Trump Jr's wedding was paid in part by a Russian oligarch named Umar Kremlev that is close to Putin. Because he is a friend of Trump's son apparently. Even though his brother Eric says he never heard of him. Any thoughts on this?

[u/ggRavingGamer]

https://www.propublica.org/article/donald-trump-jr-wedding-bankrolled-russian-oligarch-umar-kremlev-putin

And ofc, it should be noted that a Russian oligarch, particularly one that lives in Russia is in effect a Putin oligarch. Nobody has big money in Russia without Kremlin approval. Also, as per reports there was an entire group of Russians, apart from the other guests, speaking Russian. And the island and the fireworks being paid by Kremlev has been confirmed by Jr himself btw, it's not speculation.

Personally I think it's insane. I also think Trump was told of all this and chose not to attend his own son's wedding. Cause it would have looked insane.

But I am really curious as to what you think of this.

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[u/rlbigfish]

My thoughts are it's been 10 years and it's time to give up the ghost.

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[u/GoldenEagle828677]

I have a question of my own. How is it that every Russian is "close to Putin."? Putin really has a lot of close friends!

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[u/_kraftdinner → u/GoldenEagle828677]

The guy has been basically placed in his positions by Putin. At one point was also the member of a government afffiliated biker gang? Which sounds lowkey kind of cool I want to know more…hah. The article is actually really good imo, after reading it I felt satisfied that they had explained his connections to Putin.

[u/CollapsibleFunWave → u/GoldenEagle828677]

The oligarchs in Russia run various aspects of the government.

[u/GoldenEagle828677 → u/CollapsibleFunWave]

They run their businesses. Anyway, Putin doesn't seem to be close to anyone, despite all these claims.

[u/CollapsibleFunWave → u/GoldenEagle828677]

They run their businesses

They also run the military and intelligence agencies. That's one reason Russia struggled so much with the initial Ukraine invasion. An oligarch was embezzling money from the military and it was in poor shape.

Putin doesn't seem to be close to anyone, despite all these claims.

It depends on what you mean by close. They all work under Putin and take his orders ever since he had one of them tortured to death when he rose to power.

[u/GoldenEagle828677 → u/CollapsibleFunWave]

Well is Umar Kremlev running the government, or involved in military and intelligence agencies?

Is he partying with Putin on his yacht?

I'm guessing not, since the only accusation against him is that he's "close to Putin" which is really vague. Every Russian with more than a dollar is described as close to Putin.

[u/CollapsibleFunWave → u/GoldenEagle828677]

Have you googled him? Here's a snippet from a newspaper in France from 2022:

As Mr. Putin carried out his inspection, a short-haired colossus escorted him in a friendly manner. Umar Kremlev, 40 years old, is entitled to display familiarity with the master of the Kremlin. A member of the order of St. George, Russia's highest military distinction

[u/GoldenEagle828677 → u/CollapsibleFunWave]

And you couldn't produce a link? Well I found it. And it doesn't say he has any military experience. Same with his wiki page, he's head of the International Boxing Association and owns a car dealership. Zero mention of any military service.

It says he has "ties to Putin" but there's no evidence he is friends with Putin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_Kremlev#Career

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/sports/article/2022/12/11/putin-s-ally-running-world-amateur-boxing-looks-to-uphold-russian-soft-power_6007349_9.html

I don't see anything really wrong here, although if I was Don Jr I would pay Kremlev back every cent to avoid any appearance of influence.

[u/CollapsibleFunWave → u/GoldenEagle828677]

In this context, "close" to Putin doesn't mean they're hanging out on weekends.

I would have read "ties" to Putin to mean the same thing.

[u/rcglinsk]

https://www.propublica.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/DonJr-Kremlev_IBA_34dd69.jpg?resize=1024,682

I think they look like friends.

[u/tnitty → u/rcglinsk]

A formal handshake is all that it takes? I've shaken hands with many people. I wouldn't consider even a small fraction friends.

In any case, that misses the point. Being on the Kremlin payroll is really the point. If you're not familiar with the psychology of persuasion, "reciprocity" is one of the fundamental principles.. The Kremlin understands this quite well, no doubt.

[u/rcglinsk → u/tnitty]

It's a photo op with a layer of awkwardness that to me makes it look like they know each other. Trump Jr. grew up with a deadbeat/absentee father. The stuff about him watching a lot of boxing as a kid checks out (trying to learn about masculinity in an environment without a dad). Jr. is also into hunting. Him and Kremlev probably get along well talking about boxing and hunting all the time.

I mean, do you think Jr. has a lot of friends?

On the subject of reciprocity, The Trumps have breached every single contract they ever signed. Does that not factor in here?

[u/tnitty → u/rcglinsk]

The Trumps have breached every single contract they ever signed. Does that not factor in here?

They have never breached jack shite with Putin. Like all bullies, Trump only punches down. He wouldn’t dare cross his handlers and his buddies in the Kremlin. Here’s an actual photo of me waiting for Trump to stand up to Putin.

Even if you’re right, that just makes it worse. Who the frack hangs out with a Kremlin oligarch? If you’re not already a top tier corrupt person when you start hanging around such people, you’re definitely corrupted pretty quickly. This guy isn’t leading his church choir.

[u/rcglinsk → u/tnitty]

Who the frack hangs out with a Kremlin oligarch?

Losers with a lot of money who can't make other friends; who can't get an American girl and have to get a bride from Eastern Europe. Guys who are such a black sheep in their family that their dad skips their wedding.

[u/davida_usa → u/rcglinsk]

According to reports, they met two years ago but Kremlev doesn't speak English. As friends, what do you think they do other than shake hands in front of cameras?

[u/rcglinsk → u/davida_usa]

Does Kremlev speak Czech?

[u/ItIsNotAManual1984]

Clearly strange. As article acknowledged the amount in question is very small relative to Trump Jr’s wealth. I see two possibilities

1) it is complete BS. propublica is known for hit pieces which turn out to be wrong ( and a lot which turn out to be correct)

2) it is an incredibly poor judgment on Trump Jr’s part.

[u/TheQuietOutsider → u/ItIsNotAManual1984]

at what point does the family stop getting a pass on their collective "poor judgement"?

[u/ItIsNotAManual1984 → u/TheQuietOutsider]

Well democrats had a chance in 2024 and they blew it

[u/russmcruss52 → u/ItIsNotAManual1984]

Are conservatives incapable of holding the Trump's accountable as well? Y'all had your chance to nip this in the bud during that primary season. Since conservatives overwhelmingly supported Trump in the primaries, I'd say cons bear more responsibility for the actions of Trump than the Dems do.

The Dems being completely incompetent (which is 100% true) doesn't negate who ACTUALLY voted this dude into office.

[u/ItIsNotAManual1984 → u/russmcruss52]

Actually no. After Jan 6 I was of position of never voting for Trump again and then democrats started lawfare and opened the border. All of the sudden he seems a much smaller of two evils. I know quite a few people who would have not voted for him if Democrats did not perverted laws to go after him

[u/russmcruss52 → u/ItIsNotAManual1984]

That addresses grievances between Trump and the Dems, but doesn't really address Trump in the GOP primary.

[u/ItIsNotAManual1984 → u/russmcruss52]

He was the most aggressive anti-illegal immigration during primary as well.

[u/TheQuietOutsider → u/ItIsNotAManual1984]

that doesnt answer my question though, that is deflection. im asking you, as a self-identifying conservative.

[u/ItIsNotAManual1984 → u/TheQuietOutsider]

Can you explain what do you mean by “getting a pass”? Not voting for Trump? Well he is not running again and I was more than willing to vote for someone else but as I said Democrats blew it. Going to prison? Last time I checked “bad judgment” is not a crime. Being impeached? Do you really prefer JD Vance?

[u/TheQuietOutsider → u/ItIsNotAManual1984]

getting a pass is everyone (both parties, independents, nonvoters) looking the other way at all of this families bribes, crimes and open corruption. they truly are transparent about it, as they told us they would be. during the 2024 election there were other options right? I personally liked Jill stein, but can I assume you to be a party loyalist, hence the Trump vote?

no, bad judgement is not a crime, but it is a slippery slope. impeachment will do nothing without criminal conviction, weve been down that road twice now. no, I don't prefer vance nor think he's a fit leader. it's a real catch 22, but the voters have spoken and this is where we are.

[u/ItIsNotAManual1984 → u/TheQuietOutsider]

I am not party loyalist and after Jan 6 I did not think I would ever vote for Trump. And then Democrats opened the border. And started lawfare. While I would vote for anyone who would close the border and deport illegals, many of my friends voted for Trump because of lawfare. You may agree or disagree with going after Trump once his first term was over, but it did bring a lot of people to vote for him.

[u/TheQuietOutsider → u/ItIsNotAManual1984]

so was jan 6 wrong or not? that was a big part of the perceived lawfare- an unprecedented offense so large that it got him impeached.

if yes, does the wrongness of an insurrection weigh less than the other voting options you had during the 2024 election cycle?

[u/ItIsNotAManual1984 → u/TheQuietOutsider]

Was Jan 6 wrong - yes. Was it insurrection - IMO no. I see it as a demonstration turning into riot. Was Trump wrong not getting on TV once Capitol was breached and telling people to go home - yes. And if that would be the only part of lawfare I could have stomach it. I would think it is stupid of democrats to open that pandora box but at least it would be logical. No. democrats had to find 4 cases most announced within a few weeks of each other. It was very clear that the strategy was : find something anything to change Trump with. If we can get one thing stick he will not get elected. They were not investigating crimes. They were investigating a person and trying to find crimes.

Now is lawfare worse that Trump’s behavior during Jan 6? As I said I supported Trump because of open borders policy ( which I do think is worse than Jan 6) so lawfare was not deciding factor. I do think lawfare had to be stopped and to Trump’s credit ( and my surprise) he did not go after any high ranking officials in Biden administration

[u/TheQuietOutsider → u/ItIsNotAManual1984]

I appreciate all of your responses, you have very nuanced takes on things. may I ask one last question-

you referred to j6 as a demonstration turned riot, do you view BLM protests the same?

[u/davida_usa → u/ItIsNotAManual1984]

Trump Jr.'s bride has publicly acknowledged it's true, so #2 must apply.

[u/DeathToFPTP → u/ItIsNotAManual1984]

I would remind people Trump Sr was so cheap he used the Trump charity to pay his sons boy scout dues (iirc)

[u/WestCoastCompanion]

The president said Putin is his friend and Canadians are very nasty people… we’re definitely living in bizzaro world lol

[u/Dangerous_Moment5774 → u/WestCoastCompanion]

I mean, Canadians do drink maple syrup and eat poutine, so they're are pretty nasty 😂

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[u/WestCoastCompanion]

Crazy work lol

[u/AskConservatives-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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Posts and comments should be in good faith. Please review our good faith guidelines for the sub.

[u/hungoverlord → u/[deleted]]

Do we need to live in a place or personally know specific people in order to know that something may have happened?

[u/Shop-S-Marts]

I've never heard of him either. He's probably telling the truth

[u/DunkBird → u/Shop-S-Marts]

He's in the wedding photo and they already admitted he attended and paid for it.

If you don't know anything about the situation how are you saying he's probably telling the truth?

[u/Shop-S-Marts → u/DunkBird]

If I don't know anything about the guy, it's reasonable to assume other don't also.

[u/sparkster777 → u/Shop-S-Marts]

Why would you knowing about him have any bearing whatsoever on Eric Trump knowing about him?

[u/Shop-S-Marts → u/sparkster777]

Was the post about Eric? I thought it was about Jr?

[u/sparkster777 → u/Shop-S-Marts]

The end of the post says Eric never heard of him. I assumed that who you were referring to.

[u/Shop-S-Marts → u/sparkster777]

Ohhh. So it's not even the kid who's birthday was paid by the Russian guy? Yeah, I don't know all my brothers acquaintances either, so its even easier for me to believe Eric didn't know someone jr did.

[u/DunkBird → u/Shop-S-Marts]

Have you even read anything at all on this or are you just running on vibes?

[u/Shop-S-Marts → u/DunkBird]

I wasn't aware there needed to be homework involved. I just answered the question asked

[u/sparkster777 → u/Shop-S-Marts]

I am sorry, but are you reading the title? The Russian oligarch paid for Don Jr's island wedding.

[u/Shop-S-Marts → u/sparkster777]

Right. Jrs. Party had a donor. Eris says he doesn't know the guy. I don't know the russian guy, neither do I know my brothers every associate. It's possible for Eric to not know the Russian guy. That's my feelings on the matter, for the 9,000th time.

[u/DunkBird → u/Shop-S-Marts]

You thought it was a kids birthday party 45 minutes ago, don't go acting like you had a well formed opinion lmao

[u/Aschebescher → u/Shop-S-Marts]

This is an honest answer and actually says a lot.

[u/SomeMaleIdiot]

The trump family has been in bed with the Russians since… his entire presidency? I remember when the Russian influence was passed off as a hoax. People to this day (including mainstream pundits) have decided to go with the hoax narrative.

[u/ChickenMarsala4500 → u/SomeMaleIdiot]

Who passed it off as a hoax? As I recall the findings of the investigation into Russian interference of the 2016 election, (led by Trump appointed Robert Mueller) found that Russia did interfere in the election in favor of Trump. They did not find any evidence of the Trump team working with any Russian actors.

That is the opposite of Russian influence being a hoax. They did influence the election and Trumps FBI confirmed it. They just did so independently rather than in cahoots with the Trump campaign, or more accurately there is no proof of them working in cahoots with the Trump campaign.

[u/GoldenEagle828677 → u/ChickenMarsala4500]

They did not find any evidence of the Trump team working with any Russian actors.

Which was the hoax.

[u/blue-blue-app → u/[deleted]]

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[u/One_Fix5763 → u/ChickenMarsala4500]

Yeah, and China and Iran are interfering in the mid terms as well. Every country interferes with the help of bots and now we have AI agents doing it more effectively.

Russia wasn't changing votes - because that's what the left was living on.

Mueller emphatically exonerated Trump on the core conspiracy charge: you know, the thing that supposedly impelled the creation of Special Counsel in the first place. But if it makes you feel better, go ahead and continue living in your collusion fairy tale

[u/magnabonzo → u/One_Fix5763]

Mueller declares his Russia report did not exonerate Trump.

The Mueller Report explicitly stated that it did not exonerate Trump. Mueller wrote that if the team had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, they would have stated so. Instead, the report detailed multiple actions by Trump capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement.

Mueller clarified in his Congressional Testimony that his team did not reach a formal determination on whether Trump committed a crime, because charging him was legally not an option under the DOJ policy. Source

The investigation did not establish sufficient evidence to prove a criminal conspiracy or coordination between the Trump campaign and Russia during the 2016 election. However, Mueller noted that Russia interfered in the election to benefit Trump and that the campaign welcomed this help, though it did not rise to the level of a criminal conspiracy. Source

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[u/Saint_Steve → u/One_Fix5763]

Mueller very specifically did not exonerate Trump. He also very specifically did not investigate "collusion" because that is not a crime. 

What his report concluded was that his investigation was unable to establish an explicit quid-pro-quo agreement between the trump campain and russia, in part because his investigation was stymied by people like Paul Manafort and Trump himself, but did find that the two clearly worked in concert to get Trump elected. 

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[u/One_Fix5763 → u/[deleted]]

He was pissed off Mueller ran a fake investigation and ultimately brought no charges- wasted so much time

[u/superfahd → u/One_Fix5763]

you're all over the place in your views.

you're saying that the investigation was fake (it was not)

but the fake investigation totally exhonerated Trump (it did not)

except exhoneration can only be done by a jury

Stick to one lane!

[u/nucumber → u/One_Fix5763]

Mueller emphatically exonerated Trump on the core conspiracy charge

Mueller's investigation "identified numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump campaign", and determined that the Trump campaign "expected it would benefit electorally" from Russian hacking efforts. However, the federal charge of conspiracy requires an explicit statement of agreement, not just an mutual understanding, which Mueller said he was unable to establish

Seems a stretch to call that an exoneration but maybe that's just me.

[u/One_Fix5763 → u/nucumber]

"Exoneration" is done by the jury. When there are no charges, the case never reaches a jury of a court. So, it's irrelevant what Mueller thought.

By that same logic, Robert Hurr also didn't exonerate Biden. Also Jack Smith.

Mueller found facebook bots manipulating things against Hillary ? Well, that's on Obama's FBI and Comey.

[u/nucumber → u/One_Fix5763]

Exoneration is only after conviction and by a judge

Of course, Mueller didn't charge trump with conspiracy because of the DOJ policy against charging a sitting president, which is where impeachment comes into play

[u/One_Fix5763 → u/nucumber]

Mueller didn't charge Trump because he had nothing to charge him for. He found no collusion, he found no obstruction.

He didn't bring series of indictments - he had nothing. So to save face he went with the nonsensical "DOJ policy rule".

[u/Dinero-Roberto → u/One_Fix5763]

Why would he trust Putin?

[u/ParkingVampire → u/One_Fix5763]

Rep. Jerry Nadler: "Did you actually totally exonerate the president?"

Robert Mueller: No.

[u/One_Fix5763 → u/ParkingVampire]

Rep. Mike Johnson: "Did you actually totally exonerate president Biden?"

Robert Hurr: No.

[u/superfahd → u/One_Fix5763]

whataboutism

[u/marshall19 → u/One_Fix5763]

This is your response? Everything you said got slapped down hard and you shift the topic. That's funny.

[u/One_Fix5763 → u/marshall19]

I'll repeat this again.

"Exoneration" is done by the jury.

When there are no charges, the case never reaches a jury of a court. So, it's irrelevant what Mueller thought.

By that same logic, Robert Hurr also didn't exonerate Biden. Same for Jack Smith.

[u/marshall19 → u/One_Fix5763]

You're the one who introduced the term 'exonerated'.

[u/ParkingVampire → u/One_Fix5763]

Great. Do another investigation into corruption. And another one after that. What's the issue? 

[u/blue-blue-app → u/[deleted]]

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The purpose of this sub is to ask conservatives. Comments between users without conservative flair are not allowed (except inside of our Weekly General Chat thread). Please keep discussions focused on asking conservatives questions and understanding conservatism. Thank you.

[u/One_Fix5763 → u/SomeMaleIdiot]

It's still a hoax 

[u/marshall19 → u/One_Fix5763]

People in Trump's orbit went to jail. I love how that equals 'hoax' to you.

[u/One_Fix5763 → u/marshall19]

They went to jail for things that were completely irrelevant to the premise of the investigation.

Paul Manafort went for tax fraud of 2005. Completely irrelevant.

It was just a fishing expedition, but nothing related to Russia.

[u/IcyTransportation961 → u/SomeMaleIdiot]

Since the 80s, he returned to America and immediately began spouting their propaganda and talking about running for president

Its been decades,  nothing was hidden,  yet yall failed an open book test

[u/One_Fix5763 → u/IcyTransportation961]

Nonsensical. People are allowed to like Russia 

[u/Jesse-359 → u/One_Fix5763]

Sure, and we're allowed to condemn them for it.

Especially the President.

[u/IcyTransportation961 → u/One_Fix5763]

Nonsensical.  No one said people can't like Russia. 

[u/Toobendy → u/SomeMaleIdiot]

Not a hoax, Trump’s wife confirmed it.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-jr-umar-kremlev-bettina-trump-wedding-russia-54b191b7d19ae09ab599ef5966523ab4

[u/soulwind42]

No clue, sounds like it merits some investigating. Its certainly a worrisome connection.

[u/marshall19 → u/soulwind42]

Can you think of a potential scenario where this would be appropriate?

[u/soulwind42 → u/marshall19]

Appropriate, no, but i think of several where its tolerable. Influence goes both ways. Doesn't make me like it, and it should absolutely be investigated.

[u/davida_usa → u/soulwind42]

Attorney General Todd Blanche was asked about investigating this at today's press conference. His answer to literally every question about investigating alleged crimes he declined comment or said he couldn't talk about ongoing investigations. When asked about this issue, however, he seemed to me as stumbling over a "there's nothing here" answer: https://youtu.be/FOt9mvozzP8?si=Q8XU6P0bu97mj-oi

[u/StedeBonnet1]

No biggie. He is a friend of Don Jr. Friends with big money give big wedding presents. No connection to the President.

[u/ParkingVampire → u/StedeBonnet1]

This seems like the opposite position you all had for Hunter Biden. What has changed?

[u/URABrokenRecord → u/StedeBonnet1]

The's the president's son out of his own moral compass should have said no. It's not like he's hurting for money. 

[u/monoglot → u/StedeBonnet1]

Do you think Don Jr., who also has a lot of money, is in the habit of giving big gifts to this oligarch too, or do the gifts just flow one direction?

[u/drtywater → u/StedeBonnet1]

How would it compare to Hunter Biden?

[u/russmcruss52 → u/StedeBonnet1]

And how is that mindset any different than Hunter Biden'a Burisma dealings?

"No biggie. He's a coworker of Hunter. No connection to the president."

[u/StedeBonnet1 → u/russmcruss52]

The difference is that buying fireworks is a one time gift. Paying someone $80,000 per month to do nothing is a bribe.

[u/AskConservatives-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Removed: Treat other users with civility and respect.

Personal attacks and stereotyping are not allowed.

[u/h34dyr0kz → u/StedeBonnet1]

What was the quid pro quo? Seeing as hunter didn't even have a role in government?

What was the 80,000 bribe a bribe to do?

[u/neovb → u/StedeBonnet1]

No, he rented out an exclusive private island in the Bahamas where all the guests stayed, funded two nights of post-wedding celebrations, and also paid for the fireworks. That a lot more than "wedding presents." That's hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Even if there is no connection to the president (and that logically seems almost impossible considering the president must have known about it), the appearance of impropriety is pretty bad here.

There is almost a zero chance that conservatives would be okay with the child of a Democrat president being in the same situation. Kind of like when conservatives were up in arms that Hunter received a 2.8 carat diamond from a Chinese oligarch in 2017 (when Biden wasnt even in government), and I think it's very reasonable to assume that was worth substantially less than what Don Jr. received. But we all know Hunter was "selling access" right?

[u/zimbledwarf → u/StedeBonnet1]

What? Bribes don't have to be recurring to be a bribe. The intent behind the payment is what makes them a bribe, not how often or how much it is.

The company I work for could find things as small as paying for a single $25 meal as a bribe.

Edit: fixed spelling

[u/StedeBonnet1 → u/zimbledwarf]

OK so what is the quid pro quo? Don Jr has no responsibility in government.

[u/drtywater → u/StedeBonnet1]

So Hunter Biden wasn't a problem them?

[u/julius_sphincter → u/StedeBonnet1]

Do you intentionally just shut down your own cognitive dissidence in these discussions or are you actually just never capable of looking at something negative related to Trump with the same lens you do Democrats?

[u/AndrewRP2 → u/StedeBonnet1]

Hunter wasn’t in government either and Biden wasn’t even the President and there were multiple hearings. I believe there were calls for Biden’s impeachment. Can you explain why this is no big deal and Biden’s conduct was impeachable other than, “business?”

[u/zimbledwarf → u/StedeBonnet1]

I'm not saying whether there was or wasn't in this case, just that your bribery definition is quite wrong.

Whether or not you having an official government role doesnt matter when you're close family with the highest elected official that sets policy. Going through family connections is one of the common ways to circumvent direct association.

Don Jr. has also invested/become partners in companies (Kalshi, Vulcan Elements, 1789 Capital, etc) that have then gone on to secure deals with the government. Theres definitely significant involvement between him and the government.

Don Jr has no responsibility in government.

Hunter Biden had no official in the federal government either, but you still bring up bribery concerns towards him.

If there was some Quid Pro Quo here, my speculation would be toward the recent push for Ukraine to stop targeting Russian energy.

[u/BestJayceEUW → u/StedeBonnet1]

What responsibility did Hunter have in government?

[u/Magsays → u/StedeBonnet1]

This is an unbelievable take lol. A Putin Oligarch pays for the extravagant wedding of a sitting president’s son and it’s “no biggie”. What happened to drain the swamp?

Can we not see the hypocrisy here? It just blows my mind how we can contort our morals and views to fit in our comfort box rather than feeling the slight discomfort of looking at situations critically.

This has the stamp of an ideology centric self. When we make an our ideological group so connected to our identity we tend to contort reality to fit that ideology instead of changing our ideology to fit reality.

Can we honestly say this would be the same conclusion if the R and the D were switched?

[u/StedeBonnet1 → u/Magsays]

He didn't pay for the entire wedding. He paid for some fireworks and housing rentals.

[u/marshall19 → u/StedeBonnet1]

He paid for 2 out of the 3 days of the wedding and the fireworks. Making it sound like a light wedding contribution is inaccurate in both dollar amount and percentage.

[u/nucumber → u/StedeBonnet1]

He rented an island

[u/Magsays → u/StedeBonnet1]

It was hundreds of thousands of dollars..

[u/Beneficial_Wear_7630]

These bloggers are getting too desperate

[u/Beneficial_Wear_7630 → u/[deleted]]

??

[u/RatOnASinkingShip]

I think it shows how fucked and biased wikipedia is when it comes to attacking Trump.

[u/marshall19 → u/RatOnASinkingShip]

The people involved have already admitted to this, it baffles be when people like this reject reality when there isn't even denial from the people involved. Unbelievable.

[u/Jesse-359 → u/RatOnASinkingShip]

When did wikipedia enter into this conversation?

[u/detail_giraffe → u/RatOnASinkingShip]

I'm confused, how is wikipedia involved?

[u/Tenchi2020 → u/RatOnASinkingShip]

Donald Trump Junior And and his wife confirmed that Russian oligarchs paid for the parties at the wedding which amounted to hundreds of thousands of dollars

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-jr-umar-kremlev-bettina-trump-wedding-russia-54b191b7d19ae09ab599ef5966523ab4

[u/mazamundi → u/RatOnASinkingShip]

wikipedia?

[u/thoughtsnquestions]

It certainly seems strange, and I'm not sure the motive for this Oligarch to pay for the fireworks and some rental costs... but realistically, if this was a bribe, paying for some fireworks is inconsequential for the Trump's.

Nonetheless, it is strange and the type of thing that should result in an investigation to see if wrongdoing occurred.

Typically politicians avoid even any appearance of shady money situations, so even if all legit and nothing shady going on, I think the shift Trump has made to normalise money situations that raise eyebrows is a mistake.

[u/Jesse-359 → u/thoughtsnquestions]

We usually call it 'opening the door to rampant government corruption' or 'selling out our country to the highest bidder', or 'illegally enriching themselves by openly abusing our country's highest office' - but sure, we can also say that it 'raises eyebrows'.

[u/thoughtsnquestions → u/Jesse-359]

You don't known that, you're suspicious of that, hence raised eyebrows, hence why an investigation should occur but it could be all above board, they could be genuinely friends with no involvement from a foreign government

[u/Jesse-359 → u/thoughtsnquestions]

Uh, if you are in a high office or have influence over such an office, then the acceptance of gifts of any significant scale is at a minimum a major breach of public trust - that's regardless of the law. It begs the assumption that there is a quid pro quo, and it should always be assumed that a gift of substance to a person in any high position is intended to curry favor in any future dealings.

If someone wanted to get something nice for Jared on his wedding, they could have commissioned a painting of the couple or something that didn't have massive $$$ attached. Anyone with any sense of propriety would have done something like that.

But of course, that's not how Trump himself operates. He's transactional, he wants to be bribed, and he makes that super unmistakably clear in every one of his public interactions with other heads of state. So yeah, it was a gift to curry political favor. I think that's an inescapable conclusion.

I mean, the Qatari's gifted him a Jumbo Jet for christ's sake - can you imagine any other US president - any of them - accepting that kind of gift from a foreign power? (and no, the fact that it was technically gifted to the US in no way ameliorates it, given that it is an asset that is strictly designated for the personal use of the president himself).

[u/thoughtsnquestions → u/Jesse-359]

The acceptance of gifts of any significant scale is at a minimum a major breach of public trust

Should always be assumed that a gift of substance to a person in any high position is intended to curry favor

Trump Jr, on his wedding day, received countless extremely expensive gifts.

[u/johnnybiggles → u/thoughtsnquestions]

Which would make his wedding gifts even more questionable, if not the entirety of the wedding, itself, would it not?

[u/insideyelling → u/thoughtsnquestions]

The odd thing though is if it is inconsequential for the Trumps then why even accept it in the first place? They have billions of dollars and have made even more in the past few years, why would they need to accept what is effectively pocket change to them? It just seems so strange on so many levels.

[u/marshall19 → u/[deleted]]

...Don's wife on Instagram confirms it "...Umar very generously hosted two incredible nights of celebrations..."

Are you still going to deny the credibility?

[u/kyew → u/[deleted]]

Because competing news orgs will now be double-checking ProPublica's sources, and will tell us if they don't pan out. ProPublica of course knows this, so we look at how often they have passed this test before and see that they're confident this claim will hold up too.

[u/Big-Soup74 → u/kyew]

who are the sources?

[u/DayGeckoArt → u/Big-Soup74]

The sources are anonymous, that means the public isn’t told who they are but the newspaper verified them. I’ve been an anonymous source.

[u/Big-Soup74 → u/DayGeckoArt]

So how will competing news orgs double check the sources like kyew said?

[u/kyew → u/Big-Soup74]

By independently finding people who can corroborate or reject what the anonymous sources said. They may ask the second orgs to keep them anonymous too, and they may or may not turn out to be the same people.

[u/Big-Soup74 → u/kyew]

But no guarantee the competing orgs name their sources either?

[u/kyew → u/Big-Soup74]

No, no guarantee of that either. I don't know what to tell you if that's still a problem. You can decide for yourself to trust the media at large or not.

At some point you can't keep checking receipts forever, you'll have to take someone's word for something. Pick one media organization you do trust, see who they think aren't liars, and follow the trust chain to see if it includes ProPublica.

[u/Big-Soup74 → u/kyew]

yeah I mean I think its fair to trust "sources familiar with the situation" less than named sources. Ive also never even heard of propublica lol

[u/kyew → u/Big-Soup74]

Yeah skepticism is healthy, but we also need to trust at some point. If they named a guy we've never heard of who doesn't have a strong online presence, would that really change much? We can also decide if the claims sound in-character for the people they're talking about and look harder when they don't, and IMHO this story doesn't sound out of character.

[u/math-yoo → u/[deleted]]

ProPublica is a highly credible and reliable independent news organization. Certainly, media oversight suggests it has a left bias, but their investigative journalism is well respected. To be honest, these days a left bias is any newsroom that dares to ask Trump a question. So what do you want, freedom of the press or glazing of Trump 24/7?

[u/GentleGerbil → u/[deleted]]

What would you accept as credible evidence?

[u/Big-Soup74 → u/GentleGerbil]

actually naming the people is a good start

[u/magnabonzo → u/Big-Soup74]

Name: Bettina Trump.

i.e. Don Jr's wife.

"Our dear friend Umar very generously hosted two incredible nights of celebrations for us AFTER our wedding." CBS News

According to ProPublica, Kremlev's funding covered massive expenses, including renting a private island for the reception, guest accommodations costing $100,000 per night, and a $70,000 fireworks display.

[u/Big-Soup74 → u/magnabonzo]

Did you have a question?

[u/magnabonzo → u/Big-Soup74]

You said

actually naming people is a good start

Now that I've named someone and you have credible evidence, does it change your mind about whether it is appropriate?

[u/Big-Soup74 → u/magnabonzo]

I don’t recall saying it was either appropriate or inappropriate

[u/magnabonzo → u/Big-Soup74]

OK, sorry, genuinely didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

Do you think it's appropriate? Or do you think it's not a big deal? Or something else?

[u/Big-Soup74 → u/magnabonzo]

Probably inappropriate

[u/GentleGerbil → u/Big-Soup74]

Do you think journalism as a field has no credibility when granting sources anonymity?

[u/Big-Soup74 → u/GentleGerbil]

its certainly less

[u/GentleGerbil → u/Big-Soup74]

So going back to this article, if some journalism is credible when using anonymous sources, how do you know this one isn’t?

[u/Big-Soup74 → u/GentleGerbil]

when did I say only some journalism is credible when using anonymous sources?

[u/GentleGerbil → u/Big-Soup74]

You implied it in your previous comment. If that wasn’t what you meant, all good and have a good one

[u/Big-Soup74 → u/GentleGerbil]

Sorry about that, my comment meant news/reports with anonymous sources is less credible than news/reports who do name their source

[u/GentleGerbil → u/Big-Soup74]

Ah, yes. Understood. I don’t think anyone can argue against that

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[u/userunknowned → u/[deleted]]

Donald Trump Jr and Bettina Trump say Putin ally paid for some wedding festivities as a 'gift' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cmqjkg121kr9o

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[u/ggRavingGamer → u/[deleted]]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/donald-trump-jr-russian-oligarch-umar-kremlev-ties-putin-wedding-celeb-rcna597735

Because again, Trump Jr. HIMSELF acknowledged this.