r/Judaism • u/getitoffmychestpleas • 11h ago
Discussion How do you interpret the concept of "the sins of the fathers . . . visited upon their descendants"?
I'm reading Exodus and this part (34:7) won't stop nagging at me. Curious about different perspectives out there.
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u/ZevSteinhardt Modern Orthodox 11h ago
Rashi, the most famous and revered Jewish Bible commentator, states that it applies only when descendants continue their ancestors' wicked ways.
Zev
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u/getitoffmychestpleas 11h ago
Love your Icelandic horse photo and so many others!!! Thanks for your input on my question
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u/ZevSteinhardt Modern Orthodox 11h ago
Thank you very much, getitoffmycheastpleas, and you're welcome.
Zev
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u/Redqueenhypo make hanukkah violent again 9h ago
I almost forgive the man for making me have to learn that dumb script he made up
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u/ZevSteinhardt Modern Orthodox 9h ago
No need to forgive him. Rashi did not invent what we, today, call Rashi script. It first appeared in the late 1400s.
Zev
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u/tesilab 3h ago
It is a font based on Sephardi cursive Hebrew style. It was the only available alternate typeface to differentiate from block Hebrew letters. Since it was employed to print Rashi's commentaries, on Chumash in 1475. It started to be called Rashi Script. But Rashi's own handwriting was probably more in line with the Ashkenazi cursive style, but we have no surviving samples of it.
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u/mopooooo 11h ago
A sin is a deviation from the path God lays out for you. If you lead your family off the path, it will be felt generations later. There is a way to return to the path, called teshuva
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u/centerofthelotus 11h ago
If you look at things like domestic violence, they tend to get passed down for a couple generations before it’s resolved. I think the idea is Hashim doesn’t destroy but works with the generations until sin is extirpated from the line. Just a thought I’ve had about that line.
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u/Redqueenhypo make hanukkah violent again 9h ago
Some people are technically punished for their ancestors’ choices even if they themselves aren’t responsible. British people don’t get to see any beautiful forests in their homeland because their ancestors razed the entirety of the isles to the ground centuries ago.
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u/ShaggyPal309 9h ago
It's reincarnation. The "fathers" are your previous lifetimes. Same thing with kindness to a thousand generations. pasuk. God is much more rewarding than he is punishing.
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u/ShaggyPal309 9h ago
Rabbeinu Bachya:
Rabbeinu Bahya, Shemot 34:7:5 | The Sefaria Libraryוע"ד הקבלה פוקד עון אבות על בנים זהו סוד העבור כי יפקוד על הרשע פעמים שלש עם גבר ועמו הן רבעים, והדין הזה הוא ענין המחשבות שאמרה התקועית לדוד שהקב"ה מחשב (שמואל ב יד) לבלתי ידח ממנו נדח.
A Kabbalistic approach: The words פוקד עון אבות על בנים are a reference to the mystical dimension of what is known as סוד העבור, “the mystery of the transmigration of souls.” G’d may allocate (impose the need) of a second and even a third repetition of physical life on earth to the soul of the sinner to give him a chance to rehabilitate himself in those lives on earth in different bodies. When combined with the original life on earth this makes a total of up to four lives on earth experienced by some people. This aspect of G’d’s retribution was mentioned by the woman from Tekoah to David (Samuel II 14,14) when she spoke about certain מחשבות, calculations which G’d makes in His administering His Justice. G’d calculates all this in order to ensure that as few souls as possible will be consigned to eternal oblivion.
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u/1000thusername 8h ago
That when one of the members of your family is a creep/criminal, let’s say the neighborhood pervert just for an example, well…. everybody knows your family member for this, and it becomes your legacy because you’re “the pervert’s kid” or “the kid whose dad is in jail,” “the kid with the uncle who touches kids,” or “he comes from a bad family” type stuff. It can tarnish your entire family’s reputation in some situations.
That’s my modern-day and not-directly-based-in-religious-analysis view on how a statement like your example shows itself in today’s society.
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u/getitoffmychestpleas 7h ago
Interesting, because my estranged grandfather was the neighborhood creep, my estranged father lived a completely self-serving life, and now here I am wondering what the heck I'm the one suffering for.
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u/1000thusername 7h ago
I’m sorry :(
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u/getitoffmychestpleas 7h ago
Thank you. I can't help but feel like I'm that 3rd-4th descendant, still carrying burdens that aren't really mine somehow, so the "sins of the fathers" quote resonates with me deeply.
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u/Successful-Money4995 8h ago
אבות אכלו בוסר ושיני בנים תקהינה
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u/getitoffmychestpleas 7h ago
"Fathers ate unripe and the teeth of their sons became dark" :D
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u/Successful-Money4995 7h ago
Fathers are unripe (fruit) and the sons' teeth became obtuse.
Eat food that is not yet ripe is sour and hard and causes teeth to lose their sharpness and become an obtuse angle. 🤷♂️
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u/Sensitive-Inside-250 7h ago
I think of it as Karma.
The sins of the father position the family to suffer the consequences. When a man and father sins and does wrong, it’s not just himself or the victim he’s hurting.
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u/Duck_is_Lord Modern Orthodox 11h ago
My interpretation is similar to what I think the common rabbinic interpretation is, which is that the verse is not talking about punishing innocent descendants for the sins of their forefathers, but that if they choose to continue the sins and misdeeds of their family that they will be punished. Take the cycle of abuse for example. It’s seen that people who grow up abused will sometimes repeat this abuse because it’s what they are taught, but when you’re an adult and can make your own choices, you can put in the work to be a good person and not repeat the bad deeds of your parents