r/MasterSystem • u/Legitimate-Depth-982 • 13d ago
Sound system in SMS - Super Mario perspective
I was playing the new Super Mario on the USA SMS (no YM chip), and the first thing that surprised me was the near-identical sound. I've often thought the SMS sound chip was fundamentally different from the NES, but this port proves otherwise. I kind of feel like the sound design ideas started from a very different place on the SMS for most titles. Any insights?
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u/khedoros 13d ago
There are a couple of things like frequency and volume sweeps that can be done automatically in the NES hardware, that you have to control manually in SMS. And the NES has a few options for duty cycles on the square waves that I don't think SMS does. But the SN76489 (aka SMS sound chip, aka PSG) is more similar to the NES APU than not.
The YM2413 (FM sound) works completely differently, a more complicated arrangement using modulation of sine waves, with predefined "instrument" settings. There are 1 or 2 games made for the Famicom that included a similar chip in the cartridge, with the VRC7 mapper, but most Famicom/NES games can't match it.
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u/Legitimate-Depth-982 12d ago
Thanks this is what I was looking for. I agree about the ym chip in famicom games. It’s so strange.
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u/TooManyBulborbs 12d ago
There’s 4 games for Famicom with FM sound.
VRC6 = Esper Dream 2, Mouryou Senki Madara, Akumako Densetsu
VRC7 = Lagrange Point
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u/YossiTheWizard 12d ago
You’re very correct on the NES sound chip having features that saved the CPU from doing all the work. I had a functioning (but incomplete) port when Lackoftrack released theirs. The NES sound chip had what you said, and also a simple timer, so you can send an instruction to only make noise for a certain amount of time. The SN76489 makes no noise until you tell it to, and doesn’t shut up until you tell it to.
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u/YossiTheWizard 12d ago
Oh, and only one FC game uses the YM derivative chip. Tiny Toons 2 uses the VRC7 as a mapper chip, but doesn’t use the sound chip like Lagrange Point does.
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u/flickering_poly 12d ago edited 10d ago
This port uses both the SN76489 chip and the FM synth YM2413 chip at the same time during gameplay. Not sure if it works on real hardware but it sounds better than most official SMS games. This was only done for the JP BIOS screen back in the day, the space harrier theme
It was done fairly often on the MSX2 though (pairing its YM chip with the AY-3 chip instead) - in Final Fantasy, Sorcerian and the Xak games for example
Western games (and the GG) used only the first chip, which uses the 3 square waves and noise as mentioned (the noise could be changed into periodic noise which is a bit like a saw wave). So it's a basic PSG chip. JP games generally used only FM instead.
Some of the better PSG examples:
Alien 3 (SMS/GG) - periodic noise in most tracks
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u/Legitimate-Depth-982 10d ago
I just have the USA system, no YM chip for me, and I'm quite happy with the sound.
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u/flickering_poly 10d ago
Oh I didn't catch that. The only major difference you'd notice would be in the bass if you compare them, since there's no triangle wave on SMS. SMB1 uses only 50% square waves for the lead and harmony, and the drums are basic noise, so those sound the same on SMS.
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u/MeringueSerious 13d ago
What would be the best way to play SM bros on the master system? Is there anyone selling cartridges? I’d love to try it out on my system
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u/Legitimate-Depth-982 13d ago
Get one of those SD card to master system adapters or use the Genesis equivalent with a model one or two
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u/No-Professional-9618 12d ago edited 12d ago
On a surface level, the sound in the Sega Master System and the NES may seem different.
The Sega Master System has a YM2413 chip. Yet, only on Japanese Sega Master System consoles was the (FM sound enabled by default.
With some clever programming, the Super Mario Bros. port for the Sega Master System had great sound.
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u/Legitimate-Depth-982 12d ago edited 12d ago
Texas Instruments SN76489 for all. Yamaha YM2413 as an add on then integrated later in Japan only
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u/No-Professional-9618 12d ago
Interesting. I see. Yes, I believe the Texas Instruments SN76489 was used within the Coleco Adam computer as well.
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u/blueblocker2000 12d ago
Odd they would gimp the sound on the US sms on purpose.
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u/No-Professional-9618 12d ago
Yes, I know what you mean. Even the Japanese version of Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link and Metroid had different sound than their American counterparts.
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u/Nirntendo 10d ago
İ loaded this on a flashcart and İ am playing it on real hardware, the Sega master system 2, with a blue retro dongle on it configured with a Nintendo switch classic NES wireless controller and it runs so so nice.
Highly recommended.
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u/ClassicMacAndNeXT 5d ago
Super Mario didn't push the sound chip very hard tbh
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u/Legitimate-Depth-982 5d ago
I agree. But it was very enlightening hearing the iconic sounds coming from the SMS
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u/itotron 12d ago
I mean who knows what that port is doing? There aren't as many constraint when you remove the hardware It could be emulating the NES sound chip, it could be emulating a audio mapper chip like found in later cartridges, it could even just be a recording of the music. There aren't any storage limits.
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u/stomp224 13d ago
The NES had 2 square waves, a triangle wave and a noise channel. SMS has 3 square waves and a noise channel. The triangle wave was primarily used for bass sounds in music, so that might be why you aren't really hearing the difference?
Id have to hear it myself to be sure but that's my best guess