in custom maps that they have copyright over it
Blizzard did not own the intellectual property in any capacity. It was a community made mod for Warcraft and at the time, all Blizzard did was require that mods not be sold for profit, and wanted zero claim to any intellectual property of what people built (any mod, not just dota)
Blizzard didn’t “allow” anyone to keep shit, the copyright simply belonged to Icefrog and Eul.
Valve HIRED the two of them, and from there they developed their own game and built it from the ground up using a separate engine entirely.
Blizzard then tried to retroactively claim ownership of the game afterwards, but legally they didn’t have much to stand on and couldn’t claim any of it as there’s since they didn’t actually come up with any of it. So no, Blizzard were the assholes here. Literally the only questionable part of Valves actions was the name itself and how the circumvented any issues with it
After all of this they changed their user agreement to make it so that ANY custom fan made map was automatically owned by blizzard.
God I love seeing people get history so fucking wrong a decade plus after it actually came out.
Federal Judge Charles Breyer of the Northern District of California lays out an excellent summary of Dota‘s development history in a recent ruling denying summary judgement for Heroes Charge developer uCool. Breyer explains how Dota started life in 2002 as a Warcraft III mod made by Eul (real name: Kyle Sommer), who created the mod on his own and thus holds the rights to the “setting, heroes, rules, and name.”
From there, in 2003, modders started to take “the best, most enjoyable characters from all the other version of Dota” and split off a new version of the mod called Dota All-Stars. A modder going by Guinsoo (real name Stephen Feak) soon took over this branch of the project, accepting and coalescing contributions from the modding community (unlike Eul, who largely worked alone).
By 2005, lead development of Dota All-Stars had transferred to IceFrog (real name: Abdul Ismail). After a brief stint with S2 Games to work on the Dota-like Heroes of Newerth, IceFrog was hired by Valve in 2009. In 2010, he sold Valve his rights to Dota 2 “for a handsome price,” as the ruling puts it. Valve later also hired Eul and acquired his rights to the game as well.
Guinsoo, meanwhile, was hired by Riot, which was working on the Dota-like League of Legends. Riot bought Guinsoo’s claim to the Dota copyright and sold it in turn to Blizzard. To avoid any clashes over the Dota name, Blizzard and Valve settled out of court in 2012. Valve would retain the rights to the name for standalone games like Dota 2, while Blizzard could use it to refer to Warcraft and Starcraft mods specifically (a project then called “Blizzard Dota” would eventually become Heroes of the Storm).
This was from a lawsuit from Blizzard and Valve against a mobile app company that was attempting to rip off DOTA themselves.
Valve didn't steal shit, Blizzard slept on their asses till they saw someone else making money off something that started out as a fan work from their games and got pissy. End of story.
Blizzard never touched the original Defense of the Ancients, even less so started to work on a sequel. Blizzard had talked with IceFrog but they didn't feel like it was the right time for a MOBA. Valve swooped in and hired IceFrog to make DOTA 2.
The esport DOTA league, DOTA Allstars, tried to sue Valve for the use of the name DOTA. Blizzard wanted in so they fucking bought DOTA Allstars in order to get back at Valve. DOTA Allstars, newly acquired by Blizzard, lost in court. It was a mod, it was never owned by anyone. Fun bit of bonus info, DOTA Allstars was owned by Riot Games, at the time. They sold DOTA Allstars to Blizzard because they were already working on League of Legends and didn't care about it anymore.
Understandably, Blizzard were absolutely livid about missing out on such a free opportunity, but to claim that anyone stole it from them is complete horseshit. They weren't able to recognize the opportunity and IceFrog just went someplace else. All they had to do was put him on retainer, but they didn't think it was necessary so he fucked off.
Well, except Blizzard didnt hire any of the Dota developers or creators so is it really their IP when the success came from independent developers just using their toolkit?
Valve hired the rest of the team that didn’t go create League of Legends while Blizzard just decided they could do a better job with their C-team developers pulled from other projects
I love how this ignores -- willingly or on purpose -- that IceFrog, one of the Lead Designers of DotA: Allstars, is also the creator of DotA 2.
Blizzard had passed on a DotA 2 with IceFrog ultimately in 2009, and IceFrog was subsequently hired with Valve. Valve didn't actually trademark Dota until after the reveal of Dota 2. The trademark for DotA: Allstars (via DotA: Allstars, LLC) wasn't even owned by Blizzard by the way, it was owned ultimately by Riot, and was subsequently acquired by Blizzard to fight Valve.
The reality is that Blizzard didn't actually do shit to fight for Dota until they realized the ten ton gorilla in the room, Valve, was going to be their competitor.
Tldr: blizzard had the option to do DotA 2 but passed and didn't take the dota name seriously until Valve threatened them. If Blizzard hadn't passed on hiring IceFrog, we probably would have gotten "Blizzard DOTA" as was teased at Blizcon 2010 instead of Heroes of the Storm in 2015.
That is pure and utter nonsense. Valve hired icefrog who was the one who actually worked on the game design for dota and by extension the moba genre as a whole. He is not a blizzard employee.
Warcraft 3's modding engine was used to make dota which is blizzard's only claim to dota. But valve is using their own engine separate from wc3 modding so no IP infringement there.
Icefrog owns the copyrights to the dota game design and valve hired him so if anything blizzard is the one who was trying to commit copyright theft by building a moba game clone of dota.
Blizzard didn’t have a copyright on DOTA in the end either way. Blizzard contribution to the MOBA genre in the end was a tool for other creators to create games with no owenership of it. Real question do you think gaming would be better of if dota 2 had been a blizzard product?
Blizzard was never making DOTA 2. Heroes of the Storm was never using the DotA brand and there were legal questions about if they could or if it belonged in part to the creator Eul.
Ancients are creatures in Warcraft lore so Valve didn’t want to use the term in the original trademark filing.
Both the original creator of DOTA, Eul, and the current maintainer responsible for growing the game, IceFrog, were employed by Valve before the game was announced.
Seems like Valve was right in stealing that shit because heroes of the storm is straight ass if that is what Blizzard saw of the MOBA that they could recreate.
Blizzard was not making dota or had anything to do with it. eul and icefrog made Dota.
Its well known that Blizzard has always had a strict hands-off approach to custom game modes and working with their communities. That ultimately bit them in the ass when Icefrog got in contact with Valve.
Ultimately, Blizzard wanted DotA2 scrubbed of anything remotely Blizzard IP related so characters and what not got renamed.
This infuriated the only 3 shareholders at Blizzard who pay attention. Blizzard basically gave away the golden goose by being so ignorant (and imho too prideful) of their community.
Now Blizzard literally makes you sign a waiver of all creative licenses and moral standings.
Yes, MORAL standings. Its in the damn warcrsft 3 EULA and its really fucked up if you read it. (I dont play starcraft 2 so I cant comment there).
Basically dont make custom games in Blizzard games or they own you.
Except blizzard tried to get ice frog on board for actual blizzard version of dota, and refused to get him on board (he was the current developer for allstars for years at this point) and wanted to buy it out and make it without him. He said no and talks stopped, but they tried to continue making it for years without progress.
Valve contacted icefrog at some point, and they were able to work out icefrog coming on board with Valve as lead developer for dota 2.
Mind you, Blizzard just copywrited the name dota many years before Valve released, or were even working on, Dota 2. There was no stealing Dota 2 from under Blizzard, they weren't even working on thing according to themselves, they were just salty they had the chance to make it and didn't capitalize on it, instead releasing and soon abandoning Heroes of the Storm instead.
This didn't happen.
Not sure where you got this info from, but Blizzard stonewalled the frog on making it independent b/c it was keeping wc3 alive while things like SC2 and project Ghost were in development, and Icefrog insisted on keeping primary creative control over the game.
Heroes of the Storm didn't get liftoff until after Icefrog agreed to work with steam and the info made its way back to Blizzard.
Blizzard realized they screwed up and tried to damage control the whole thing, but it was too late at that point.
(League of Legends also spawned off b/c Icefrog and Pendragon had a falling out over Pendragons enormous ego)
Think i heard this explanation from a friend on why the heroes where named different, i did ask what about pudge but they said his original is abomination so pudge is safe
See if Blizz had done the smart thing and you know, hired the person who was making dota and had made the most popular branch of it at the time (like Valve did) perhaps they could have succeeded.
It gets even more confusing. Ice frog, the long developer for Dots went to S2 and made HoN before leaving for Valve. Made it a weird 3 way lawsuit when they were fighting over the rights (and doxxed icefrog in the process)
almost everything you said is factually wrong. Ice Frog made DOTA, and Blizzard never owned it or any part of it. The lawsuit was triggered by Blizzard discovering that DOTA had been copyrighted by its creators... meaning they couldnt steal the fan games name and claim it for themselves. Courts sided with Ice Frog and Valve, because Blizzard were trying to illegally exert ownership over someone elses property.
I've been a Dota 2 fan since 2005. This isn't true either. Steam officially announced Dota 2 in 2010. I don't ever remember Blizzard actively trying to produce Dota 2, not even in wc3 or wc3 tft. But if you're talking about them approaching IceFrog, they were only talks and rumors. The rumors lasted roughly a year and a half until Steam announced Dota 2. I remember IceFrog partnering with Steam and there being huge backlash and skepticism. So no, Blizzard wasn't actively trying to do anything with Dota 2. There was a race with Riot with the next big MOBA and Blizzard was extremely late to the race, in addition, they didn't care to pursue anything other than their money cow (WoW).
Valve didn't commit copyright theft. The map IPs weren't strict back then. There was no agreement between Blizzard and the user. This was something heavily argued by Steam and the general community back then. Blizzard didn't ever think users would create an extremely popular game in their UMS feature, so why would they create such an agreement? Today that might be commonplace, but back then it wasn't even considered. They also changed a ton of the game's conceptual designs.
Not true, at the time they didn't even announced hots.
They didn't want to work with community and mod authors because they thought They know better
This was total and epic failure from blizzards side, they've had gold in their hands and failed to act on it.
There were so many user made games that Blizzard could have made into real games for people. DotA wasn't even the most popular. I'd love to see a universe in which competitive tower defence maps has been a popular thing.
No they didn't. They tried to work directly with mod makers and allow them to make money, and the backlash was SO HARD they removed all monetization from starcraft 2 before launch. NOBODY got in to making maps for SC2 seriously, because there was no way to get paid, so they all ditched for other platforms.
It's entirely on the community's reaction, and blizzard listening to it, that they lost the modding community from warcraft 3 that wanted to finally get paid for their work.
I remember one person made an RPG in the official creation tools for SC2. Blizzard sent them a cease and desist then removed the project from the servers.
Your point about making you sign over ownership was not a new thing post-DOTA 2. The line that gets quoted to 'prove' this, was in the map editor's eula since the original version installed alongside warcraft 3 from a disc. It's being new is just misinformation popularised by people that got angry that blizz kicked back about dota 2's ownership (before blizz caved and let valve keep it).
There's a little bit of history missing here. Dota was actually originally a starcraft 1 custom game mode (although still blizzard) called Aeon of strife. When warcraft 3 came out with its much better custom game mode, defense of the ancients was recreated in warcraft 3 reign of chaos and used mostly warcraft entities and assets (but basically the same game mode) by a man who goes by Eul. When warcraft 3 the frozen throne came out with its custom game mode improvements, Eul wasn't really able to carry the project so he pushed out his source code. There were a few competitors at the time in the frozen throne era (each with their own heroes and concepts) and much of that was coalesced with Dota allstars by Meian and Ragn0r. Steve Freak (aka Guinsoo) took over dota allstars circa 2004 which is where it exploded. I think at one point there were more people playing this game than the actual warcraft 3 title. Guinsoo stepped down and Neichor picked the project up with technical help from a man who goes by Ice frog, with the latter eventually taking over full time development. Ice frog was the lead of dota 1 for the rest of its life.
Guinsoo got picked up by riot to develop league of legends in 2009, while valve grabbed Eul and Ice frog (the first and most recent developers) to do a more faithful recreation, keeping many of the same characters, art style, and mechanics while League of legends went for something different.
Dota actually funnily enough I believe is not allowed to stand for "Defence of the ancients" as that's a game mode considered blizzards property. many characters that were too similar to blizzard units had to be tweaked. But otherwise, dota 2 really is a pretty smooth transition from dota 1.
Where did Hon, Heroes of Newerth come into all of this. I remember playing HoN before Lol came out and stayed with HoN because it didn’t feel like a cartoon like LoL did
This happens in college dorms when your roommate forgets to tell he's got his girl over... again and you're done. So you sit your ass down and play some games
Someone else probably knows more, but I do know that DOTA came from Blizzards Defense of the Ancients mod for Warcraft III. And Valve purchased DOTA and then made DOTA2. I also know there was some legal stuff, esp with the name
People made defense of the ancients in wc3 custom maps. They asked blizzard if they wanted to hire them to make it a full game because it was quite popular. Blizzard told them to pound sand. They went to valve and valve hired them to make DOTA2. Blizzard got jealous and took them to court. Blizzards argument was that it was made in WC3 and thus the idea was theirs. There was nothing in custom game mode requiring blizzard to own anything created. So they made warcraft 3 deforged just to update the terms that anything made in custom games was their property. So now nobody makes anything good in custom games because blizzard will own it.
Dota was a mod for Blizzard's Warcraft III (the entire game existed on Blizzard's engine and was subject to its EULA which prohibited commercial use of World Editor content and gave Blizzard rights over derivative content)
When Valve (Gabe Newell) hired IceFrog in 2009 o build a standalone commercial sequel, it was effectively commercializing something that, under Blizzard's EULA, wasn't supposed to be commercialized
Blizzard filed a formal opposition against Valve's attempt to register DOTA's trademark, arguing the name had been used exclusively by Blizzard and its fan community for the past 7 years.
It was settled in 2012 and Gabe Newell retained the rights to used DOTA commercially.
Everyone's already explained the Dota side of things. But the meme also references the "Spore-chan" a.k.a Deira Hanzawa videos. Just google it. Blizzard is the friend playing another game on the computer (and casually making conversation) while Dota and Gaben are playing with each other.
Dude, holy shit, I know it's porn but that shit's legit nostalgia lol
I was dumbfounded when I saw the video of her drinking the Arizona ice tea naked on the bed while the fat friend was yapping about some dumb shit. 4chan was crazy back then.
DotA was a player made game mode for Warcraft 3. The creators tried to partner with Blizzard, but Blizzard didn't see them designing the game mode as a valuable contribution, and Blizzard was focused on other projects. So he partnered with Valve (Gabe's company).
When DotA2, the stand alone game took off and was a major hit, Blizzard tried to sue and lost hard.
They're so salty about it, that 20 some years later in Warcraft 3 Reforge, they have like an ironclad EULA that gives them full ownership of any player made creations.
Dota was a Warcraft 3 mod. Blizzard never really engaged with it, so valve adapted the idea and a bunch of the characters, changing them where needed to avoid copyright issues
I'm confused. Wasn't the MOBA genre originally born in Starcraft 2 customs? So, Blizzard was really only fighting over the name DOTA at that point, right?
I was a beta tester for DotA in both WC3 & DotA2 on steam.
Blizzard fucked this up so hard it wasn't even funny.
Icefrog went to them not once, not twice, but *several* times telling them he'd continue to do the work to turn it into an independent game.
Now, this was *after* years of asking Blizzard tech support to fix shit or patch shit so he could make the game more involved, fix bugs or issues (Ursa Fury swipes vs Scorps Caustic Finale interaction being a big one) - and they'd occasionally toss a bone his way.
After a lot of talking, some drama involving half truths and broken promises, the frog got an offer from Steam he couldn't refuse: everything he asked for from blizzard and more.
The rest is history
Blizzard didn't go all in with DOTA because that was when wow was getting started. Considering how much money wow made I'm pretty sure we can see who the winner is.
Ps. Dota sucks. It's not even as good as lol (which also sucks)
DOTA was originally a mod of Warcraft (not World of Warcraft, the original Warcraft RTS). Blizzard didnt show any interest in DOTA, Valve did.
Valve hired the lead designer of the DOTA mod to create DOTA 2, a standalone game running on the Source engine. DOTA 2 is extremely profitable and a massive game, this is a Blockbuster not buying Netflix level blunder on Blizzards part.
To build on what’s already been said in this thread - DOTA was just the tip of the iceberg. Every copy of Warcraft 3 came with a free map editor program which for the time was an incredibly powerful and relatively user friendly tool that let you create and customize units, items, maps, triggers, mechanics, and more all within the WC3 engine, All ready to jump out of the box using WC3’s timeless stylized models. There was an absolute explosion of user generated games on blizzard’s online play platform, Battle.net. Battle.net at that time was primarily meant to host ladder games of Warcraft 3 itself, but there was also a custom games tab where anyone could upload and create lobbies for user made games. Downloading the map was as simple as joining a game lobby for that map hosted by someone else, and from then on you could create you own lobbies for the same game, if you wanted to.
DOTA became the most well known of these custom games by far, but there were endless user-made games being created, shared, hosted, tweaked, and shared again on Battle.net.
You could log in at any hour of day and dozens of custom games would be up and running. Everything from simple arcade style games (Kodo Tag, Run Kitty Run, Darwin’s Island/Evolution), to casual/silly party games (Uther party aka Warcraft Mario party, Peon Olympics, Pudge Wars) to complex and often asymmetric team survival games with unique units and tech trees (Ice & Island Troll tribes, Vampirism, Werewolf), arena / unit spamming games (Footies, Hero Line Wars, X hero siege) incredible Tower defense games, movie scene recreations (Helms Deep, Minas Tirith, Zombie games…), long form cooperative RPGs with exportable/importable character progression meant to be played over many sessions, board game recreations like Warcraft Risk, and of course, other MOBAs like Tides of Blood.
All that and more. It was a golden era, not only of Blizzard games in general, but of creativity and online play - an incredible phenomenon organically grown by cooperation and trust between developers and players, the likes of which I’ve never seen before or since. I lost countless joyful hours to WC3 custom games in middle school all the way through university and I think on the game fondly to this day.
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u/qualityvote2 8h ago edited 4h ago
u/Life_Programmer_4927, your post does belong here!