r/LiveFromNewYork • u/nitro4450 • 16d ago
Musical Guest Between Katseye tonight and Cher last Xmas, we all owe this woman an apology
96
u/ConsiderationClear56 SNL 16d ago
It was her denial that made the whole thing such a thing! We all know what we saw! 😂
→ More replies (1)
123
u/beebs44 15d ago edited 15d ago
Ashlee Simpson's performance was a total train wreck. She walked off the stage.
I mean, things happen when you're performing. You fight through them and get them sorted out. She simply left the stage while her band remained playing.
And then she tried to do damage control at the end of the show. Blaming her band for playing the "wrong song."
69
u/Lex_Loki 15d ago
This. People seem to forget that she handled it terribly. Had she just carried on, it would have been a nothing burger. But instead she did her stupid little jig, left the stage completely, then tried to blame her band. That is why it became a moment. She made it a moment.
→ More replies (1)6
5
u/Unsalted-Pretzel624 15d ago
Totally agree it’s how she handled it.
Zara Larson had a whole ass heel break and she still performed her set without skipping a beat and a smile on her face.
→ More replies (1)
67
u/emotions1026 15d ago
The fact that basically the whole music industry was lip-syncing in 2004 and no one said anything in Ashlee’s defense was always interesting.
36
u/wazacraft 15d ago
I'm pretty sure it's because she had just recently (before that show) publicly said that she didn't lip sync ever and that anyone who did wasn't a "real artist" or something like that.
41
u/OkFortune6494 15d ago
I don't owe her shit.
6
u/rickyg_79 15d ago
Seriously, whether lip-synced or sung live her music sucked ass
→ More replies (1)
63
u/kitten_orchestra 15d ago
No we don’t. They can all be criticized for doing a bad job.
→ More replies (3)16
u/Infinite_Spring_3564 15d ago
Exactly. I’m not OK with this recent mass lowering of standards for live performance effort and quality, even if practically everyone else is.
98
u/BrovaloneSandwich 16d ago
They weren't even moving their mouths, they weren't even trying to pretend they were singing
83
u/June-Rose98 16d ago
They were singing with a backtrack. Two members are on hiatus but they don’t sing those members parts during their absence so that’s why they weren’t moving their mouths at times
48
u/your_mind_aches 16d ago
I know the general history of Katseye and that they're dropping members like flies, but couldn't one of the other girls just sing that part?
→ More replies (3)23
u/June-Rose98 15d ago
Yeah they def could sing those parts haha but some k-pop groups don’t do that out of respect for the member on hiatus and it also helps the other members since they don’t need to adjust the choreo or line distribution
18
u/your_mind_aches 15d ago
I'm rewatching it and it really doesn't sound live and I can pull out a couple parts where we hear multiple voices but nobody is singing. I get a back track but it's basically a lead track right?
6
u/dietcholaxoxo 15d ago
there's literally parts in some of the songs like hootie frootie where you hear them bumping into the mics lol how are you unable to discern the difference between a backtrack and mics on vs full lip sync? also do you know how hard it is to fully sing and dance like these girls? for live shows it's almost necessary to have a backtrack. though I think the SNL sound engineering put too much back track
→ More replies (1)2
u/Comfortable_Fill9081 15d ago
No. Each is singing their main vocal. Hootie Fruity has more layers of vocals and on the recording they are double recorded singing their main vocals and the backing vocals.
So they had a backing track with the backing vocals and sang their main vocals.
12
u/your_mind_aches 15d ago
But the backing vocals are barely distinct from the lead.
If you perform a song with layers like that live on SNL usually they have live backup singers or even if it's a backing track they at least have a significant amount actually singing.
I don't really get why the others can't sing backup for the one currently singing lead
→ More replies (3)3
u/otonarashii 15d ago
Right? When BTS was on they had backup singers for their first number. Katseye belongs to the same company as them so HYBE could have sprung for a few backups.
8
u/otonarashii 15d ago
There's something about this comment that sits so badly with me as a longtime K-pop fan. There seems to be an expectation here that your average SNL viewer is supposed to know who Sophia is and be as emotionally invested in her hiatus as Katseye fans are, so the viewer can be as forgiving of so much of the song not being sung live. This is Katseye's introduction to a wider audience and it's HYBE's job to do this properly. If they want the general audience to care about Sophia's contributions to the group, they could have done something like have clips of her on screen in the back singing the chorus. A Tribe Called Quest did this years ago on SNL for a member of theirs who died earlier in the year.
3
u/June-Rose98 15d ago
There isn’t that expectation. You aren’t always going to be the target market for the musical acts, and that’s fine. There have been plenty of performances where I don’t know who someone is or anything about them or understand why they are doing something, but I don’t complain and moan just because I don’t understand it. Everyone has different tastes and every artist/group is going to have different generations that are their fans. They bring in a new audience to the show and that’s good!
→ More replies (1)3
u/moviescriptlife Smashmouth is in my closet 15d ago
So instead, they disrespect the audience! Nah. Fuck that.
20
u/BrovaloneSandwich 16d ago
During a chorus? The microphones were props.
3
u/Far-Imagination2736 15d ago
The chorus is the bit Sophia sings (the missing member)
3
u/weeblewobble82 15d ago
Obviously I know nothing about this group, but why is one member missing?
3
u/Far-Imagination2736 15d ago
Two members are missing
One is missing for unknown reasons, both the company and herself are acting cryptic about it
The one I was talking about Sophia is on a mental health hiatus
→ More replies (5)5
→ More replies (1)2
u/RedditFan3510 15d ago
except 80% of the time they aren't even singing on the backtrack. It sounds EXACTLY the same virtually every performance, they either need to up the volume on their mics or it's on purpose
3
u/turkeypants Marci Jamz!😮 15d ago
In the first song, the third girl was singing what I think was the chorus, but then the chorus kept going like that and she stopped even bothering to raise the microphone up to her face while the same voice on the tape kept singing and they all just did their dance with mics down. It just looked bad, like why bother.
I guess we just acknowledge that some acts up there are wholly about the music, some are wholly about the visual and choreo, and some are various points in between. We'd like for all of them to be fully live but that's just often not the way it really goes. It's not like we were missing out on great artists' performances on material like this.
→ More replies (1)2
u/BrovaloneSandwich 15d ago
It just sucks that SNL favours mass produced talentless garbage rather than giving the stage and publicity to real musical talent
2
u/turkeypants Marci Jamz!😮 15d ago
Oh you won't hear any argument from me. My comment last night was that it was throwaway plastic garbage music. I don't think it deserves to be on SNL and I never want it, but they book what they book for popularity reasons. A bunch of Katseye people surely tuned in last night and will watch the clips on TikTok and NBC will get paid. For a group like this, lip syncing might even be preferable because I presume they don't have the actual talent to sing well live. It would be better if they were never on there, but if they are, press play and let's get this over with.
1
u/you-are-the-problem 15d ago
in 3 years, people won’t know who Katseye is. they’re forgettable and impossible to distinguish from any other girl group out right now. they have mediocre vocals that i can hear at a karaoke bar on any given week.
→ More replies (1)
33
u/KaiserSoze-is-KPax 15d ago
No we don’t, she was just as untalented, had a major blunder and handled it poorly. Trying to blame your band for your lack of talent is not cool.
27
u/ConsiderationLivid52 15d ago
We absolutely do not!!!..(does a little jig as I exit this post)
3
19
u/wet_castles 16d ago edited 15d ago
lol nothing can make up for how hard I laughed at this random gig. Fool
212
u/Vegetable-Kiwi-4675 I’m allergic to dairy 16d ago
Um, Cher may have lip-synced at 80, but don’t you dare put her in the same category as those two talentless clown shows. She is a legend with a great voice.
50
u/ZooterOne 16d ago edited 16d ago
Hell, after hearing the two Katseye songs tonight, I wouldn't dare put Ashley Simpson in the same category as that talentless outhouse fire.
→ More replies (1)43
u/Vegetable-Kiwi-4675 I’m allergic to dairy 16d ago
100% Plus that first song was a complete ripoff of Britney’s Toxic. They’re like human AI music.
23
3
u/laziestmarxist 15d ago
Yeah if Cher wants to lip sync I don't give a fuck, I'm just glad she's still here and still recording music
That Christmas song is decent enough anyway
9
→ More replies (4)5
16
u/duchello 15d ago
I just watched both videos, the girls sang. There was a studio backing track but their mics were fully on and you should distinguish their live vocals. The only awkward part not having anyone of the 4 pick up the missing vocalist's part, I'm surprised they performed animals with it being such a heavy Sophia song
8
u/snowflakebite 15d ago
And jeez, I dislike their musical direction but as performers they are the opposite of untalented. They all are solid singers and dancers and I guess, just not the target audience of SNL viewers. But I would give them grace because of their infamous management and young age.
2
u/Masta-Blasta 15d ago
Yep. Everything about them works except for the music. Which, you know, is kind of important lol.
2
u/bearskyy 12d ago
yeah, it’s honestly bizarre. i have a lot of nieces and nephews so i’m pretty up to speed with a lot of the new younger artists but i can’t for the life of me understand the direction their team is taking them in. they have the talent, so why mask it with extremely polarizing music?
7
12
u/Delicious-Explorer58 15d ago
I’ve always believed that the thing that hurt Simpson the most was doing the weird dance and then trying to blame the drummer.
If she had just owned it and laughed at herself, maybe things could’ve blown over.
→ More replies (1)5
u/helpingdew 15d ago
Isn’t the little dance basically that? She basically turns into the looney tunes frog and shuffles off the stage
→ More replies (1)
6
47
u/Airweldon 16d ago
Maybe I’m too old for it. But they were not good. Really good looking, but not great.
58
u/BurgerNugget12 HR PICKENS 16d ago
You aren’t too old, I’m Gen Z and they are overhyped and corporate as fuck
28
u/culminacio SPACE OLYMPICS 15d ago
I started reading their Wikipedia article yesterday and after several paragraphs it was still about their brand, appearance and beauty style, so on a meta level, that also told me enough about them.
→ More replies (6)2
u/Maybedeadcat123 14d ago
You won't understand how HAPPY I am to see people finally agree that katseye as a group and their direction is genuinely bad
24
u/good_vibes1 15d ago
Millennial here. I was at the SNL dress rehearsal tonight - I had never heard of them before. After the first performance I said to my friend, are we old?? Is this good??
→ More replies (2)4
6
u/your_mind_aches 16d ago
Yeah I mean that is what they're supposed to be at the end of the day. Sort of like Fifth Harmony if you remember that. Also formed from a talent show.
14
u/browsinbowser 16d ago
Fifth harmony only had a few good songs but they had a more consistent sound.
This group has a room full of corporate people workshop their songs and its still tiktok nonsense and half aimed at kids even though they dress sexy lol.
→ More replies (1)2
7
4
u/InnocentTailor 15d ago
That is kinda the hallmark of K-Pop - manufactured hype with slick production values.
Their fans were happy, if nothing else. You could hear cheers in the audience.
17
u/Super-Feedback8813 16d ago
Only 4/6 of the girls actually performed because 2 of them are on “hiatus” (potentially left?) the group. It sucks because they are so talented but they have absolutely no say in anything. So these teens/young women are overworked and stuck with dogshit music with hypersexualized choreo.
vogue have did a great breakdown if you are interested!
13
u/Airweldon 16d ago
I absolutely sympathize with them being in a shitty music and working situation. I mostly direct my frustration toward NBC Universal and SNL’s booking for subjecting us to a group giving less than 70% due to their crappy treatment.
3
u/weeblewobble82 15d ago
So that's an interesting article. Basically Katseye is an ad. Most of the article has nothing to say about their music until the end and even then it's about selling stuff for large corporations
5
u/ok-lets-do-this 15d ago
I wouldn’t even agree with the “really good looking” statement. Their look is popular with a particular demographic, but it’s definitely not universal.
5
u/TheLegendChuk 16d ago
Just the newest iteration of pop lol it's meant to be catchy and get stuck in your head, not be musically significant
3
→ More replies (9)5
u/SplitOpenAndMelt420 15d ago
The funny thing about them is their songs are either the single worst things I've ever heard (gnarly, hootie fruity) or genuinely great pop songs (touch, pinky up)
I guess that's what happens when the group's music is written and produced by a committee of adult men
I don't blame the girls because they write not a single word of any of these songs lol
That being said, yeah, it took me a minute to get used to them. At first I announced they were the death of music, but I honestly think some of their stuff is fun.
(41, male)
8
2
u/Natural_Pear_1549 10d ago
I've always loved the "You're too old to get it" replies about groups whose songs are all written by some middle-aged Swedish man.
→ More replies (2)4
4
5
12
u/Odd-Necessary3807 16d ago
The difference between those two and Ashlee Simpson's snafu is that Katseye and Cher went on without pause. While Ashlee paused awkwardly and did, the, dance!
3
3
4
9
13
u/Ashtonia_Melvonious 15d ago
No we don't. Ashlee stood on that stage and tried to blame her band because "they started playing the wrong song". I guess she didn't L.O.V.E. her band or care much about the pieces of her career. 🥴
11
u/make_me_breakfast 15d ago
Let’s stop acting like katseye is some sort of prestigious musical act though first.
9
u/kyleacamp 15d ago
I mean they’re not lip syncing in the traditional sense of it, it’s kinda silly to compare the two. There’s a backing vocal track because the choreography is the main focus, and their mics were clearly on. This is pretty typical for pop groups.
→ More replies (2)
3
3
3
u/relientkenny 15d ago
Cher is Cher. we know already know she’s gonna do whatever wants and we gonna enjoy it regardless 😂
7
u/jo3yhuds 15d ago
Apologize to the Christmas Cher right now. Shit taking an 80 year old legend. You should feel ashamed of yourself.
2
4
u/Stillwiththe 15d ago
Nah you can still shit on everyone who lip-syncs and F Ashley Simpson because she pointed the finger at her band
6
u/Hutch_travis 15d ago
Ashlee Simpson would have survived if her career mostly existed because of her sister. It’s one thing to lip sync, it’s another to lip sync while have a career that was built by a record label or TV producer.
→ More replies (1)
5
u/KarmelCHAOS 16d ago
We owe Karmin an apology, I still don't know why that performance literally ended Karmin lmao
4
6
15d ago
[deleted]
5
u/Godzlittlehand 15d ago edited 15d ago
Walked into a Cher concert. Hertz arena Estero, FL. 2019. Cher was lipsyncing that ENTIRE show.
3
4
u/Mysterious-Snow496 15d ago
Lip syncing should always be criticized.
Even Ozzy sang his songs at his last concert and he was literally on his death bed.
Artists should always be called out for faking it. Art is supposed to be subjected to criticism.
→ More replies (2)2
u/hunter2mello 15d ago
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. Just another sign of society getting dumber. Criticism is fine especially when constructive. The more we just let people slide with lack of effort in one area, the more able we are to let things slide in another area.
2
2
2
u/quickdrawmcsmokes 15d ago
Damn, im old but it was fine and choreo was very good. Brunson was great
2
2
2
u/suck-it-elon 15d ago
I’ve never criticized Jessica for lip syncing either, but yeah Cher did cause she’s old and her voice is gone and Katseye is “k-pop” and they do it all the time. It’s fine
2
2
u/Starscream147 15d ago
Eh.
Not really, no.
Those musicians with her were left high and dry.
Bollocks.
Last night should not have happened. Absolute 🗑️
2
u/Cactus-Brigade 15d ago
The musical group Katseye was so generic and over the top sexual with zero substance.
7
6
u/MattTreck 16d ago
I mean, it wasn’t her fault to begin with. She was sick and they had her go out and lip sync anyways. Then SNL proceeded to fuck up the audio.
5
u/Comfortable_Fill9081 15d ago
Katseye wasn’t lipsyncing though. They had a backing track with some vocal layers for Hootie Fruity because the song has a lot of vocal layers.
But they were also each singing their main lines live.
→ More replies (24)
3
3
u/ApeMachine 15d ago
I gotta bring this up because I never see anyone mention it. 60 minutes was doing a piece on SNL the same week as Ashley was there. Mid interview with someone else in rehearsals Ashley ran by crying, and it was revealed she was sick and her throat was inflamed and she was worried she wouldn’t be able to sing.
So this is not to defend the reaction or the denials, but it does give a critical bit of context for why she chose to do this in the first place
5
u/Alphonze 16d ago
This is a dumb comparison. I don't like Katseye all that much but their entire schtick is the choreography - the vocals are just fluff.
Very different compared to having a live band and the lead member has one job which is to sing.
→ More replies (6)
4
u/jamintime 16d ago
She just gave up and walked off stage. Just because you didn’t like Cher or Katseye doesn’t put them anywhere near how epically embarrassing Ashlee’s performance was. The lip-synching was only the beginning.
4
u/jwoo3x 15d ago
Yeah...katseye comes off like a temu pussycat dolls...😂😂...
Who also lip synced almost exclusively but they emphasized the dance troupe aspect more so than trying to pass as legitimate 'musicians'...er singers...
Per other replies I'm old man yells at clouds demo so kpop fashioned girl group isn't my jam but plenty of female pop artists can and do sing so no passes given for katseye who.....were on snl because 🤔🤔🤔... tik tok andor YouTube vitality i guess?
→ More replies (1)
4
2
2
2
u/spoookytree 15d ago edited 15d ago
I haven’t watched the episode but just watched both Katseye’s performances. What’s the problem? They did and sounded great?
Edit: Yeah read through comments I see now lol.
They aren’t lip syncing, the parts you hear vocals and no singing is because the member who was with them during these songs is on hiatus and they don’t sing her part out of respect.
1
1
1
1
u/Blueberry_Rabbit 15d ago
In the people’s defense- what sucked is it was a song she already performed.
If they “played the right song” we’d never know. ALSO, she went back to SNL in 2005 and redeemed herself.
1
u/Lurker-Forever-986 15d ago
No, Ashlee tried to throw her band and the crew under the bus instead of just admitted she had a dub track.
1
1
1
1
u/pudgybunnybry 15d ago
Sorry, no, any musician lip syncing their songs deserves the criticism they get.
1
1
u/An_educated_dig 15d ago
How about Joe Simpson owes an apology for abusing the Public with two talentless turds?
1
u/CheersToCosmopolitan 15d ago
Hear me out: we don’t owe her an apology and lip-syncing on live tv (aside from the Thanksgiving Day parade) is an unforgivable offense
1
u/Soft-Sea7012 15d ago
At the time, lip syncing was considered fraudulent and more so in a rock band. Today, no one sings live or sings well except for true professionals. Can't judge today by yesterday's rules. I mean you can. Judge away.
1
1
u/ISAY-nah 15d ago
The pressure and scrutiny for woman of early 2000 was emence. Look at her sister. No one takes accountability nowadays, so everyone can suck a dick!
1
u/turkeypants Marci Jamz!😮 15d ago
The thing is, Lorne for years said it's all live when it's clearly not. Acting surprised about Ashlee's situation. Backing tracks are a normal thing in many live performances including SNL, whether we like it or not, and have been for a long time. Why pretend they're not? She did it and so have a bunch of others, both before and after her. It's more obvious with some than others. Like last night during Katseye's first song, no one was even bothering to hold up their microphones to their mouths during one part where somebody was singing lead on the backing track. But look to Britney, JLo, dancier acts back then, etc. Lots of backing tracks or outright lip syncing. Her situation was just a trainwreck stemming from a mistake. Others did the same thing with no mistake.
1
1
u/Boot_Burner 15d ago
Pretty soon Katseye is going to have no members and they’re just going to play their AI generated slop over loudspeakers
1
1
u/From-cradle-to-tomb 15d ago
No, we don't. I agree that we should be reckoning with the intensity of the misogyny of the 2000s entertainment media apparatus, i don't think that should require us to retcon Ashlee Simpson into being an interesting artist or performer.
1
u/RainForestBathing 15d ago
Or we can admit that all 3 performances were terrible and went against the spirit of the show.
1
u/wescrusherssweaters 14d ago
Over the last three seasons, I’d say 1 out of 4 artists don’t lip sync.
1
u/Ok_Baby9316 13d ago
KATSEYE were doing intricate hard choreography at least - what was Ashlee doing dd
1
u/RiffRanger85 13d ago
She wasn’t even fully lip syncing. She was singing along to a backing track which is extremely common. She only got shit for it because she panicked and blamed her band.
1
1
u/Only_Presentation758 13d ago edited 13d ago
Katseye was ridiculous; their elaborate choreography apparently didn’t include actually holding the mic up during half of the lyrics or who was supposed to be “singing” what. When I went onto Youtube to see reactions the comments were first turned off, then a slew of very similar “OMG — SLAYYY!” type planted comments appeared all at once. I didn’t see the Cher one but Mariah Carey had a horrible NYE lipsync effort a few years back.
I still like SNL for the skits but I’ve really lost respect for them re. some of their musical guests. Same with Rolling Stone and what happened with MTV. All became shadows of their original counterculture cool.
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/nekogatonyan 10d ago
Okay, so I watched it. I think the girls are singing sometimes, and it's clear they're working hard. They're talented with dancing.
But their song is dumb. There's only so much they can do to make a dumb song look good. Their concept is trashy.
The girls are hard workers, but their image and whoever wrote their songs kinda sucks.
1
881
u/PinkCadillacs 16d ago
I feel like people would’ve been more forgiving if she hadn’t done that stupid dance and blamed her band