r/CharacterRant • • Jul 06 '24

[My Hero Academia spoilers] My Hero Academia's attempt at villain sympathy is so much worse than Naruto's because there's no real ideologies or world at all in My Hero Academy. Spoiler

Naruto's sympathizing with mass murderers like Pain or Obito was pretty bad. Obviously, it's a series aimed at children so you would expect a pro-social message and I'm willing to forgive children's series for wanting to kind of redeem villains (people are too hard on Steven Universe, you can't end a kid's show with executions), but Naruto went way too far with it. There were not enough negative consequences for the villains compared to their actions and they are talked about far too fondly... And Pain's ideology is really stupid too so it's hard to have much sympathy for him compared to Obito or Sasuke.

But the thing is... They had an ideology... They had beliefs. They believed that Naruto's horrifically violent world was too broken to remain in the status quo and that they needed to control it through their own personal violence to ensure a more relative peace.

This is where we get to My Hero Academia in that it doesn't.... Really have a world at all.

Like, there are places and named institutions and some political figures but like... None of that is really relevant to the story. For a comparison to Naruto, Sasuke's whole family getting killed is very relevant to Naruto's world as showing an example of how horrible that world is.

So the villains in MHA are just incredibly unsympathetic because they have no real ideology.

A large part of the ending of MHA is the idea that Tenko/Shigaraki desired to be a "hero to villains" and that this was somehow admirable. But this is REALLY not admirable as basically all the real villains in MHA are pathetic, violent losers and Tenko wanted to inspire them by like... Killing random civilians.

Spinner in the most recent chapter says that Tenko inspired him that he could be part of something bigger... The something bigger being the death of billions of people for no real goal... And like... I don't know, man.

The closest real world parallel to the League of Villains is probably like ISIS, where they didn't really care about anything except killing random people... But most terror groups or violent regimes have SOME goal other than mass murder. It's usually a goal with extremely stupid reasoning or a goal they tell themselves just to feel better about their bloodlust... But there is a goal.

But because there's no real world in MHA, there is no possible ideology that the League of Villains can hate. Re-Destro getting mad about quirk restrictions is like... Something I guess? But we have no real idea about much of anything in the world.

There's like... Anti-mutant discrimination and too much protecting of the images of heroes and a lot of child abuse in MHA. So they could have gone there I guess. But the League of Villains just wants to kill billions of people instead of doing terror attacks and assassinations to try to accomplish these goals.

Outside of a very very very few things, there's just nothing ideological in the series. All for One himself has no ideology whatsoever and he is the cause of most of everything in the series.

So the villains in the series aren't really sympathetic at all because they have nothing they're actually fighting for other than revenge or bloodlust, they're just sad violent freaks. Being a "hero to villains" is actually really bad when all the villains are like this.

(It's also very weird that the main cause of villainy in the series appears to be child abuse and there seems to have been no attempt whatsoever from the heroes to pass more strict child protection laws... Also doesn't seem to have been any attempt pass civil rights laws to better protect people with mutant quirks... But that would involve the government existing basically at all in MHA)

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42

u/Deus3nity Jul 06 '24

Naruto's sympathizing with mass murderers like Pain or Obito was pretty bad. Obviously, it's a series aimed at children so you would expect a pro-social message and I'm willing to forgive children's series for wanting to kind of redeem villains (people are too hard on Steven Universe, you can't end a kid's show with executions), but Naruto went way too far with it. There were not enough negative consequences for the villains compared to their actions and they are talked about far too fondly... And Pain's ideology is really stupid too so it's hard to have much sympathy for him compared to Obito or Sasuke.

  1. Why is it bad that Naruto sympathized with them? They were as much victims of the System as Naruto was. They were taken advantage of by other people and were put on the path they were in.

The whole point of Naruto villans is that they have a point.

The system is rotten and only perpetuates war because it's reliant in it to sustain it.

Nagato and Obito are no worse than the people who serve the villages. People who have killed innocent people, including children.

This is a story about grey morality and you can't even see it.

  1. No, Naruto went far enough. He chose to understand their motives, and give them a chance to make right by their mistakes. He doesn't forgive them, or justifies what they did, but he understands why it happened.

If they don't take that chance, Naruto is willing to put them down.

So the villains in MHA are just incredibly unsympathetic because they have no real ideology.

A large part of the ending of MHA is the idea that Tenko/Shigaraki desired to be a "hero to villains" and that this was somehow admirable. But this is REALLY not admirable as basically all the real villains in MHA are pathetic, violent losers and Tenko wanted to inspire them by like... Killing random civilians.

They do, though.

Through the entirety of MHA and Vigilantes manga we have seen that people with specific quirks are discriminated and ostracized, as they are seen as dangerous or monsters.

Biggest example is Toga.

Toga had a quirk that pushed her to drink blood, and this specific quirk gave her cravings for blood.

This quirk goes against societal norms, and it leads to Toga being hated by everyone. Instead of helping her deal with the problem, the people treated her as a villain.

Then there is the Hero society, we're people like Endeavor is the number two hero, while people like the Crawler had to become a hero in another country to avoid persecution for being a Vigilante and saving people

The world is run on quirks and how people perceive them, and it leads to villans being "heroes" because their quirks are flashy and don't look that dangerous, yet people that could and wanted to be heroes are set on a path to villany.

Spinner in the most recent chapter says that Tenko inspired him that he could be part of something bigger... The something bigger being the death of billions of people for no real goal... And like... I don't know, man.

They did have a goal: chaos. The chaos was the way to destroy the quirk system.

Only the truly good people would be heroes in the chaos. And the "Heroes" that aren't would show their true colors

The league is much like the akatsuki: the consequences of the system in place. They exist because they are what the system created.

You say the government isn't important, but everything we see is an institution that pushes this system forward, we see how the government is.

The closest real world parallel to the League of Villains is probably like ISIS, where they didn't really care about anything except killing random people... But most terror groups or violent regimes have SOME goal other than mass murder. It's usually a goal with extremely stupid reasoning or a goal they tell themselves just to feel better about their bloodlust... But there is a goal.

No. The closest parallel to the league is HAMAS.

Their goal is for people like them to stop being oppressed by the systems in place, even if they have to kill innocents.

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u/MetroidsSuffering Jul 06 '24

Hamas' stated goal is to kill everyone in Israel so that the people of Palestine can have the entire area and because they believe Jews follow a false religion.

With Hamas' potentially real goal being just to rule and control Gaza with them only attacking Israel every so often to maintain political support.

These are very bad goals but are pretty normal for a group of murderers.

Tenko's plan was to kill billions of people because he thought the world sucked... This is not a normal goal.

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u/Deus3nity Jul 06 '24

I already explained in my answer what the goal was.

If you didn't understand it, I have nothing else to say.

-5

u/MetroidsSuffering Jul 06 '24

You do not “end Hero Society” by killing billions of people.

I mean, I guess you literally do but then you’ve also ended… all of society.

7

u/Deus3nity Jul 06 '24

You end it by bringing out the worst in heroes and becoming a threat so big only true heroes are willing to stand up to you

-4

u/MetroidsSuffering Jul 06 '24

That does not make any sense.

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u/Deus3nity Jul 06 '24

How doesn't it? The world of MHA is run by fam, where people are only heroes because of the fame it brings. We're people like Koichi, who couldn't become a hero because he went out of his way to save someone, is treated like a villain by the number 2 hero when he is helping people

This is a world where having a good quirk places you higher in society.

So what do Shigaraki and his team do? Take it to the extreme.

If they are Villans so treating no one can stop them, only good people will be willing to risk their lives to stop them.

There literally is a whole part after the events of last season where hundreds of heroes leave the job because they care more about their lives than anything else.

8

u/KazuyaProta Jul 06 '24

The thing is. If Tenko won, then the good heroes would be all dead anyway

11

u/Deus3nity Jul 06 '24

It would still have achieved the goal of uprooting the old system.

7

u/Sudden_Pop_2279 Jul 06 '24

The world did suck homie. That’s the whole point of the series.

-3

u/ErenYeager600 Jul 06 '24

Mind telling me what point Orochi had. The man experimented on and tortured thousands of children for his own sick pleasure and selfish goals

15

u/Deus3nity Jul 06 '24

And when did Naruto ever excused or forgave Orochimaru?

Orochimaru is alive because he is more useful alive than dead at that point.

And Orochimaru, much like everyone else, was no different from the villages.

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u/ErenYeager600 Jul 06 '24 edited Jul 06 '24

He let the dude attend his wedding

I mean they have Kabuto so what’s the use of of Orochi

There has only been 5 ninja, all of who were missing nin aka not doing shit for the village, that has ever committed the scale of atrocities Orochi committed. He very much so is different from the other villages

5

u/Deus3nity Jul 06 '24

So you are using filler now?

Need I remind you of root? What about The bloody mist? Hinata's and Kushina's kidnaping? How is the Hyuuga seal different than Orochimaru's? What about the smaller villages?

2

u/ErenYeager600 Jul 06 '24

Root has done heinous shit but none at the level of Orochi. Bloody Mist is literally a civil war so what’s ya point there. Yes Kidnapping is definitely on the same level as torturing thousands of children and conducting experiments on there living bodies. The smaller village barely get mention so what exactly is your point there as well

0

u/CussMuster Jul 06 '24

...Kidnapping is not the end of the problems with Root. I would say fundamentally breaking children until they no longer have an identity but are just cold killers like Sai, and the fact that they were paired up with their best friend and forced to kill them with their own hands, is easily on par with most anything Orochimaru has done.

Danzo (and Root) is at least as despicable as Orochimaru, and part of the horror of him is that he is literally both part of the establishment and also the master of several insane conspiracies to keep that establishment in power by any cost whatsoever.

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u/DiktoLays Jul 06 '24

Orochi was never in the wedding. Konohamaru was just collecting messages to complile for a wedding video and yamato stopped him mid message.

Also orochi strolling in konoha is just anime gag shit

Kabuto is busy with orphanage stuff and there is nothing to worry about because of izanami. Meanwhile, orochi still continues in experimenting stuff that is "relatively more humane"

6

u/ErenYeager600 Jul 06 '24

Again I ask why keep Orochi when they have Kabuto. The guy literally killed Leaf’s Kage yet he gets zero meaningful punishment

2

u/venxvan Jul 06 '24

Because Orochimaru is a better asset to them alive than dead. He’s quite literally one of the smartest men in the world and has decided to side with Konoha instead of destroy it. It not like he gets to wander around freely doing insane experiments anymore either.

Kabuto is literally running a shelter for war orphans and found peace so he’s focused on that.

5

u/ErenYeager600 Jul 06 '24

Exactly what use has he served. Other then making snake boy name a single thing he has done for the leaf that couldn’t be done by other scientists. He sided with Konoha after getting betrayed by his disciple. He literally had no other choice so that’s not even something he should be given props for. What kind of consequences to his actions is that. My original question was what kind of consequences did he suffer and it quite blatant that he suffered none

3

u/venxvan Jul 06 '24

Well during the war he helped save the Kage so none of them died, I decided to join their side because he came to realize his approach to achieving his goals is flawed.

Since he helped the alliance win the war, he negotiated a pardon so he could continue performing research to find a new way to achieve his goals. Naruto and everyone basically agreed that as long as he doesn’t do anything fucked up or attack them, and to help them study and understand the Ōtsutsuki .

They agree to all this because Orochimaru isn’t just a scientist. He is THE SCIENTIST.

2

u/ErenYeager600 Jul 06 '24

Again he didn’t have any other logical choice. It was either join the alliance or get Mind screwed so again I’m not gonna give him props for that.

Naruto just gonna ignore how he’s the reason for Hiruzen death. Yeah villains totally suffer consequences in Naruto

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