r/Bitcoin • u/Amendxd • 2h ago
Estate lawyers literally have no clue how bitcoin works
Spent the last three weeks trying to set up a basic trust for my family because I don't want my stack lost forever if something stupid happens to me
The amount of "professional" estate attorneys who charge $600/hr and still think bitcoin is a physical coin stored on a usb stick is mind blowing. one guy literally suggested I just sell it all for ETFs so it's "easier to manage on paper". like yeah, defeat the whole purpose of self custody, great idea man.
Eventually just had to route it through dag for the legal structuring because trying to teach a 65 year old lawyer what a seed phrase is was actually draining my soul.
How are you guys handling this? do you just leave a physical treasure map for your kids or what? The legacy legal system is so hopelessly far behind.
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u/tenor_tymir 2h ago
My BTC dies with me, for the greater good.
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u/Electrical_Chard3255 1h ago
My wealth balance thanks you for your sacrifice
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u/tenor_tymir 1h ago
Not dead yet
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u/Electrical_Chard3255 1h ago
Hurry up then :)
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u/tenor_tymir 1h ago
I am striving as hard as I can, casting days from my frame as if they were trivial.
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u/Complete-Beyond8596 1h ago
well no trust needed. setup a multisig with miniscript and time lock and rules about recovery key that you can give your kids while you if alive control the bitcoin
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u/kallebo1337 53m ago
Timelock is something dangerous
I did give some locked ones out, but if we are forced to upgrade network, these can't move.
Better idea is to sign transaction but don't publish it. Time locked. So after day xxx the signed to is valid. They publish and get the coins to the wallet you gave the PK.
If something happens on the way, you can still mve coins any time or rethink decisions
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u/Complete-Beyond8596 49m ago
you can still setup a miniscript with recovery rules and no timelock. in case of wrench attacks similar to france although without timelock you can lose everything
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u/kallebo1337 42m ago
Yes, pro and cons both ways.
I gifted it and said on your 18th bday yolo. If its useless by then; bad luck. If not, good luck
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u/Complete-Beyond8596 40m ago
best you can do is teaching your children what bitcoin represents and don’t even mention the fiat value. bitcoin is not an investment to make more fiat but a tool for the financial freedom to transact
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u/fausthushtra 40m ago
Just have access codes / logins / receipts etc... and an explanation of how to utilize it without inflaming the tax man, and maybe a formal document explaining how/why/who inherits it signed / dated / notarized.
Then you could just have it hidden in a place family knows to check.
Or a safety deposit box and a key, a mini guide to the key, stored with whatever "death package' the family gets.
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u/SoftCheeseBurger 1h ago
Why does he have no clue for suggesting an ETF? Seems fine to me, even more fine with all this ledger shit going on.
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u/Lazy-Effect4222 1h ago
Hedge fund or exchange custody Bitcoin can be confiscated from you without you in anyway in the process. From your wallet not.
I have zero doubt Trump or some future leader could do just this if the value went up enough.
US already did it once for gold.0
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u/creative_usr_name 1h ago
I'm not sure the legal system is "hopelessly far behind" even if these particular lawyers are.
I would like my heirs to get the same stepped up cost basis they'll get for my other investments.
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u/Electrical_Chard3255 1h ago
I built my own inheritance system, it also protects my seed, its also has a 2 of 3 option.
And of course I am not paying some company a yearly subscription for inheritance planning, a copmpany that may not be there in 30 years time.
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u/word-dragon 1h ago
Store your will, seed words on metal, and a letter to your executor explaining how to cash out your coin in a bank safe deposit box. They have procedures for an executor to gain access to it. Cashing it is simpler to distribute to an unknown list of heirs with unknown technical abilities. Any of your heirs that would rather have bitcoin can just go out and buy it with the cash you leave them.
Never, NEVER, leave your seed with a lawyer. Even if you trust your lawyer 100%, she has employees you don’t know, and the rules are kept in cabinets with locks that an 8 year old with a paper clip could open.
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u/Btcyoda 44m ago
Thinking for yourself is literally freedom.
It is a lot of work and prepare to be lonely since the system has no place for us.
I fully understand why so few go that route. Immense rewarding but Immense strain at the same time.
The breaking away cost a lot of energy, I just expect once there more positives come along. Ask me in a few years 🤣
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u/shadyghxst 31m ago
SEED + PASSPHRASE solves this easily.
Keep your Seedphrase in a safe place that is also accessible to your loved one when you’re no more or even when you’re alive if you trust them.
Seedphrase without Passphrase is useless so any party that holds just one part cannot access the btc.
Keep the Passphrase in your Will or a bank deposit box or some other form(you can get creative) that will only be handed over to your person when you are no more.
But in all, you need to show/teach your heir/family how all this works especially ;how to recover, store or sell if they want to.
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u/AgentSmith2077 27m ago
There are companies that deal with this sort of thing. Casa is the one I've heard about. https://casa.io/inheritance
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u/infernal_celery 2h ago
This comes up a lot, and before anyone says “dead man switch”: think through the practicalities of that first and work out all the reasons why that’s not a good idea.
Option 1: identify a specific reason physical safety in your will, leave your seed (or, better yet, a shard of it) in there with decent instructions on how to use the seed / reconstruct the shards. Wills need to have a specific gift in them, so “contents of safe with access code 69420 at 1 Satoshi Ave” will cover it. Then hope the executor of your estate can work this out.
Shard the seed using Shamir’s Secret Sharing. Give one copy to the lawyer, keep one, give one to the person who will inherit (etc). Make sure the quorum is high enough that you can’t get blindly robbed but not so high that they can’t do it without you.
Use a custodian.
Same as 2, but use multi-sig. More risk because this is now joint ownership but depending on the law where you live it might escape inheritance tax.
All options have downsides and none are perfect, so pick your poison.
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u/infernal_celery 2h ago
Missed one: literally give the lawyer the seed or passphrase (not both), pass one over to the family and leave one in the will.
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u/shpeucher 2h ago edited 2h ago
Wouldn’t you just use a will with a dead man switch that triggers on passing to hand down the seed?
Also the guy who suggests the ETF isn’t brain dead. It’s a good suggestion but just doesn’t suit your needs. There’s going to be a big market demand for the ETF’s especially with all the recent hardware device fiascos